This page contains the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board during January, 2000. They are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific topics, use the "find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
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Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, TX Time: 2000-01-01 06:36:00 Comments: Happy New Year everyone! I guess the site is still up and running! I wonder if the Sundazed Box Tops reissues are going to contain anything new or remixes? |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-01 23:59:27 Comments: WELCOME TO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! I have some requests. Now that it's 1900, I was wondering if any BSN members may have found these hits: "My Wild Irish Rose", "Sweet Rosie O'Grady" or "Break The News To Mother" by George J. Gaskin issued in the new wax disc format? My copies are on cylinder and I would only like to upgrade if there is a definite sound improvement. Massie? Daugherty? Bytlephan? Anyone? Psst. I'm not sure if this is true or not or just something Luke mentioned in a recent Western Union telegram to me...but you know the current march hit "Stars And Stripes Forever" by The Sousa Band (Columbia #532)? I've recently heard that Tom Moulton has done a synch-up which gives this march a much fuller, multi-dimensional sound if you play it through a left and right horn simultaneously. I just wonder if it sounds "gimmicky". On a related musical note, I just purchased a used cylinder version of "Cornfield Melody" by The Haydn Quartet in the bargain bin at Woolworths. Cheap - 99 cents. This is a good find since this song according to Whitburn only went as high as #4. But I do like to collect mid-chart hits! Problem is, the cylinder is quite noisy. Mike Callahan made reference to this in his first newsletter (BSN #1) by giving it a low "C" with the comment "sounds like a noisy cylinder." (But Mike, it is!) So my question: is there any device available to remove all the noise? How about it T.D.? Well, I've saved the best for last. Now this is only a rumor. You didn't hear it from me. But the Edison masters currently owned by Allyn Kline have been promised to come out next year in 1901 on wax! You will remember that all of the these hits were once out on cylinder, but when the new wax disc format recently became available, this material was suspiciously never reissued due to some legal matters. To those of us who prefer the sound on wax discs (and judging by recent posts, most BSN readers do), this will be a great addition to us wax fanatics' collections. Oh, lastly... I've had the premiere edition of "Both Sides Now" for a year now. Does anyone know when M. Callahan Sr. plans to issue edition #2 ? |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 08:38:07 Comments: Marty, I'm sure you meant 2000 and 2001 for all date mentions. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-02 11:10:04 Comments: Marty, I realize your last post was tongue-in-cheek, but for those who might be interested in taking the matter seriously, this is how it might be done: You may want to modify your cylinder player and install a Stanton 681EEE with a D6827 stylus. Wire the pickup for out-of-phase mono (the cylinders have vertical modulation, rather than the lateral modulation used on conventional mono discs), then connect the output of the pickup to a Hi-Z microphone input. Don't use a phono input, as the cylinders don't use RIAA compensation. Connect the output of the microphone preamp through a Burwen DNF-1201A Dynamic Noise Filter and you should get a halfway decent dub from cylinders. The same method can be used on a Rameses turntable from Esoteric Audio, with these speeds (33.33, 45, 71.29, 76.59, 78.26, 80 rpm) and a pitch control to play Edison Diamond Discs and Pathe vertical cut discs. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 16:08:34 Comments: Oops. Very sorry. It was a real Y2K problem which had me momentarily back in the year 1900! I never thought that a Radio Shack computer with six bytes of total memory (purchased in 1982) and running a somewhat early version of Windows (Windows 83) would be susceptible to this problem. Gee --Instead of trying to find Peter & Gordon in real stereo, I should have bought a new computer before New Years! Now before Tom Daly gives me the definitive recommendations on what kind of computer and peripherals to buy, this was all tongue-in-cheek. But if anyone does have those ancient wax discs, Tom's suggestions seem quite well researched and presented. Tom.. was the disc transfer of "Cry" by The Knightsbridge Strings done this way? (Just kidding.) After reading the list of suggested processing equipment, I did do a quick check of Biblical history so my guess is you can probably buy a Rameses turntable at a "Crazy Rameses" discount store anywhere in Egypt. That's the chain that has the commercials: "Hi! I'm 'Crazy Rameses' and you should buy your stereo equipment from me. Buy from me. Crazy prices. Best deals in town. I'm 'Crazy Rameses' and I'm C-R-A-A-A-Z-E-E-E-E! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 18:26:10 Comments: Marty, What you need to do now is to take your computer to the transfer station and discard it or donate it to one of your local thrift shops and then buy a new computer. |
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Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 2000-01-02 20:43:14 Comments: Recently saw the liner notes to Simon and Garfunkel's Old Friends set. It says the original pressings of S and G's 1960s albums contained great sound, which then deteriorated with each new LP and then CD pressing. Is this a general rule with LPs? I know I've heard the same regarding the original stereo LP pressing of Elvis Is Back. I'd like to hear if others have had similar experiences. By the way, EMI Canada's 50th anniversary set for the 1970s is a major disappointment, an overload of Sonic Solutions noise suppression. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 21:24:31 Comments: You'll hear lots of differing opinions on this. In the case of Columbia product, including "Simon And Garfunkel", the original songs were compiled into a master reel. Because these (usually 12) songs may have been mixed at different times and conditions, certain minor corrections needed to be made track-by-track. These may include slight level variations, slight eq changes and perhaps slight limiting. Once these corrections were made and incorporated on a "final master" production tape, this would be the tape used to cut all lacquers in the future. Now, we're not sure when or how much analog tape may deteriorate based on how many times it is played on a professional Ampex recorder. But in the case of a hit album (like S&G), Columbia needed to make not only initial lacquers for their three then pressing plants (usually two sets for each plant), but also lacquers for most of their foreign owned companies (which I believe were getting lacquers, not tape copies.) Figure that this same "production master" was used each and every time and you can understand that some deterioration from constant playing, winding, heat, etc. would occur over time. This would be less likely on an LP by The Peanut Butter Conspiracy since it may have been used only once to cut a few sets of lacquers. But add to this another variable... vinyl quality. It is also possible that a later version of this LP may have been pressed with vinyl not quite as good. Admittedly the problem here would not be so much in frequency response, but in more noise, clicks and pops, etc. So in summation, yes, probably slight changes in later pressings. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 21:26:55 Comments: I don't think it is always the case when the sound quality of an album deteriorates with each pressing. There is a fair amount of excellent sounding CD reissues of catalog albums even some of the 1980's CD reissues of music from the 1950's-1970's have good sound. There are poor sounding reissues and poor sounding first pressings. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 21:46:23 Comments: One last point regarding Joel Goldenberg's post. My reply addressed itself to making of lacquers for vinyl pressings. With CD duplication, the majors generally use only one CD production facility for their product. In many cases, especially if a re-issue producer is working closely on a project, a record label will endeavor to go back to the original master tape (not a production copy.) But you must also understand the other side of the coin. Artists and producers take their work seriously. They want to make sure that ALL product issued sounds EXACTLY like the way they approved it. They are reluctant to have self-styled mastering experts take their original tapes and enhance them the way they feel they should sound. So with some artists (like Stevie Wonder) all his later "master" tapes reside with him. Universal has only the "approved for final mastering" tape copies. But fret not, there are still a handful of reissue producers who are adamant in at least trying to use original masters rather than production copies. Sometimes they win out, sometimes they don't. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-02 21:48:09 Comments: To Marty & Joel: Marty, what is, perhaps, more to the point of Joel's question, is that on hit albums like those from S&G, the stampers were used more than they should have been before they were replaced with new ones; which, obviously resulted in poorer sound quality as time went on. Joel, in addition to the great results that Bob Irwin gave us on OLD FRIENDS, you might be surprised to find that the quality of sound that Mobile Fidelity gave us on their special audiophile pressing of Bookends is so good as not to be believed! I admit that I prefer the sound off of a pristine original <<--- 360 Stereo -->> pressing (it is more open), but the MoFi Gold CD is soooo close, it could make a believer out of digiphobes. Alas, Mobile Fidelity is no more, so you might have difficulty in finding one these days. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 23:33:37 Comments: In response to Steve Baird.. point well taken. But Columbia was generally very quality conscious about replacing lacquers and generating new stampers when needed. Remember, they had their own studios and mastering rooms, many engineers, many cutting lathes always running and it was never a time or cost problem to cut new parts. (This may not have been true for some indie labels.) But every time a new lacquer was generated, and on S&G we're talking about over a period of many years, it was the same production master in New York that would always get the most use and abuse. I still maintain that a lacquer made ten years after the initial release but using the same analog tape for that ten year period, this is where you might start finding a slight degradation in sound probably coming from the tape itself . Columbia and Epic have admitted that the hit single 45 master tapes from the 50's are often in such worn shape that they will use an alternate master, for example, perhaps from an LP master ("Greatest Hits" or various artist collection). Even though it is 2nd generation, it still is often in better shape than the original. And again, the worn master tapes are going to be the ones which were most used. Incidentally, though many record companies always relied on a 2nd generation copy to serve as an album master, this was not uniformly true for every situation. For example, "Thriller" by Michael Jackson was mastered independently of Columbia by Bernie Grundman (a well known and well respected Los Angeles mastering engineer.) He had the original original (typed twice for emphasis) in his studio and whenever a new lacquer was needed, he made it. He has a custom console which allows him to do eq and level settings in advance of the track being mastered, so he could incorporate all these subtleties as he was making lacquers without using a production master. |
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Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 2000-01-03 09:00:43 Comments: Just to echo Steve Baird's comments.......I bought the Mobile Fidelity "Bookends" CD as a little Chrismas gift to myself this year. I had passed it by several times figuring it couldn't be much better than the "Old Friends" transfer (after all, they had to be working from the same tape, right?) Boy, was I stunned when I put it on!! The sound on the "Old Friends" tracks is very very good, but the MO FI disc takes it to a whole new level. More detailed highs, more dynamic range and a bottom end I didn't even know existed on that album. After hearing this, I'm really sorry to see Mobile Fidelity go away. If you like Simon & Garfunkel, this is a landmark album that you might want to find before it's too late. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-03 21:35:37 Comments: Brother Dave: Not to speak ill of the dead, but MoFis were often hit or miss. There were some real dandies in their crop, however, and, from memory, here's my list of the FIVE best sounding Mobile Fidelity CDs ever released: 1. Cat Stevens: Tea For The Tillerman 2. Allman Brothers: Eat A Peach 3. Joe Cocker: Mad Dogs & Englishmen (gain 2 version released last year) 4. Simon & Garfunkel: Bookends 5. Duke Ellington: Blues in Orbit (This was the very LAST MoFi release, and very few of them hit the stores. If you are one of the lucky ones to get this one, you are a truly blessed soul. This was MoFi's first foray into dual layered SACD/DSD and backwards compatible 16/44.1, and it is a landmark in sound. There are a few titles left at some of the major suppliers; I got my second copy of Bookends from Total E just today. I doubt you'll find the others anywhere else besides ebay for big bucks now, though. |
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Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-04 09:28:20 Comments: As a long-time broadcast engineer and DJ, I must agree with Marty's comments. We used tape extensively in radio and could see measureable deterioration in as little as 50 passes over the heads; and that is with industrial-strength tape made for broadcast cartridges. The Scotch 408 (?, can't remember the number for certain) used by the studios was optimized more for response than multi-passes. Another trend I noticed over the years was less and less effort put into everyday cleaning of heads and pressure rollers. If this trend also prevailed in the studios it could be another contributing factor to poorer sound quality. Finally, as integrated circuits made their way into equipment overall frequency response dropped. For those who may doubt that, check some of the published audio equipment specifications of 1950-1960-1970-1980. You'll notice two things, the noise level improved but the response went from 20 Hz at the lower end to 30 and 50 Hz. Result, less base. High end went from 20 Khz down to 18 or 15 khz. Result, less clear high end. Overall listener result, thinner sounding tapes with less low and high ends. |
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Name: jonr Website: Phil Spector`s Wall Of Sound Time: 2000-01-04 12:22:47 Comments: Dionne Warwick. Need help finding a nice sounding stereo cd comp from Dionne Warwick from her 60s hit days on the Scepter label.I just need the hits,nothing fancy.I was checking around and there seems to be all kinds of issues and I`m not a "psychic",so what`s the best bang for my buck? Thanks |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-04 14:28:59 Comments: Dave, the deck's head design and material that the heads are made of are also a factor of the dropped frequency response in later decks. On my wall I have several Dionne Warwick comps. The one with the best overview of her 60's output is "The Dionne Warwick Collection: Her All-time Greatest Hits", Rhino R2 71100, stereo. It doesn't sound the best, but Arista/BMG put one out last year that covers her Scepter and Arista output with her 1974 one-off single with the Spinners, "Then Came You". The sound of the Arista disc is excellent, with 20-bit mastering. Other than sporadic releases of her Warner Bros. tracks, there are no currently available comps of her mid-70's material, although one studio album has shown up on CD. beetlefan |
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Name: Chas Time: 2000-01-04 20:34:11 Comments: Call Dionne Warwicks SIDEGIG NETWORK and ask one of her SIDEKICKS...Maybe they can tell us what the future brings for her back catalog..Happy New Year...To all the BSN "Cheerleaders"...Wow all the interest in MOFI..Funny when they were alive everyone COMPLAINED..As usual the DEAD brings out sudden interest LOL..Gotta Love It!!!!!! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-04 21:18:31 Comments: Goldmine has printed my correction that I wrote to them stating that the Charlie Daniels Band's top 40 country hit "Texas" isn't on his 1974 album "Fire On The Mountain," (which features the hits "The South's Gonna Do It" and "Long Haired Country Boy") but is on his followup LP from 1975, "Nightrider," which were both originally released on Kama Sutra but have both been reissued on Epic and are currently available on CD from Sony. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-04 22:43:19 Comments: Here's another point to consider regarding mastering for vinyl (you remember, those funny black round things?) Even if every lacquer part was cut from the same production master, the major record companies back in the 50's and 60's had MANY different mastering rooms. Each one had a different analog tape machine, all the cutting lathes had different cutter heads. Even if an engineer did not do any personal "embellishments" but transferred the tape exactly as specified, look at all the variables -- electronics in tape machines don't all perform to the same specs (especially over time), bad tube components in original Ampex machines, worn or ever-so-slightly misaligned/magnetized/or just plain dirty tape heads, bad tape glides producing "edge" damage, bad "flat" winding at normal speed (to have tape 'tails out' for storage). Then, many Ampex machines would wind the tape too tight, or the tape would be left on a machine that dissipated excessive heat from the motors. We know that heat is great if you're living in Boca Raton (had to say hi to S. Massie), but it ain't so good for recording tape. So you can see all the chances for problems, yes? Then add to that inexperienced (or trainee) engineers who were not quite adept at the fine points of handling tape. Tapes can spill and often get mangled, tapes consequently have to be respliced... sometimes poorly ... and the list goes on. And as we've seen too many times, a master tape was obviously damaged (usually acidentally) by an engineer who was probably too afraid of his job to tell anyone.. so nowhere is there any notation on the tape box that a few seconds of music are now garbled, or WORSE, a few seconds of tape is missing! As Steve Baird mentioned in an earlier post, this doesn't even address itself to the problems of pressing records with worn stampers (or any other manufacturing related problems.) Now our main concern has to be preservation of what is left and hasn't already been ruined or totally destroyed. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-05 08:55:13 Comments: Marty, I don't deny that you are right about all of those variables back in the good ol' days of licorice pizza; but they still exist. I'm sure that anyone who's ever copied a CD on his computer will attest to the fact that even the brand of blank used to make the copy contributes to some very minor, but real, differences. I don't know why, but A&M has played significantly into some very major sonic differences I've been witness to as an audiophile. For example, I have an early copy of the Supertramp CD, *Crisis, What Crisis?* that sounds incredible. When a few audiophile friends in other cities heard mine, they ran out to get the CD. Upon playing these copies, and comparing them to mine, we were extremely disappointed to find that theirs did not sound the same (we've never been able to determine why). On another forum, there has been recent discussion about the remasters of the Eagles' first 7 releases by one Ted Jensen at Sterling. I sought out *Desperado* which has always been an audiophile favorite on the British vinyl pressing. Not only is Jensen's significantly inferior to the original LP, I haven't yet decided whether there's enough there to say the new CD is any better at all than the old one. It really does all boil down to expertise and equipment. In some instances, I've learned of CD reissues that were done where the same engineer who originally did the record used exactly the same tape machine to master his CD reissue. In one case that I know of (M&K's *For Duke* mastered in both instances by Ken Kreisel) the results are so astonishing that the CD is completely indistinguishable from the record -- which, to an audiophile, is exactly as it should be. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-05 11:40:50 Comments: Over the holidays I was talking to a fellow who worked, for years, at a famous disc cutting lab here in NYC...his name appears on many famous '60s LPS, and hes been in the business forever. What he mentioned to me was that regarding all the debate today about the easy manipulation of Digital vs the pure sound of analog , he said that they had the SAME battle in the early '60s when transistors started to replace tubes...he said that the early transistor equipment sounded DREADFUL in comparison to tubes, and that the studio owners bought them soley because they would be cheaper to buy, maintain, and would use up less electricity. Funny how things never change!!! Mikey |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-05 14:24:42 Comments: Steve's comments are on the money, and should really drive home the point that when we buy CD's we don't really get a representation of what's on the tape. There are just too many factors involved, from the tape, right down to our listening rooms. Mastering veteren Ted Jensen, while very talented, has a reputation for attempting to make tapes sound a bit more *modern*. I didn't care for his Eagles remasters. I didn't find any significant improvements over the original CD's. In fact, I thought the original WEA CD of "Hotel California" sounded better, but the DCC version sounds *the* best! I have at times, remastered some of my homemade CD-R's, using different software and methods than the first time I made the CD, and have actually wound up with virtually the *same* results. This says to me that skill and a unique hearing perspective, have a lot to do with remastering. beetle |
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Name: Doug
Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 2000-01-05 14:36:00 Comments: Question to Marty and others in the industry who have knowledge of record pressing and related matters: Isn't it true that when pressing vinyl, certain equalization adjustments (tradeoffs?) need to often be made in order to improve trackability and to prevent distortion? I thought that specially eq'd pressing master tapes had to be made from the sub-master two track (stereo) or full-track (mono) tape. So if one of those pressing sub-master tapes was either damaged or destroyed, a new one had to be made which would put another variable into the equation. At the same time, though, it would preserve the sub-master and ensure that it would not be played (worn) as often as the pressing masters would be. Another thing that I thought was true was that in the early days of cd replication, the record companies would simply give the cd replicator the two-track sub-master that had been eq'd for vinyl pressing and that's why many of the early cd's sounded so bad. And who knows how many Special Products projects still use those tapes! Please comment on this, as I'm not sure I'm right and anyone interested in this discussion would undoubtedly enjoy your responses. Happy New Year to everyone! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-05 17:48:35 Comments: While not an industry insider, I can tell you that you are basically correct. But, the general rule is that once EQ'd masters were made, the first generation mixdown master was safely tucked away and sometimes labled something like, "Do Not Use" or "Not For Production". In fact, this is how a lot of pristine master reels are labled. Or, they would use safety copies, sometimes made during the mixdown session or copied from the mixdown tape. Many times, companies would send copies out to two, three, or more pressing plants, not to mention overseas and for consumer open reel, cassette, 8-track, and other formats, and those tapes would also have to be modified for those particular formats. EQ'ed tapes for the vinyl format being used for CD production is one of many reasons why early CD's sounded bad. Early converters and some engineers' inexperience with the digital technology are two more reasons. Many manufacturers of pro digital equipment, like 3M, Sony, and Mitsubishi used to even provide instruction for engineers. Still, many fine digital recordings from that period were still made by people like Don Grusin, Roger Nichols. Until someone like Marty W. or Tom D. replies, I hope this helps. beetle |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-05 18:51:27 Comments: To: Doug Peck, first let me apologize: I am not an expert on anything; just a guy who fell in love with quality sound almost 40 years ago. I don’t profess to know everything, or even a lot of things, but I do know this: You are absolutely correct about how much of the music was altered to maintain its trackability on vinyl. Given the dimensions and dynamics of the record groove, and the low compliance of the majority of phono cartridges throughout much of the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s, engineers were compelled to roll off both high and low frequencies in order to insure that their products would be playable on nearly all, if not all, of the record players their potential customers might own. Without getting too deeply into all of the variables associated with optimum phono playback, just let me mention that as the 70’s were emerging, so too was state-of-the-art phono playback making its way into many homes. Thanks to much of the research that dedicated and knowledgeable folks with an interest in improving the sound we heard from records, low mass, high compliance cartridges -- from such companies as Shure and ADC -- that could track even the most difficult records were designed and became commonplace. For the audiophile purist, even tonearm resonant frequencies were brought into consideration. If the resonant frequency of the tonearm did not approximate that same specification for the cartridge, then mis-tracking could be anticipated. As for these adjustments to avoid mis-tracking being made directly to the tape, I’ll defer to the experts. It seems likely.
To Mikey: hey guy, you’re showing your age! Do you remember the old Lafayette Radio and
Electronics chain headquartered in New York? Don’t know when they went out of business, but I can
tell you this: after hearing my brother’s super sounding LRE setup (about 1962), I marched right down
to one of their DC area stores in northern VA (not too far from where Mike Callahan lives), to buy the
same setup. The salesman told me that my brother’s inferior tube based receiver had been
discontinued; it had been replaced by this super-duper transistor receiver that put out three times the
watts and no heat — the speakers were still current, though. And the best part was that it, the receiver,
cost only $50 more! I bought it, took it home, set it up, but, ya know, it didn’t sound the same. It was
downright awful sounding. |
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Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-05 21:41:38 Comments: There is some misinformation being propogated here. The equalization, known as the RIAA curve, was developed to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of vinyl recordings and had nothing to do with tracking. The mathematical formulas are easy to find with a little research, but in essence they roll-off the low end and boost the high-end to get this improvement. The same technique is used on FM radio and is know as the 75 microsecond pre-emphasis curve. Look at some of the Mercury and Columbia recordings of the mid-60s and they pushed the amplitude of the audio to the maximum they could without breaking down the groove walls. The idea was for the sound to leap out of your speakers. Compare records of the same time to lables like Decca and RCA which both refused to play the loudness game. Dave |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-05 22:15:25 Comments: Well, I don't claim to be an expert at pressing. But I can do slacks for $2.25 - shirts for $1.75 - In by 8AM - out by 5PM. We're closed Sundays. |
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Name: Mike
Hartman From: Vernon Hills, IL Time: 2000-01-06 09:34:58 Comments: Wow! My head is spinning with all this talk. Hey, anyone have any good stereo finds lately or reviews of re-issues? |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: New Jersey Time: 2000-01-06 10:21:38 Comments: To Dave, sorry, but the EQ fiddling that Steve and others are talking about has nothing to do with the RIAA curve. The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting head electronics and is not usually fiddled with. We're talking about the then common practice to roll-off low frequencies around 60-100Hz at the cutting stage to avoid tracking problems and increase the total allowable playing time per side. (Low frequencies eat up a lot of groove space.) Improving the S/N ratio was not the main reason for the RIAA curve. That was secondary . It's main purpose was to be able to fit at least 30 minutes of High Fidelity sound on a 12" disc side. By attenuating the low frequencies at the cutting head (and the reciprocal boost at the phono preamp stage), one was able to have (reasonably) good sound with maximum playing time per side. The idea of boosting the highs during cutting, and the attenuation applied at our end came much, much earlier and was common practice among all record companies (each had their own "curve"). The RIAA curve just standardized it. |
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Name: Randy Vest From: NYC Time: 2000-01-06 12:49:34 Comments: Hey Mike Hartman, thanks for saying it! Yeah, all this technical talk has my "mind in a whirl" (to quote an early Ike & Tina tune!) Wish I had some new finds to report here to steer the conversation back to stereo. Did pick up Westside's new Jackie Wilson compilation of late 60s/early 70s "northern soul"-type cuts which is 99% stereo and has really good sound. Does that help? :>) |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 13:15:05 Comments: Randy, I think all this tech talk is all part of the music experience, and I love it! But, seeing as how some don't care about the technical aspects of recordings... Has anyone here checked out the Sony Music 100 years box or any of the many double CD sets taken from it yet? I bought "Pop Music: the Golden Era, 1951-1975", and "Pop Music: The Modern Era, 1976-1999". The sound is really terrific, and sounds like they went the extra mile to find the best tapes out there. Lots of stereo. They even went as far as to re-edit some bad splices. I thought I mentiond this series before, but no one commented on it. Perhaps no one has heard them. beetlefan |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-06 14:18:39 Comments: To Steve Baird.....Hey guy, I'm only 40!! And I sure DO remember Lafayette Electronics on 14th st and Union Square. I cant tell you how many times I hooped down there from my house to go look at all the cool audio stuff they had. And as far as tube amps goes, you are quite right. I used a 1960 EICO 40 watt tube stereo amp that my dad built from a kit up untill 10 years ago when I got into high end Audio. that amp sounded so GREAT it was unbelievable. Solid state sounded flat compared to it. I distinctly remember my A-1 pressing of The Associations "Along Comes Mary" LP on that system sounded like studio master tapes. I wish I had that press today on my new system!! |
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Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-06 16:21:07 Comments: Chip, May I respectfully disagree. Please read the original NARTB Standards published in 1949, the section under Signal To Noise Ratio describes the roll-off characteristics. The NARTB standard was that adopted by the RIAA, as you stated, to standardize the various equalization curves used after World War II. Also, the equalization was done in the recording equipment electronics, not in the recording head. Sometime during the 50's many of the studios starting EQing the tapes versus letting the electonics do it. Perhaps one of our studio veterans can shed more information on that. Dave |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 16:37:58 Comments: In 1972, as a 10 year-old, my first cassette player was a Lafayette. |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Time: 2000-01-06 17:24:42 Comments: Randy, You said something I have been wondering about for sometime now. Jackie Wilson "Northern Soul" type cuts. What is "Northern Soul"? I have heard the term around, and I know it has to do with the north of England, but other than that I don't have a clue. Does it refer to a time frame? A certain style? A set of labels? What would make one Jackie Wilson cut a "Northern Soul" song, and another not? Anybody an expert on this out there? |
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Name: Marty
Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 2000-01-06 17:34:01 Comments: Does anyone know if any of the following recordings exist in true stereo? I'm checking on a few instrumentals as you can see. Applejacks - Mexican Hat Rock, H.B. Barnum - Lost Love, Vincent Bell - Airport Love Theme, Billy Joe & Checkmates - Percolator, Boots Brown - Cerveza, Busters - Bust Out, Joe Carr - Portuguese Washerwomen, Daddy-O's - Got A Match, Dicky Doo-click Clack and Nee Nee Na Na Na Na Nu Nu, Duals-Stick Shift, Bobby Gregg-The Jam Part I, Islanders - The Enchaned Sea, Freddy King-Hideaway, Moe Koffman - Swinging Shepherd Blues, Los Indios Tabajaras-Maria Elena, Meters-Cissy Strut and Sophisticated Sissy, Willie Mitchell - 20-75 and Soul Serenade, Mickey Mozart - Little Dipper, Pets-ChaHuaHua, Pyramids-Penetration, Rebels-Wild Weekend, Royaltones-Poor Boy, Lou Stein-Almost Paradise ,Stringalongs-Brass Buttons, Waikikis - Hawaii Tattoo, Wailers-Tall Cool One, Walter Wanderly-Summer Samba. Thanks. |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-01-06 20:15:04 Comments: Marty, Here are CD sources for many of the instrumentals you listed: "Airport Love Theme": Billboard Top Soft Rock Hits - 1970 (Rhino R2-72736); Instrumental Favorites: Movie Magic (Time-Life R986-07) "The Enchanted Sea": Discoveries Presents Stereo Instrumental Oldies (Varese VSD-6009); Instrumental Favorites - Exotic Moods (Time-Life R986-19); Your Hit Parade - ’50s Instrumentals (Time-Life HPD-30) "Maria Elena": at least a half-dozen CDs, including Nipper’s Greatest Hits: The 60s - Vol. 1 (RCA 7863 67871-2 [Remaster]) "Cissy Strut": also at least a half-dozen CDs, including Funkify Your Life: The Meters Anthology (Rhino R2-71869) ("Sophisticated Cissy" is also on this CD in stereo) "20-75": History of Hi Records: R&B - Vol. 1 (MCA MCAD-25226); The Rock ’N’ Roll Era - Axes & Saxes: The Great Instrumentals (Time-Life 2RNR-36) "Soul Serenade": about a half-dozen, including Soul Serenade - The Best of Willie Mitchell (Right Stuff 72434-99802-2) "Brass Buttons": Teen Beat - Vol. 3 (Ace (UK) CDCH-602); Wheels (Ace (UK) CDCH-390) "Hawaii Tattoo": Vintage Instrumentals Vol. One (Stardust CD-1012) "Summer Samba": another six-pack, including More Instrumental Gems of the ‘60s (Collectors’ Choice DPSM-5190) |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: S. F. bayare Time: 2000-01-06 20:46:27 Comments: Instrumental Madness cont'd: Let me add Poor Boy/Royaltones in mono and stereo on AL-CD6310121: titled The Royaltones either meet or VS the Ramrods. Also includes Flamingo Express in [fair] stereo. On Alvorado Music from Barcelona Spain 32 tracks. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 21:26:26 Comments: Jay Conners, It has nothing to do with England. "Northern soul" is the cousin of "southern soul". Soul music from places like Philadelphia, Chicago, and Detroit had a different flavor than the stuff from Memphis, New Orleans, and Muscle Shoals, back in the days when music was more regional. Jackie Wilson was American. In fact, the Funk Brothers, Motown's house band, played on Jackie's hit, "Your Love Is Lifted Me Higher". It is, perhaps, the best non-Motown Motown record. |
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Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, Oklahoma Time: 2000-01-06 21:28:17 Comments: "Northern Soul", defined broadly, is R&B stuff from the 60s and early 70s issued by smallish labels (as distinguished from, say, Motown or Stax), which caught on as a craze in the 70s in the north of England and is still apparently part of a viable club scene. I started paying attention to this particular phenomenon when I went looking last year for sides by Philadelphia songstress Nella Dodds, who is well-regarded in this milieu. Dodds recorded for Scepter's Wand subsidiary, and both Scepter and Wand are considered prime Northern Soul labels; I bought two compilations, one entirely of Scepter/Wand material (Kent CDKEND 112, The Sweet Sound of Success) and one which also includes Musicor and Dynamo tracks (Goldmine Soul Supply GSCD 65, Big City Soul 4: 60 Northern Soul Classics), and between the two there is only one duplicate. Got five Nella Dodds tunes for my trouble, too. |
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Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 2000-01-06 21:34:23 Comments: WOW! What a discussion on LP pressings. Thanks, all. I'm now committed to buying original pressings where possible. In the meantime, I'm quite disappointed with at least one of the Carpenters' remasters, Now and Then. They went back to the original mix, which was pretty thin to begin with, rather than Richard Carpenter's state of the art remixes. (All right, maybe he went slightly too far on the From the Top box, but boy was it clean!) I have the new Guess Who best-of, very clear but a little too digital. I was really boppin' to the vinyl Canned Wheat, even with the crackle. This may sound crazy, but some of my CDs sound best when I tape and play them in my car's very bassy sound system. By the way, I was really intrigued to hear about the sound quality of the different CD pressings of the Supertramp album. I'd love to hear other examples. Regarding remasterings, this has all gone so far with some remasterings being done four times! (Hello, Jimi Hendrix and Paul McCartney!) |
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Name: Don
Duffey From: Buffalo Time: 2000-01-06 22:53:08 Comments: To Chuck I. The Royaltones vrs. The Ramrods.. I picked up this disc after reading it was stereo..WRONG..The mono tunes are mono with lots of surface noise,the "stereo" cuts are mono with reverb, plus stereo surface noise.I can't detect any separation whats so ever.Save your money! |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: New Jersey Time: 2000-01-06 23:04:10 Comments: Hi Dave! Thanks for your reply. First, I am a studio veteran! Been a recording engineer for around 15 years now. Worked in the Polygram vaults in the early Nineties. Been an audiophile and stereo nut even longer (close to 25 years), so I have more than a passing interest in the field :) I admit to being somewhat confused by your answer. I think you need to clarify to me what you mean by your use of the phrases "recording equipment electronics" and "recording head". Do you mean on a tape recorder or a disc cutting lathe? Assuming you mean a cutting lathe, then you are correct. The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting lathe's electronics, not the cutting head itself. This is my fault. I tend to think of the two as one entity, and my meaning wasn't clear. However, I still think you are confusing a number of concepts and disciplines here. I get the impression that you think that the RIAA curve is applied to the master tape used to cut disc lacquers, and that the cutting head electronics have their RIAA curve EQ bypassed. If this is what you mean, I can state absolutely and without hesitation that that is not the case!! The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting head electronics to the cutting head. It is done no other way. Period. It's a closed system. There is no such thing as a RIAA curve encoded tape. If there was, how would the cutting engineer know when something was wrong with the sound? He would be hearing a tape with a -20dB cut starting at around 30Hz, and a rising high end that would shatter glass by the time it got to around 20 kHz! He would never be able to judge if the frequency balance was good, or if he needed to tame a bass peak that would cause problems when pressed. The EQing we have all been discussing is the equivalent of messing with the bass and treble controls on your stereo. Totally seperate issue. I think any other correspondence between us on this matter should go to our private e-mail addresses. I think the others may get restless with this topic. Or not. Whatta 'bout it people? |
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Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 2000-01-07 00:57:52 Comments: I have 2 questions. Does anyone remember a song called "Snow Queen" by the Roger Nichols Trio? I cannot find a single person who remembers this song. It did not chart but got some airplay in the SF Bay Area in the late 60s. I don't know if its the same Roger Nichols that we hear about as a producer/engineer etc. Of course, what I would most like to know is if anyone has seen it on CD. Second, I bought a remastered copy of "The Long Run" by the Eagles. It is an improvement over the existing offering that has been out for 10 years or so. Not overwhelming, but a discernable improvement. Great album, so gotta have the best version. |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 2000-01-07 01:56:39 Comments: Hey Willie, wassssup?! I believe the song you are referring to is the same one Carol King released with a group called The City. I think the label was Ode, the same one Scott McKenzie was on with "San Francisco." Roger Nichols was I believe on A & M, with the same (great) song. And I do believe you see Mr. Nichols name all over the place on A & M product in the years following the release of Snow Queen, as either engineer, producer, arranger, etc. Your post brings to mind another song of that era, one which was included in the Midnight Cowboy film. The artist is Evie Sands, also on A & M, and the song is "Crazy Annie". Would anyone reading this know if this song is available on CD? It's an all time favorite of mine that was sadly overlooked most places, but may have charted somewhere. [ -- Roger Nichols' "Snow Queen" was issued in 8/68 on A&M 965. Evie Sands' "Crazy Annie" made #116 nationally, so it obviously charted SOMEWHERE. It was on A&M 1157, charting 1/70. -- MC] |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-07 03:48:01 Comments: Willie, I have the remastered version of "The Long Run" and it is just a slight improvement over the old WEA CD issue. The improvements are a slight deepening of the bass. To be honest, it's probably not really worth it. I hope one day that Steve Hoffman at DCC will remaster this one. He did such a great job with the "Eagles Greatest Hits", and "Hotel California". I'd like to read more on this forum about disc cutting. I've just gotten back into vinyl collecting primarilly because I make CD-R's out of them. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-07 09:35:09 Comments: Speaking of audio dubs, I dubbed the "Urban Cowboy" soundtrack CD reissue (the album was originally released in 1980) which is still in print on a cassette tape and the audio dub sounded worse than the CD itself. The CD only has about Good to Excellent sound quality and would rate to somewhere around a B to B- which isn't bad at all, but this is one of my favorite movies and contains lots of my favorite songs in any genre. When I dubbed Sony/Legacy reissue of "Jimmy Dean's Greatest Hits" the dub matched the sound quality of the CD. This CD was mastered very well (I'd rate it somewhere around a high B to an A). |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: SF bay area Time: 2000-01-07 11:10:59 Comments: First, I re-listened to the Royaltones meets the Ramrods, headphones, correctly in place, and I will agree that Poor Boy, was probably a good *Duophonic* job, not TS. Whatever happened to truth in advertising? The disc cover clearly states Stereo on several cuts. Second, The Roger Nichols song Snow Queen was a big Calif hit. The RN trio played on most A & M records and its rumored that the Carpenters did the background vocals [listen], while they were waiting for their big break. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-07 11:23:06 Comments: Chuck, I don't know what happened to truth in advertising, as it seems to have died. They only said stereo to get stereo collectors into buying the CD. I don't like seeing stereo claims on recordings when they really aren't stereo. |
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Name: Marty
Blaise Time: 2000-01-07 11:29:45 Comments: Re: Royaltones - maybe someone with a CDR or CDRW and software that has a good "widening" program could check out this track. A friend of mine just installed a CDR. I showed him how to split Jumping Jack Flash wide apart, revealing more than he'd heard before. The Who's Call Me Lightning is definitely stereo, if you use the widener part of the software (thanks to those who did so for me). Also wonder if using the OOPS process might show anything about the Royaltones (or other) tracks. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-07 18:16:56 Comments: Very often, the slight improvements you hear in CD mastering are no more than slight eq changes. In some cases, the original tapes have all the fullness and richness, but when they were used for generating LP lacquers they may have required some of the following processing: low and high frequency roloff, low and high pass filtering, compression and limiting. All this was necessary to generate an LP or '45 which would be cut at an acceptably loud level and would also track on all varieties of playback systems. Though we did get used to hearing our favorite albums with some of the above mentioned "added features", the tapes certainly weren't recorded this way. Of course with CDs, we don't have to worry about cutter heads, hence no need for roloff, limiting, etc. All we are really concerned about is getting the "maximum" sound level on a CD and the equipment in the Sonic and Cedar systems will readily show you if you are getting any unacceptable "peaks" (or "overs") which must be corrected before supplying a finished 1630 or exabyte master to the plant. So with a high quality source master which is presumably still in excellent shape, and by doing either no, or a minimal amount of eq work to maybe "warm up" the sound ever so slightly, you can wind up with a very fine sounding CD end product. And the new a/d converters and 24 bit mastering systems DO give an added improvement. Those of you who have read my previous posts, know that I feel that there is no legitimate reason to ever generate artifacts when mastering. If you can use the new computer technology to make slight improvements in the noise floor without ruing the integrity of the music "at all", then you are a "mastering virtuoso." But if your intent is to create a totally noise free sounding product from something which originally had a great deal of noise....... who's kidding who...you are going to be making a big sacrifice in the end product which I don't think is acceptable. Your final sounding product may sound quiet; it will also sound lifeless. You might be (in old advertising parlance) be "trading a headache for an upset stomach!" I'm sure any PROFESSIONAL mastering engineers will agree with this assessment regarding the issue of artifacts. Those who buy into the premise that some artifacts may be okay are ultimately doing a great disservice to the CD buyer, but more importantly, to THE MUSIC. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-07 20:12:44 Comments: Marty, re: Another Who stereo cut is The Last Time from the box set. I don't have a widened version of it (I do have Call Me Lightning widened), but it's indeed stereo... |
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Name: Alan
Carner From: Fort Smith Time: 2000-01-07 22:11:24 Comments: Has anyone found on Cd the "Hell" version of Jimmy Dean's Big John in Stereo. |
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Name: Chris B. From: OH Time: 2000-01-08 01:15:09 Comments: Is there a "live" cd or boot of Sly @ the Family Stone? He could really rock if he showed up ready to play. His Woodstock set is consider the best of all of the performers at the original festival. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-08 03:24:33 Comments: Bravo, Marty W! I'll add only for those who may have misinterpreted my comments on playing vinyl in the old days that much of what Marty was discussing a few posts below has largely been overcome by such contemporary analog mastering wizards as Stan Ricker and Bernie Grundman. Some of the releases from Classic Records and Analogue Productions (in Kansas) bear little in common sonically to their predecessors of yesteryear. After having heard SACD finally, I think the Holy Grail is upon us, though. I may never have to wipe the dust from my stylus ever again! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-08 08:21:50 Comments: The "hell of a man" version of "Big Bad John" doesn't exist in stereo. The only stereo version out there is the "big, big man" version of the song. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-01-08 09:51:16 Comments: "Big Bad John" in stereo was mixed from 3-track, and the vocal is center. In the stereo "big big man" version, when JD recites this line, it's just his voice w/echo, nothing else, and it's pretty much mono. I've taken the line "at the bottom of this mine, lies one hell of a man...big John" from the mono vers. and spliced it in to the stereo, and it sounds fine, since the "big big man" line is for the most part mono. I can provide an MP3 file if anyone is interested in hearing this. |
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Name: graham From: Co Time: 2000-01-08 10:46:31 Comments: Hey i have not gotten my newsletter from last quarter! Has anyone received theirs yet? I also have both big bad Johns in stereo! But the line hell of a man is in mono (just that line). Hell of a man is on Country classics series from Columbia, while the other is on American Originals Jimmys greatest hits! |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-08 13:53:04 Comments: RE: The Spokesmen: Dawn of Correction. My database tells me that I have 2 copies of this song on CD -- one on Vintage Music - Volume 09/10, the other on Sixties Rule. Both are from MCA, and both are pretty dreadful sounding. Does anyone know where this song sounds its best on CD? Also, does anyone have any info on that Rhino collection of songs of protest? How does it stack up? Is it still available? |
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Name: beetlefan36@hotmail.com Time: 2000-01-08 14:00:59 Comments: Steve, I don't know if it's still available, and I have it, but you probably won't like it. It has lots of mono. beetlefan |
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Name: Bernard
Smith From: England Time: 2000-01-08 16:42:50 Comments: I notice that Discollector is advertising three volumes of Cameo Parkway material. Does anyone have information on the contents of these, both track listings and sonic quality? Many thanks! |
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Name: Mark
Probst From: Albany,NY Time: 2000-01-08 19:56:02 Comments: Help! Would like to purchase "Jerry Fuller's 30 Years Of Hits" (JFS #1001),a promo CD. The CD was reviewed/commented by Dave Mahan in Issue #34- page 415. I am interested in two (2) Rick Nelson tracks- "A Wonder Like You" and "Young World". I believe its the only CD appearance of those songs in true stereo. If others exist in true stereo I would be interested. I would certainly accept a CDR of the entire CD or just those two tracks. I will pay any and all costs involved. If anybody can help it will be greatly appreciated. Hope Dave Mahan is listening. Thank you. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-09 00:01:47 Comments: The Kinks - Not really being much of a fan, does anyone know what (if any) of their early stuff has been released in stereo, and where? It seems to me somebody said their first LP was issued in stereo but the second was not, although I could be wrong. I know the recent UK remasters are mono, but... Any help would be appreciated. |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-01-09 13:08:53 Comments: Luke, Rhino's 1988 You Really Got Me CD (Rhino R2 70315) is all stereo except for the title track and the three bonus tracks (which were early U.K. singles). The label's Kinda Kinks and Kinks-Size Kinkdom CDs are all mono. |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN. Time: 2000-01-09 14:49:34 Comments: Evidently the 1993 "History of the Dave Clark Five" (Hollywood 2-disc) has gone out of print? Three copies are being bid-up big time at EBay, with a top of $56. The single-disc version is there as well, with bid in the +$20 range. Glad I have both. Also, there is a "Bits & Pieces" import being bid on, which says it's a 1992 Australian release. Mike's review in "Oldies On CD" claims a Dutch origination. Although the EBay seller doesn't indicate a label, his listing does show the artwork and 26 tracks. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-09 16:05:24 Comments: In desperation, I recently bought The Best of Frank Ifield/ The EMI Years on cd. What a rip! The only one of his singles that's stereo (Lovesick Blues), is an alternate take, (2:16, as opposed to 2:38, in length). Plus, "Please" is not even on the disc. When is someone going to do these things right? Does anyone know where I can find the single versions of "Lovesick Blues" and "Please"? I'll even take them in mono. Marty, I disagree with you, completely, about cleaning up the sound of recordings. I don't care what is done, as long as the final result is clean, clear sounding tracks, that are true to the sound of the 45's (and lp's). They don't have to be totally hiss-free, but as much as possible, without losing the original sound. One listen to the stuff coming out on Taragon and Eric indicates to me that it can be done. And sometimes from disc's. So, I'll always be looking forward to the releases that I know I can trust. |
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Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-09 21:06:41 Comments: John, Frank Ifield's Lovesick Blues is in nice, clean stereo on The Best Of Frank Ifield, Disky DC886822. Most of Frank's hits are on this CD, but no Please. The disk is clean, appears to be from tapes, and the stereo is good on Call Her Your Sweetheart, I Remember You, Lovesick Blues and No One Will Ever Know. I got it a couple years ago from DiscCollector. Dave |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-10 00:22:19 Comments: Actually, Dave, according to music express.com, the disc you mention contains the alternate 2:17 version of "Lovesick Blues", instead of the 2:38 minute single version. The "Best of" cd that I already have contains that version. Thanks, anyway. |
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Name: Dan Asvitt Website: From: California Time: 2000-01-10 00:50:42 Comments: Willie, I'm from the Bay Area and I remember "Snow Queen" by the Roger Nichols Trio very well. I heard it quite a bit on KYA or KEWB, or perhaps both. Good song. Dan |
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Name: Doug
Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 2000-01-10 11:51:40 Comments: "Snow Queen" by Roger Nichols was also aired in Southern California and scattered markets throughout the U.S. It was included in at least two of our syndicated formats until complaints from the conservative stations killed it. Apparently some folks interpreted the lyrics as being about something far from what they really are about (shades of "Puff the Magic Dragon" here??). It has been released on one, and possibly two Japanese CD's. One may still be in print (POCM-2065). Anyone interested can check with their favorite import supplier. Musicexpress.com lists it on their site. |
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Name: dave mahan From: smyrna, georgia Time: 2000-01-10 12:08:45 Comments: to Mark Probst,post 243.please go to page 498 of the BSN NEWSLETTER and you will find a correction to my previous review of jerry fuller's cd containing the Ricky Nelson songs.Both songs are mono.You would think they would have been recorded in stereo somehwere at that time. |
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Name: mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-10 13:23:04 Comments: Re :The Dave Clark Five. Yes, the 2 Cd set of "The History of The DC5" is out of print, because Hollywood Records no longer has the license to issue any DC5 product. This was a 5 year license and expired in mid 1999. there was alot of friction between Dave Clark and Hollywood, they could not agree on how to market the DC5 catalouge, which was SUPPOSED to ALL be issued on Hollywood in the Cd format. Dave Clark wanted Box Sets that sell for high $$, Hollywood wanted two-fers at a midline price. So we got only the 50 track greatest hits Cd, which isnt bad, but isnt great either. As for the "Bits and Pieces" Cd, that and ALL other DC5 Cds EXCEPT "The DC5 and The Washington Dcs" on Ember are bootlegs. The Bits and Pieces CD does have the hits in true stereo (except Over and Over, 19 Days and Reeling and Rocking, which are all mono) , but has crappy sonics and was ALL dubbed from noisy vinyl. They also faded into most tracks to hide the groove noise, which annoys me no end!! Dave had been, in mid-99 , talking to some other label about reissuing the DC5 material, but nothing came of it. The Christmas season would have been the perfect time from a marketing standpoint, but, from the info I got from someone at Holywood, DC is very hard to deal with and makes unreasonable demands of the label. This is a shame, because the DC5 LPs have a TON of great songs. There is enough really good material to do ANOTHER 50 track box, which is what I believe Dave wanted to do, calling it "More Of The Five". The record buying public, however seems to prefer the actual LPs reissued in their original form. I know I would. I'm in "Bits and Pieces" over this thing. I hope that this gets resolved, so I can be "Glad All Over Again" in 2000. Hope this helps, Mikey |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-10 13:57:07 Comments: Dave Clark has always been his own man when it comes to business (a jerk!), but maybe he's been taking Allen Klein lessons! |
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Name: John
Rubin From: Tulsa, Ok. Time: 2000-01-10 15:46:08 Comments: I am trying to find the address and/or phone number of Relic Recors, a N.J. based reissue label |
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Name: Martin
Nathan Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester, Mass. Time: 2000-01-11 01:27:07 Comments: I have read some comments about the "Hey Look What I Found Series". Apparently people don't like the sound quality. I don't listen to the disks on my home stereo, I just listen to it on tapes I make for my car. What you think of the songs on this set of 9 disks depends on your musical tastes. If you are looking for rock classics, this is the wrong set for you. If you hate pop, don't go anywhere near these disks. But if you love some of the most great obscure low charting hits, you've come to the right place. The best way to listen to these disks is to put all 9 disks into your disk player, and set it to random. Make sure to make a tape, and listen to it later. Some really strange tunes- some really good sounding songs from performers you normally wouldn't listen to. Zero-Zero by Lawrence Welk. Quite an infectious tune by somebody not known for infectious tunes. Milk and Honey by Eddie Fisher. The Lone Teen Ranger-Paul Landis. It's A Gas-Alfred E. Neumann. Tick Tock-Richie Cordell. Love Means-Sounds Of Sunshine. Smoke Gets In You Eyes-Blue Haze. Make Believe- Wind. The list goes on and on. These are love 'em or hate 'em songs. I wish this series would put out about 20 volumes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's all done. If it does go on, I would like to see it focus on the late 60's to early 80's Here's a list for you: MY Idea-Creme Caramel Goodnight Baby-Kingtones Mr. Balloon Man-Ray Hildebrand. One Day Of Your Life-Alex Keenan But For Love-Jerry Naylor Day By Day-Holly Sherwood Easy to Bad-Ranji One Word-Austin Roberts Costafine Town-Splinter Summer Prayer For Peace-Archies We Can't Hide It Anymore-Larry Santos Dance And Shake Your Tambourine-Universal Robot Band They Don't Make 'Em Like That Anymore-Reunion Don'Hold Back-Chanson Hot Summer Nights-Night Just So Lonely-Get Wet Midnight Blue-Louise Tucker________ Martin Nathan |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Metro Time: 2000-01-11 02:13:28 Comments: Martin, Quite enjoyed your post! Why, because I agree with you. That series is not about sound quality, it's about remembering songs that have long been buried in the rubble of radio. Songs that don't "test" well never get played, and most of the Hey Look grouping will never see (hear) the light of day on any radio station I can think of. A shame, really. Like you, I dub the three volumes of this series I have off and listen to it in the car. While I was waiting for lunch to be prepared at a local eatery (take out) I was listening to it in my car, and suprisingly some of the selections (Ray Peterson, I could have loved you so well) sounded fine. Mark Dinning's All of this for Sally made me chuckle, and Life Guards Everybody Out of the Pool had me tapping my foot while driving (I don't know how one does that, but I did it!) and having a good old time driving back to work with my hot lunch. It's all about perspective. Do they sound great? No. Do they get the job done? I think so. I for one intend to buy more of the series (only have three discs of it so far) because far and away I enjoy hearing Scarlett Ohara by Lawrence Welk, and Richard Chamberlain singing Blue Guitar. Got a Match, and Greyhound are great instrumentals. Tracy Dey's Gonna Get Along Without You Now is so cheesy I love it. Patience and Prudence must have been shocked when they heard their song covered! Many people reading this will think I'm a fruitcake for admitting that I enjoy this junk, but I don't really care. I also enjoy Faure, Greig, and Vaughn Williams. Bud Powell, Duke Ellington and Count Basie reside prominantly within my cd collection. No, I don't have Spice Girls, but hey, if you like them, enjoy! |
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Name: Dean
Zemaitaitis From: Calgary Canada Time: 2000-01-11 02:17:08 Comments: I'm trying to find someone who might have stereo copies of two songs that I think were issued in 1959 and 1960 on stereo 45's. One was "Cradle of love" by Johnny Preston and the other was "Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye" by Kathy Linden though I am less sure about the Linden being true stereo as opposed to rechanneled. These two Stereo 45's seem quit ellusive but I would love to hear them in stereo if possible. Does anyone know of any other stereo 45's that were in true stereo when issued but have not turned up since their initial issue? Also if I missed anybody when I sent out the stereo MP3's of "Woman" & " Witch Doctor", drop me a E-mail and I will get them out to you. I was a little overwhelmed with the requests for these songs and might have missed a couple of people. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-11 11:36:40 Comments: I enjoyed reading about the "Hey Look What I Found" series. These are my favorite type of series, because they dont have the same old stuff, like "My Boyfriends Back" on 'em. A similar series was the "Jukebox Treasures" series, supposedly from Israel (yea right, I'll bet it was Huntington, Long Island!!) So, who knows who has the cheapest price on the "Look What I Found" series?? Anybody? Collectors choice wants like 20.00 each. Someone must have a better price than that. Mikey |
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Name: Ralph
Curcio Website: From: N.J. Time: 2000-01-11 12:19:33 Comments: Along with "Hey Look What I Found," another good source for obscure 45s on CD is the "Mr. Maestro" series. This concentrates on '50s and early '60s doo wop, with rarities like "Kingdom of Love" by The Preludes, "White Cliffs of Dover" by The Robins, "Lovely Dee" by The Untouchables and the original (pre-Gentrys) version of "Keep on Dancing" by The Avantis. Plus, there are some great stereo rarities that I don't think have surfaced elsewhere on CD, including "You've Got What it Takes" by Marv Johnson, "Souvenirs of Summer" by The Rays, Frankie Ford's cover of "You Talk Too Much" and "Each Night" by Rochelle and the Candles. Sound quality leaves something to be desired at times, but the stereo cuts sound quite good. For just enjoying the music of simpler times (remember that pleasure?), it's a fun listen. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-11 13:58:22 Comments: Sorry, Dean, but you can cross "Cradle Of Love" off your wants list. I have it, or had it, at one time, and it is not stereo. The label says it's stereo, but it's not. Sounds mono to me, or slightly rechanneled. I don't know about "Goodbye Jimmy, Goodbye". |
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Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, Oklahoma Time: 2000-01-11 16:22:26 Comments: Continental Records of Ontario (www.gocontinental.com) was selling the Mavis "Look What I Found!" discs at $20 Canadian or $14 US, plus shipping, last I looked. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-11 19:31:30 Comments: Watch that talk about My Boyfriend's Back, Mikey, or you too might get an email telling you how important it was to issue that song yet again on CD. (I've got an even dozen of 'em now.) To Luke: your question about the Kinks in Stereo got me to thinking, so I started hunting for the Rhino in various places on the net. Turns out the Rhino is OOP, but MoFi did a two-fer back in '96 that's still available from at least a couple of mail order places that aren't that well known. I'm toying with buying this one before it disappears, but would like to know if anyone here has the CD. How 'bout it Dave? Marv Johnson's Move Two Mountains sounds like it's in Stereo on the EMI Lost Hits Of The Sixties (19552), but I have not checked the CD lately. All my other Marv Johnson stuff is mono according to my database. I kinda think that using noise reduction in mastering to CD is like putting a strip of gauze in front of your TV while you're watching it. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-11 19:59:41 Comments: I have to agree with the Ralph Curcio's assessment of the Mr. Maestro series. Items turn up on those CDs that never turn up on any of the other reissue labels, with occasional stereo rarities. The Mavis label isn't always hot for stereo, though. Two tracks I wanted in stereo, "Just Once More" by Rita Pavone (RCA flip side of "Remember Me," which was the "A" side in Boston) and "Hey, Look Me Over" by The Pete King Chorale (originally on Kapp) are both mono. Does anyone know of stereo CD issues on these two tracks? How about Marilyn Maye's RCA recording of "Step to the Rear?" Lots of people remember the record, but it never charted! The single was mid-60s, and the label had Nipper on the left side. |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 2000-01-11 20:26:27 Comments: Tom, Yes I remember Step to the Rear, but not as a single. Marylyn Maye had an album of big band/show tunes kind of material about 1967 on RCA. There is where you will find a stereo recording of this tune, if you can. The mid sixties produced a plethora of great easy listening tunes with supurb arrangements and excellent vocals, especially group (choral) recordings, and orchestral recordings of pop tunes. Columbia, A & M, and Capital must have an enormous amount of great stuff in their vaults. I loved a Stu Phillips lp on ColPix that had some of the most beautiful music I have ever heard. Lush, orchestral arrangements with vocal over tones ala Percy Faith of pop tunes of the time. Late night listening Supremeo! Remember the Hollyridge Strings and their easy listening versions of among others the Beatles? I believe there are many people like myself who would purchase music like this if reissues of whole lps were put out. How much could it cost to do? Peanuts, I would think. Efforts to accomplish the same thing in today's recording studios and with today's "sound" that I have heard just don't cut it. Too much synthesizer effect (cheesy in a way that doesn't work)! |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-01-11 21:24:33 Comments: The full contents of Rita Pavone's U.S. RCA album is found on her Bear Family CD "Wennichein Junge War" (BCD 15585), which includes "Just Once More" and a number of her German-sung hits. Top quality, too. |
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Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 2000-01-12 00:08:17 Comments: To :Steve Baird - Re: The Kinks You Really Got Me and Kinda Kinks on Mo-Fi--The first album is great stereo (except for the hit single You Really Got Me.) The second album on the disc, Kinda Kinks is all mono, which is decent quality but it is a big letdown when the stereo ends after track 14 and the mono starts on track 15. I think the disc is worth getting just for the wonderful 1st lp in stereo. The "You really got me" single track has some wierd echo that I've never noticed before. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-12 02:01:41 Comments: I, too, like the Mavis discs, for the same reason that most of you do...They give us tracks that no one else would bother with, so most of us would die, waiting for them to come out on cd. They don't sound great, but they'll do, until better versions are released. I have all of them, and several other discs like them, and I'll buy more, if they are released. In fact, I wish I knew how to contact them, so that I could send in my wants lists. Wouldn't it be great if there was a place that would search, find, and record our wants lists onto cds for us? I would pay a good price for such a service. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-12 06:37:34 Comments: To Jay (and others): Regarding "easy listening" music and other genres, I've stated for years that "there is good and bad in all genres of music. Nothing is any good unless the listener likes it. That's the beauty of any art form - it's subjective, however popularity has nothing whatsoever to do with quality." I always cite "Disco Duck" as an example of this. As music it's junk, but it was a #1 record! On the other hand, Tiny Tim's Reprise LP God Bless Tiny Tim, was a beautifully orchestrated (Gordon Jenkins), well-produced (Richard Perry), tongue-in-cheek album that wasn't meant to take itself seriously. I have many "beautiful music" albums in my library by Percy Faith, Mantovani, The Melachrino Strings, just as I have Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, and Jimi Hendrix. I also have Frank Sinatra, Nat "King" Cole, Doris Day and Keely Smith (sans Louis Prima). These artists have been recognized as being tops in their respective genres, and I appreciate their artistry. You couldn't give me a Perry Como or John Gary album, but there are collectors and music fans out there who like their styles and have their albums in their libraries. My point here is that while musical tastes differ between collectors, we all have one thing in common, and that's the desire to obtain the best sources of our likes that we can find. None of us should ever feel embarrased about discussing music we've collected or that which we want to own. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-12 08:35:40 Comments: Tom, I agree. We all have our own likes and dislikes and all art forms are suggestive which as you said means that nothing is good unless one does like it. I have lots of music in my collection that I am not a fan of, but have taken the recordings anyway due to the fact that the price was right. |
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Name: steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-12 09:02:16 Comments: Great post, Tom! Regarding Disco Duck, I've got a little story that some might find amusing: Just at the time that the song was a hit, I had traveled to a college in Tennessee to visit with a guy who was writing a book. I had a 10:00 AM appointment with him. I awoke a bit early that morning, and could not get back to sleep. So, groggy and a bit testy from getting less than 4 hours sleep, I got up, and went out to find a restaurant near the campus to have breakfast. It was about 5:00 AM when I found one. It was deserted when I entered. I sat in a booth and was reading the morning paper when two teenaged girls came in and sat down at a table. A few minutes later, one of them headed for the jukebox. She put quarter after quarter into it. Seconds later, Disco Duck blared out of the box. "Oh, please," I thought to myself. My breakfast arrived just as the song ended -- only to play again and again and again. Then the juke box stopped playing, so the young lady went back to it and put 8 more quarters in it so that they could hear, you guessed it, Disco Duck some more. Instead of finishing my breakfast, I got up and left. I can't tell you if it was mono or stereo. |
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Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 2000-01-12 09:14:21 Comments: Re: Steve Baird - Sorry, don't have that MO FI Kinks title, although I wish I did. I do however, have Mobile Fidelity's re-issue of Rick Dees Greatest Hit. There's only one track, but it's in glorious stereo. Put your CD player on repeat....no quarters necessary. Can I make you a copy? |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-12 09:53:52 Comments: Kinks - I'm looking at CDNow right now. They've got it (MoFi twofer) for $18.18 but it's on backorder. I'd say it's probably worth a shot though if you are looking for it... |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Metro Time: 2000-01-12 10:30:45 Comments: Isn't today's CD technology wonderful! We can slip a couple of Mavis "Hey Look" recordings, an Eric "Hard to Find" disc, a Varese "Discoveries" disc, and a "Mr. Maestro" into our five disc player, hit shuffle, and presto! There you have a five hour "radio" program, with no commercials, no interruptions, wonderful variety, and depending on your reception area, better than radio sound. I have done this many times, had to go out, just left it playing, came back an hour later, and it's like the Energizer bunny, it keeps going and going. It is truly a luxury to be able to slip a Bobby Rydell disc in next to a Best of Motown, next to Best of Girl Groups, next to the Col Pix Demension story, next to Nippers Greatest Hits. One disc among the five can be the "spotlight artist of the day" be it Frankie Avalon, Rick Nelson, Elvis, or Buddy Holly. The rest are comps. Excellent personalized programming, and wonderful for entertaining! This is sometimes the overlooked value of compact disc technology. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-12 12:51:07 Comments: Disco Duck is a novelty record! It wasn't meant to be serious. I enjoy hearing it every now and then, but I can only take so much. BTW, by 1976, when Disco Duck came out, most recoedings were cdertainly stereo. I have walked out of stores because they put on modern country music or reggae/rap. I find the stuff irritating. |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, NJ Time: 2000-01-12 12:56:38 Comments: Okay people, we've got a mystery on our hands!! I just got from Dean my MP3 copy of the stereo "Woman" by Peter & Gordon, and I was anxious to hear it. I was deeply involved with Ron Furmanek and the cancelled Peter & Gordon Collector's Series CD back in 1991, and I've had a (crappy) cassette dub of the final master since then. I was advising Ron on things technical, and assisted in a process that would have presented the early P&G 2-track material in a different, more coherent mix. (This process was also used on the Hollies 30th Anniversary package that did get released.) I was curious to hear how good this copy was, and was I shocked. THIS IS NOT RON FURMANEK'S MIX!! I don't know WHERE this came from, but, people, believe me, this ain't what Ron did! For one, the type and amount of reverb is very close to the original mono mix. (Ron and I had great arguments about his mixes around that point. I always was telling him his mixes were too dry and didn't have enough compression/limiting. he also refused to listen to the original records themselves, preferring to reference the mono master tapes for his stereo remixes only.) Also, the image is mixed very 60's-ish, meaning rhythm track on one side, overdubs and strings/horns on the other, and vocals dead center. This was a 4 track master that had vocals on one track, bass, drums, electric rhythm guitar on one track, strings/horns, one track, and percussion, lead guitar, piano and double tracked vocal sections on the last track, so Ron mixed it rhythm & vocals center, string/horns on the left, and the overdub track on the right (except for the doubled vocals which were panned closer to the center.) Much more coherent. If he just added some more analog (plate) reverb on it, and just compressed it a smidgen, it would have been perfect. So this becomes: who did this mix, and when? It wasn't mixed to stereo in 1966, and forgotten on a shelf. There was NO evidence of even an attempt to mix to stereo according to all available documentation, so this must be a new attempt by somebody else. Homework assignment: Find out more abouth this mix! |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-12 15:25:40 Comments: Re: "Woman". Now THATS interesting...I wonder who did THAT mix? Maybe it was mixed to stereo in the 70's sometime, for a P&G Greatest hits that was shelved, or something like that. Or maybe it was just one of the engineers goofing around at Abbey Road. There are Beatles mixes like that , that have no documentation, that the engineers did sort of on the fly. In reference to Chips observation that it was a very "60ish" mix, that may point to it having been done in the late '60s or early '70s. Personally, I never did understand engineers remixing '60s material to sound more contemporary. If its 60's stuff, mix it the way it would have been mixed in 1966!! Thats the only way its going to sound "right" to peoples ears. I never had a problem with backing tracks on the left, strings/overdubs on the right and the vocals in the center. I think thats the way period stuff SHOULD sound. Listen to The CBS Velvets Cd "Tonite...May Be The Night", for example. It sounds wonderful. Just my two cents. Note to Chris : Have all the Multitrack tapes for the Monkees fist LP been recovered by RCA? That is one Cd that needs to be remixed, BADLY. I'm sure its only 4 track, since it was 1966, but at least with the tools available today, they could do a lot better than the crappy Cd thats been issued. The 1980's Arista CD is horrible...the Rhino remaster not so bad, but Gerry McGee's lead guitar still sounds puny and screetchy on both releases. Any info on this one would be appreciated. Mikey |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-12 15:46:28 Comments: Re: The Dave Clark Five Since I've gotten several emails regarding this, I'll post here and try to answer your questions on the stereo DC5 tracks. 1) The stereo versions of the DC5 hits were NOT available in stereo, and were not even mixed to stereo during their heydey. Dave Clark mixed the 3 and 4 track masters to mono only for release. In 1971, Columbias (the English label, not the American) 10 year contract with Dave for the DC5 material was coming to an end, so while they still had possession of the masters, they mixed the hits into stereo for the 1971 "The Dave Clark Five" Lp . Thats still the best DC5 stereo LP around. These are the only stereo mixes of the hits ever done. They are the same mixes EMI licensed in 1976 for the "15 World Million Sellers" LP. The 1976 EPIC LP "Glad All Over Again" was all mono. (I still have this LP, and the EMI, by the way). The first TRUE stereo DC5 LP issued was "Everybody Knows" (yes, a different song than the 1964 hit) in 1968. Also issued in stereo then was the "5 X 5" LP, with the chart hits "19 Days" and "Ive Got To Have a Reason" in stereo. Finding those two LPs in stereo is really difficult, but they are out there. I've also been informed that there is a Euro boot Cd of the "Coast to Coast" and "American Tour" LPs. I imagine that these are of the same crappy quality of all the other Euro boots.....the EPIC pressings were so over modulated and pressed on kiddie proof cheap vinyl that even clean transfers dont sound all that good. Hopefully, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Dave will make a deal to issue the LPs in the Cd format from the original tapes. Mikey, your local DC5 and Ventures stereo maniac!! |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-01-12 16:22:37 Comments: Hi everyone...been a while for me. As for the Peter & Gordon track, I too think that stereo mix floating around has that real sixties feel. I much prefer it to the rechanneled version (as I'm sure we all do!). I join in the "wondering who did it crowd". My copy is missing the last couple of seconds however. Is everyone else's? If there's a non-truncated version around, I'd love it! Please let me know! As for DC5, I have a copy of that true stereo 5 X 5 LP on Epic, as well as that famous 1971 LP. "19 Days" appears in a different mix on 5X5 than that was done in 1971 (which to me makes the latter a remix). |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-12 22:52:11 Comments: Just a couple of quickies ... To Steve Baird: I repectfully disagree with your assessment that "using noise reduction in mastering to CD is like putting a strip of gauze in front of your TV while you're watching it." I believe it's more like adjusting your color, brightness and contrast controls for maximum viewing pleasure. Of course, one can always boost the color too much... Oh yeah, Steve, that Marv Johnson "Move Two Mountains" track is stereo, but balanced badly. The lead vocals are far left and mixed low, and are overwhelmed by the background vocals which are far right and mixed hot ... which segues nicely to Mike's comment: "Personally, I never did understand engineers remixing '60s material to sound more contemporary. If its 60's stuff, mix it the way it would have been mixed in 1966!! Thats the only way its going to sound "right" to peoples ears." Again, I disagree. As has been mentioned before in these posts, the stereo mix was often an afterthought. Now is the time to mix them "right" -- that is, with the care now, that should've been taken then. |
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Name: Alan Time: 2000-01-12 23:04:10 Comments: This stereo chat board must have a small, well-connected group of people. Ok, I own the Dave Clark 5 (US EG 30434) and the Best of (UK Regal Starline 5037), and have been told the US copies of 5 By 5 (Epic BN 26236), Got What It Takes (Epic BN 26312) and Everyone Knows (Epic BN 263534) are true stereo LP’s. Does any body know the stereo content of other DC Five LPs such as If Somebody Loves You (UK Columbia SCX 6437), Play That Good Old Rock & Roll (UK Regal Starline 5090) and Dave Clark and Friends (UK Columbia 6494) or a A Session With DC5 (UK MFP 1260)? According to interviews with Dave Clark, he originally leased the music to EMI for a period of three years, and then he re-licensed every year in accordance with the top royalty rate anyone on the label was getting paid. He has also stated that he regretted mixing the songs into stereo in the early & 70’s because he felt they lost their punch. The stereo versions, in my opinion are much more dynamic than the squashed mono versions. The copy I have of Dave Clark 5 (US EG 30434) is a dynaflex and suffers in that respect, the UK pressings/mastering are much better. Any information would be appreciated. |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-01-13 00:52:44 Comments: There is an album favorite of mine which I believe would be a wonderful reissue or "twofer". Doris Day recorded an LP entitled "Latin for Lovers". Lots of soft bossanova songs with quiet and exquisite arrangements, quite well recorded. The way her voice blended with the high quality material and backing produced what I believe is truly a "collectors item". A musical gem which is ready to be unearthed again on CD. Does anyone feel Sony would reissue this album? Ms. Day has lots of her material released on CD, but I have never seen this or any of the songs on it, combined on any compact disc. To me, this is the high point of her musical career so far as artistry goes. Would a label such as Taragon or Varese be inclined to entertain the thought of a reissue such as this? Does Sony release material like this for license arrangment? I notice Collectables is doing vintage material from major labels in two-fer or expanded form, music from the pre-rock era, or easy listening from the fifties and sixties. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-13 02:26:49 Comments: To Jay Connors - the Doris Day LP "Latin For Lovers" is available from Sony UK as part of a two-fer. The other LP is called "Love Him" . The catalog number is 481018 2 and you can probably order it from any CD online company. Or, if you prefer, you may send three First Class airline tickets and a cashier's check to cover one week's accommodations at the Savoy Hotel in London for Steve Massie, Dave Daugherty and myself (please also include a liberal per diem for food, entertaining, theater tickets, etc.) and we'll be glad to bring you back a Doris Day CD... GRATIS!! If you don't want to order an import, you may want to wait. I think it's coming out on Mr. Maestro but I'm not sure how good the sound will be! |
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Name: Bill
Knoble From: Dallas Time: 2000-01-13 04:16:53 Comments: ACCESSING ARCHIVES: I just realized I have a problem in accessing all 5 Archive links. I can actually access each link, but, the COMPLETE page doesn't display, giving me only about the 1st month of posts. When I get to the bottom of the page, there's a message saying: "This page is too big to load completely". Since I don't have a computer, I use WebTV to access the Internet. I figured it was a WebTV browser problem (and still do), however, a friend of mine and I used her Mac with AOL and still had problems. While we didn't get the "Page Too Big... message, we were constantly being automatically logged-off the Internet after only about 1/3 of the page was displayed. This happened 4 times in a row. Now, this could have been an Mac/AOL bug, but, it's ironic to have had problems with 2 different systems. WebTV Customer Service has been of NO help whatsoever, so I plead my case to you. Could some of you (especially WebTV users) e-mail me (by clicking on my name above), if you have had any Archive accessing problems. Thanks for your input. |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, New Jersey Time: 2000-01-13 10:18:58 Comments: For Alan, here's the DC5 info you requested: "If Somebody Loves You", "Play That Good Old Rock & Roll", and the "Dave Clark & Friends" LP's are 100% true stereo (Including the 1965 "Reeling & Rocking" track on "Play That Good Old Rock & Roll") "Session..." is a straight mono reissue of that early '64 Columbia (UK) LP. I too find Dave's stereo remixes much better than their mono counterparts (With the exception of "Bits & Pieces" and "Can't You See That She's Mine", which are missing overdubs heard in the mono mixes.) Hope this helps. |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-01-13 10:22:01 Comments: Marty, Three first class tickets on a new outfit called "Seat of Your Pants Airline and Storm Door Co."(SYPASD Air) are on the way, along with an internet voucher good to cash at any Bulgaria Federal Savings and Loan (with three branches world wide, the closest to you being in Oakland.) I included several excess coupons I had been saving for discounts on "Happy Meals" at McDonalds Greenwich Village location, which I'm told will be accepted at the Picadilly Circus Wimpys in London. You really surprised me with this information, as I thought all the great sounding reissues were coming out on Mavis these days. Bon Voyage ala Janice Harper. Oh, and yes, flight insurance valued at one hundred dollars per person if the plane crashes was gratis. Who says all the up and coming businesses are high tech? |
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Name: mike
arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-13 11:52:34 Comments: Re:DC5 Chip.....what overdubs of "Cant You See" and "Bits and Pieces" are you referring to?? There are two versions of "Cant You See" floating around, One has drum fills every bar, the other has none. But Im not aware of any overdubs missing. On Bits and Pieces, there is a possibility that they added more "foot stomps" to the mono for single release. I'll have to go home tonite and listen. Is that what you meant? I'm sort of a DC5 maniac, and need to explore these things!! ---Mikey |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: San Fran. bay area Time: 2000-01-13 12:36:15 Comments: In case the Sam Cooke disc gets deleted, you can find "Another Saturday Night" in stereo [great mix] on Session's Presents 62 Golden Greats [RCA spec prod] DVL2-0266-2 on record side C. Why could spec. prod find but real RCA couldn't? DC5 best so farEMI RegalSRS-5037, what a find! |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, New Jersey Time: 2000-01-13 13:20:52 Comments: Mikey: There are NOT 2 versions of "Can't You See that She's Mine" - Those drum fills, and couple of extra vocals are overdubs to the basic track (which was used to generate the stereo mix). The "bare" mix was issued on LP here in the States, while the "drum fill" version was used on the US single. I'm not sure about original overseas releases, though. (All LP compilations in America used the "bare" version) "Bits & Pieces" in stereo is not only missing the "footstomps", it's missing extra cymbal crashes, tambourine stings, handclaps, and a doubled drum track (Something Dave was very fond of doing.) [I'm a drummer,can't help it...] |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 14:00:42 Comments: I'm glad I bought my copy of "Sam Cook's Greatest Hits" that came out two years ago when it came out before they pulled the track,"Another Saturday Night" on it. I prefer to hear the DC5 tracks as originally mixed by Dave Clark, mono. They may not all sound so great, but that's the way it was... On some sources, it is possible, with the right software and a skilled engineer, it is possible to reduce noise on a song without any perceptable degredation in sound. I do it all the time. later |
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Name: Alan From: Phoenix Time: 2000-01-13 14:38:36 Comments: I have had a problem with discs manufactured by PDO France. They have small pinholes that become larger over time making the disc unreadable. I am amazed that there is not discussion about this manufacturer of compact discs. They made allot of discs for smaller UK labels such as New Rose, Bam Caruso and Charley in the early days of compact disc. My best of the Doors, PDO was the manufacturer the first remastered edition, is rotted beyond being playable. There was a Left Banke CD, which had the original mixes on Bam Caruso, that I was able to copy and manually remove the damaged digital sections with the digital sound editor and transfer them to a CD-R. If you have any discs that are made by this manufacture, hold them up to the light too see how much damage has accrued. They can have either many small pinholes are large sections of the metal film missing, much like the MCA Discovision laserdiscs. Copying these discs is the only way of saving your investment. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 14:51:31 Comments: Alan, I don't know what kind of experience you're having with pinholes, but this is an old story that was put to rest in the early 90's. Assuming proper storage of CD's, pinholes do not degrade the sound quality or render Cd's unplayable. I have tons of CD's with pinholes from fifteen years ago, and every one of them playback perfectly. Perhaps this plant is churning out substandard discs, or your player is acting up with Cd's made from that manufacturer. A laser either from a CD player or burner cannot "rot" any disc. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-13 15:40:12 Comments: I have never heard of problems with French PDO discs, but I know a lot of discs from the UK PDO plant have gone bad over the years - in particular a couple of Who CDs. I recently tried to copy one and my CD-R drive had a *very* hard time reading it. As for DC5 - the second I saw "I want to hear the mono mixes" I thought "must be beetle" - I'm getting good at this...;-) |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-13 23:44:05 Comments: Re: DC5.....Chip is right!! Went home and listen to "Cant You See" and Bits & Pieces", A/B'd the stereo and mono vesions back to back. The mono "Bits and Pieces" def had added handclaps, tamborine and footstomps...not so sure about a doubled drum track tho....I think they just poured more plate reverb on the existing one.(Chip...I'm a drummer also by the way...26 years!!) On "Cant You See", Chip is also correct. The single version is the "bare drum" version with Dave adding fills "over the top", and Mike Smith adding some vocal parts. Chip.....youre a good detective! Hey, anything up with The Monkees? Mikey |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 23:54:23 Comments: Hey! I'm a drummer too, for 27 years, now. This is another example of my position with the stereo/mono thing. You just can't get some things in stereo the way the singles sounded. And, as long as Dave Clark is alive, don't expect him to ever remix those tapes into stereo that matches the mono mixes, if it's even possible. If it were, he probably would have done so the first time, back in the seventies. |
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Name: Jesus Website: From: San Juan, PR Time: 2000-01-14 01:27:29 Comments: mmm... does air drumming count? ;) Alan: heat and humidity accelerate the pinholing (I know, i live in the tropics) some of my oldests CD's (17 yo) have them now and some skip in places on puter CD drives ('home' players seem to handle them better) So as beetle said, good storage conditions are the main thing. Better keep those CD's in cold dry air-conditioned rooms and make a CD-R backup of any suspect disc. Best would be to keep them in Nitrogen (inert gas) filled cold controlled containers but CD-R's are cheaper than that and more convinient ;) Ain't technology grand? I agree with beetle on the stereo/mono sounding different. The ONLY way a stereo tape would sound exactly like a mono tape would be if it was a hard left hard right 2 track master used to make the mono mix, and no reverb was used. Any other would have slight level shifting and phase cancellations among the diferent components when mixed to mono and/or stereo. (And even if they used the same EXACT kind of reverb as for the mono one, the mono tape's reverb and music have to come from the "center", while on the stereo the reverb would be either coming from the "center" while the music came left and right, or the separate reverbs from each channel's instruments would be coming from their respective's l-r positions, and even in that simple case it would sound different in feel and ambiance. As you add tracks and effects the differences get greater exponentially. Too bad that both versions aren't always available... |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-14 04:47:59 Comments: Uh, Jesus, now they're gonna remind us of all those great Bob Irwin/Vic Anesini stereo remixes. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-14 08:16:02 Comments: RE the MoFi Kinks. Luke, obviously the "out of stock" notice at the CD site you mentioned in your post (forget which one it was) means that your order for it will simply reside in their computer for 30 days, and then be expunged, since there is NO distribution for their products in place. BUT, after much searching, last nite I actually found 2 sites that CLAIM to have it in stock, so I ordered a copy from each of them. Their prices were $23.88 and $19.99. It's too soon to know whether EITHER one of them will really have a copy to send out, but if they both do have it, I will have an unneeded copy available for anyone here who wants it. email me if you are interested. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org/ From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-14 09:26:26 Comments: Steve, re: I'm not exactly sure how CDNow works, but it's possible one of their distributer's warehouses has it. Who knows - the worst that can happen is the disc doesn't come. Beetle - thanks for the reminder on the Bob Irwin remixes! That's where it's at! Now if he'd only get those Simon & Garfunkel albums done... |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, NJ Time: 2000-01-14 09:57:58 Comments: Beetle: DC5, all evidence suggests that those percussive/vocal overdubs were added to the mono master, and don't exist on any multi-track tape. Hence, their non-appearence on DC's stereo remixes. I heard years ago a Mike Smith interview where he mentioned that several DC5 songs were gone back to after the initial final mixing to be "punched up". He mentioned specifically "Bits & Peices", because he claimed it was his idea to add the pounding, etc. Mikey: The Monkees are low priority at Rhino right now, unfortunately. I too, would love to see a proper remix of the first 2 LP's, but keep this in mind: In a "Hit Parader" magazine from '67, Boyce & Hart were interviewed, and discussed at length how the "thin, pancake like" sound of the 1st Lp was intentional. So I have reservations that the instrumental multi-tracks would have more body and depth than what we're hearing now. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-01-14 19:20:14 Comments: Friends and stereophiles, now we're getting into some amusing territory: PDO discs. Up until, say, 1994, discs mfd by PDO in either West Germany or Tennessee (at least, I'm told that's where it was) was silver from the outer edge all the way to the hole. I didn't exactly care for that, in that fingerprints are easily visible on a silver surface. And yes, PDO discs back then were pinhole city - even brand new. Thank goodness they've improved from that point on. But I've never heard of pinholes popping up over time. I've had no problem with England's PDO discs, but I have none from France. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-14 19:45:45 Comments: Regarding PDO discs from West Germany, I've had a few turn completely transparent in some places, like the silver has totally oxidized! Many of these were on Verve, but some were Mercury and others were Polydor. One was on WB, the "Twin Peaks" soundtrack. Go figure... |
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Name: Andrew Website: Referred by: AOL From: Atlanta metro area Time: 2000-01-15 08:08:15 Comments: OK, here's a question for the experts out there. Has anyone ever seen a reissue of the following minor chart single: in late 1975 a Boston-based group called the Road Apples reached #35 with their song "Let's Live Together" (Polydor 14285). Was this ever on a LP, much less CD? Thanks for any info. |
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Name: Martin
Nathan Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester,MA Time: 2000-01-15 12:36:39 Comments: Let's Live Together by the Road Apples is another of those long forgotten 70's hits. 70's music is probably the most unfairly maligned decade ever for music. It's certainly better than the 90's stuff. As for LLT, it don't think it's ever come out on CD, but I suppose if songs like MovieStar by Harpo are out on CD, anything can be. I once read somewhere that the RA's were actually from Worcester, but I don't remember them. I remember The Joneses, Mad Angel, Zonkaraz, Joanne Barnard,etc. Martin Nathan |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-15 18:57:18 Comments: Seventies music is maligned from all sides! Older people don't like it and twentysomethings and teens don't like it. What gives? There are a lot of people who think it was all disco. Not true! In fact, disco, while present throughout the seventies, only enjoyed mass popularity for a good two and a half years 1978-1980. If many people would open their minds and ears, they would hear tons of great music created during the seventies decade. My personal gripe is that there isn't much late seventies and early eighties soul and R&B on CD. You'd be surprised how many LP's and singles from this period that i've transferred to CD. beetlefan |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-15 19:30:43 Comments: beetlefan, as you know, I'm a twentysomething that likes 70's music much more than 90's music. |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-15 19:54:33 Comments: When I think of the 70's, I think of Elton, Grand Funk, Captain & Tenille, Bad Co., Led Zep, Steely Dan, corporate rock and the demise of AM radio ... |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-15 20:18:53 Comments: Speaking of AM radio, I have had a couple of AM music stations that braodcasted locally here until the early 1990's and the formats since then have changed to all sports (KBUN 1450 AM) and all talk (KKBJ AM 1360) to compete with all of the other areas. Our local FM radio stations are either public radio stations, a college station that mostly plays top 40 with a notable exception of Thursday nights when they play early rock and roll and bluegrass music, a couple of AC stations (one of the AC stations, KKBJ FM "Mix 103.7" carries "Super Gold" Saturday nights) , quite a few country stations (KBHP 101.1 plays almost strictly modern country and WBJI 98.3 FM which used to be the local oldies station here, as I've said before, is part of ABC's "Real Country" satellite network which broadcasts vintage and current country music), an AOR station, a Contemporary Christian music station, in other words, Christian Rock, from nearby Fosston, Minnesota with clear reception and local coverage (KKEQ 107.1 FM). |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-16 00:42:08 Comments: Joe, funny you mention "corporate rock". Many people use that term to mean faceless rock bands that sound alike. What bands sounded alike? Foreigner had a unique sound. Styx had a different sound. Journey, whatever you may think of them, had their own sound but had many imitators that didn't pop up until the eighties. The record companies didn't say, "let's start a band with a calculated sound in order to make millions". Actually, the eighties and nineties decades produced music that could be truly regarded as "corporate rock". I'm not even talking about "hair" bands. I mean Backtreet Boys, New Kids On The Block, Ricky Martin, ect.. They did this in the sixtes as well. remember The Monkees? The Archies? In my mind, Motown, yes, Motown was the ultimate in "corporate rock"! Sorry, I had to get that out. I feel better now. beetlefan |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-16 01:24:12 Comments: Beetle:Touche. Actually, there was much in the 70's I really like. As a decade though, you must admit, the 70's were a bit tepid compared to the 50's, 60's and even the 80's. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-16 02:13:31 Comments: As far as the 70's go, my friends say that after 1973, rock and roll died. I disagree, of course. It just changed styles. But soul music died. Except for an occasional Al Green, War, or Tina Turner, soul music doesn't exist for me, after 1970. Disco was bad enough, but today's Top 40 is almost without merit, in my opinion. And today's country music is nothing but pop. So, back to the oldies, for me. Is it any wonder that I have a cd player in my pickup, now? But, to each their own. That still leaves hundreds of thousands of songs worth listening to. So, I'm not complaining. |
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Name: R.
Hitchcock Website: Hitchcock Media Records From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-16 03:20:24 Comments: A Group from Tampa, the Rockers, recorded "Would I Still Be Loving You" on Warwick Records under the name The Tides, back in the late 60's. It was only a regional hit and has never shown up as a re-issue anywhere. It's also not listed in the Warwick discography. My 45 is severely scratched from repeated play. Does anyone have or know of a source for a clean copy? |
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Name: Vinny
Haynes Time: 2000-01-16 03:21:30 Comments: I like to know what is the story w/ the "latest issue" of BSN since the Last issue in March '99??? I'm looking forward to it.............Thanx VH NYC |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-16 04:29:28 Comments: Joe Srigle, To me, the 50's were very tepid compared to the 70's. Alice Cooper come to mind. How about "Frankenstein" by the Edgar Winter Group, or even Cheech and Chong? John, how about Earth, Wind And Fire, The Ohio Players, Johnny Taylor, Frankie Beverly and Maze, Rufus featuring Chaka Khan? There's TONS of great soul music after 1973. Teddy Pendergrass...Stevie Wonder...Marvin Gaye...The Temptations...Aretha Franklin...The Chi-lites...Joe Simon...I could go on all day! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-16 04:47:12 Comments: John Preston, one more, the BEST soul group of the seventies, hands down, came from Scotland! THE AVERAGE WHITE BAND aka AWB. I strongly urge you to pick up one of their CD's on Atlantic. I'll even pay for them if you don't like them. But you will like them. Or, you can get a Rufus CD. You just gotta listen! beetlefan |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-16 04:57:07 Comments: Heh-heh! I'd better fix that. I'll pay for only one, (1) uno AWB or Rufus CD only if you don't like it. Uh, I wouldn't want to pay for the whole catalog. :-) |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-16 15:24:48 Comments: Keep your money, Beetlefan. But, thanks, anyway. I hated AWB and Rufus, along with most of the 70's soul groups (AWB was a jazz band, in my opinion). The only 70's artists that I liked a lot were Johnny Taylor, Chi-lites, Al Green, Joe Simon, Spinners, Staples, etc. Most were holdovers from the sixties. By the late 70's, there was no reason to even listen to soul. It was headed in a jazz/rap/disco/dance/pop direction, and I never liked it after that. By the way, if you are after a good cd by 70's soul singer, Bobby Womack, watch out. His early hits are hard to find, now. The compilations, such as "The Masters", Eagle Records EAB CD 044 (lisensed from Charly) contain rerecordings of his early hits. I still haven't found the single version of "Fly Me To The Moon". Anyone know where that one is located? |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-16 15:52:25 Comments: Oh come on, Beetle. There's no way Alice -- or anyone from the 70's -- can compare with those brilliant 50's icons who ushered in the era we call rock n roll. 70's artists sold more records to be sure, but personal stereos proliferated in that decade, as well as the emergence of the record album as the drug of choice over the 45 rpm. It was also the decade (shall I say it?) when major record companies recognized rock as a major source of income. Small labels were gobbled up by big ones and RECORD people lost their decision-making policies to lawyers and accountants. Tours evolved from clubs to stadiums and arenas. Big business, big bucks. That's what I mean by corporate rock. I'm not saying the 70's were bad musically -- just different. A final thought: I was working with a young guitarist in the early 80's and suggested he add some "Chuck Berry" licks to the tune he was working on. He had no idea what I meant -- until I said "you know, like the guitar in 'Hot Legs'." |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-16 17:05:19 Comments: The 70's also produced Gordon Lightfoot's biggest hits, Jimmy Buffett's major hits, Carole King's "Tapestry" album, Rick Nelson's "Garden Party," "Grease," The Carpenters, Herb Alpert's "Rise" album (in 1979), the Charlie Daniels Band's early hits up to and including "The Devil Went Down To Georgia," The Partridge Family, The Bay City Rollers, The Osmonds, The Brady Bunch, "American Pie," Olivia Newton-John's early hits (her biggest hit on the charts was 1981's "Physical",) John Denver's biggest hits, etc. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-16 17:49:56 Comments: Joe, you're correct. But then, I didn't show up until 1962. I didn't live the 50's first hand. John, I understand where your soul sense is. That's cool. I like it all too. But we part veiws there. But, disco killed soul in the 70's, you know. |
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Name: Walt
Haake Website: The Mists of Avalon From: Princeton, NJ Time: 2000-01-16 21:17:10 Comments: I'm glad the conversation here has shifted for the moment from all the technical stuff to banter about which decade had the best music. Of course it's entirely subjective, but it's fun. My theory is the best music of one's life happens when one is sixteen or seventeen. When you first get behind the wheel of a car and you start having real dates, the music on the radio means more to you than it ever has or will again. For me, 1967 and 1968 were the greatest years of music: flower power, clever instrumentation and production, a new consciousness, experimentation and the absolute highest elevation of the popular song. Whether it came from London, Memphis, San Francisco, Detroit, Boston or Los Angeles, the music of the late Sixties continues to enthrall me. But that may simply be because I was in the glory years of my teens, and the world was truly mine...and in stereo! |
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Name: Charles
Ellis From: Staten Island, NY Time: 2000-01-16 21:57:47 Comments: For my money's worth, the 60's was the best decade of the rock era. Why? The diversity- surf, southern soul, Chicago soul, "The Nashville Sound" created by Owen Bradley, the Brill Building sound, Motown, the British Invasion, the San Francisco scene with the Airplane, Janis & Jimi, garage bands, girl groups, the Stax/Volt acts, bubblegum studio groups (do the Monkees belong in this category?), the revival of doo-wop, the whole folk scene from Dylan & Baez to the Byrds and Simon & Garfunkel, easy listening faves like Frank, Barbra & Tony, crossover jazz by Cannonball Adderly & Ramsey Lewis, New York R&B by Atlantic, Sue, & Scepter, latin soul by Ray Barretto, Joe Bataan, & others, New Orleans coming thru with the Nevilles, Fats, & Irma Thomas, the geniuses of LA: Spector, Adler, Alpert & Wilson, all recording out of Gold Star Studios. Best of all, all these acts could compete openly on top 40-radio and later on the new FM stations without the restrictions on programming present today. There were no demographics: if the DJ or the programming director liked the record, it got airplay. Everything in radio is too "specialized" today. Now, I was born in '65, but I remember the good ol'days of WABC in the late 60s-early 70s when EVERY type of music was on the top 40. Why do all these types of music still hold their power over things recorded in the past 20 years? Simple- they're were all done with heart, spirit, and above all, artistry. BTW- can you guys recommend me CDs of 60s rarities by various artists, you know, the kind of singles that were "Bubbling Under" the Billboard Top 100 and are considered cult favorites by oldies buffs? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-17 00:10:07 Comments: Charles, I know what you mean! Everybody and virtually everything was represented on radio, AM and FM. For me, it all changed around mid 1975, when automated and specialized programming came into vouge. And I miss the obnoxious D.J. with the dumb jokes. THAT was radio! Too bad no one will do it anymore. Walter, the best music of my life lasted anywhere from when I was an infant to after college. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-17 01:24:37 Comments: Walt and Charles...amen to that. There will never be another musical era to equal the sixties. I'm convinced of it. The late Wolfman Jack said it best, about the years that began with disco...the music was (and is) sterile. Of course, that is not entirely true, but it's certainly true of a lot of it. Didn't someone say that a new disc of Joey Dee hits contained "Hey, Let's Twist" in stereo? I thought it was the two-disc anthology put out by Westside. Boy, was that a mistake! Not only is it mono, but so are "Peppermint Twist", "Roly Poly", and "Shout", among others. Just shows that I should write these things down, when they are mentioned. |
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Name: Richard From: Bellingham, Wash Time: 2000-01-17 02:05:34 Comments: I would like to add my 2 cents about our favorite musical time period with mine being the first half of the 60's. That (IMHO) was the only time (except maybe in the later 1950's) when disc jockeys had both power in what was played and good music to actually play. In my hometown of Bellingham, Wa. in 1962 one of the local jocks here locked himself in the control booth and played the Tornadoes' Telstar for at least 3 hours straight only breaking for commercials and the news on the hour and half hour. I also remember a jock at the same station two years later announcing how we, the listener, were at the mercy of his whim, musically speaking. He said if he was in a sad mood he would play sad songs and the same for upbeat, happy tunes. This was supposedly a top-40 station! I also remember them playing the latest Beatles' lp (Beatles' 65) featuring the cover tunes by the Fab Four and then playing the original versions which would be upheard of just a year or so later. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-17 04:46:19 Comments: Being just a tad older than some of the rest of you, I would have to go with 1954 through 1969 as my favorite years for music. 1954 was a great year since you could hear Perry Como, Jo Stafford and The Four Aces along with newcomers like The Crewcuts and Bill Haley & His Comets and all on the same radio station! The variety of pop music was really staggering... straight pop, country, novelties, movie and Broadway show tunes,international music and even some very early R&B. And then a within the next few years we were being exposed to some of the real greats: Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, The Platters, Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers, Jerry Lee Lewis and some of the early doo-wop groups. I think AM radio hit its stride with the exciting formats devised by Todd Storz and Gordon McLendon. Unfortunately in New York we didn't get to hear this kind of presentation until later years. I don't think you could beat stations like WABC, WMCA, WLS, KHJ and KFRC in the mid-60's. I sure miss the excitement of AM radio --- jingles, contests, fast talking jocks, a good rotation of hits and some type of consistent sound within a station's broadcast day. But I agree with many of the recent posts that the 60's were truly great years for music with all the variety... Motown, Stax, Phil Spector, Lieber & Stoller, English artists, west coast music and the quality of production achieved with 4 track and later 8 track. But the comment made by Walter in an earlier post is very significant... it's hard for me to relate to a lot of the current music out today and I find it hard to fathom that in 35 years from now people will look back at music from 2000 as we BSN people do with the reverence we have to music from 35 years ago. But as Walt points out, when you're 16 and 17 years old, music is a very important part of your life. So I guess anyone in that age group now is totally absorbed by today's current music and would probably listen to music from the 50's, 60's and 70's and say "gee, ya gotta be kidding!!" |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 2000-01-17 06:36:46 Comments: Marty, you can relive the glory days of AM top forty by visiting ReelRadio. A virtual museum of airchecks, available in RealAudio. Click the above and you'll be transported to my page....then navigate anywhere. BTW, if I had to narrow it down to a single year....1959, no question. Runner up '64. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-17 07:22:56 Comments: To Marty and everyone else, I'm in my late thirties, so it figures why I could look fondly to seventies music. But thanks to my family, I got my musical start in the baby crib, so I got all of the sixties too. I can still remember James Brown's "Cold Sweat" playing in my head during kindergarden class like yesterday. I don't think one decade is better than the other. Both decades produced lousy music as well as good music. The same goes for the eighties and nineties. I think this is getting silly, thinking one era's music is better than another. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-17 10:24:39 Comments: Well, if I had to pick one year, its no contest, 1965!!! A bunch of my very favorite oldies came out that year. The Swinging 60's Sound reached its apex that year. Some of the songs from '65 that I consider to be among the finest ever recorded: "Youre The One" (The Vouges) "My Love" (Petula Clark) "Keep On Dancing" (The Gentrys) "Catch Us If You Can/Over and Over" (The Dave Clark Five) "I'm Henry The 8th, I Am" (Hermans Hermits) "Shes Just My Style" (Gary Lewis) After '65, things like the fuzz guitar, an overabundance of R&B influences, hippie stuff, ect, took a large dent out of the purity of the '65 sound. But its there, perfectly preserved, for whenever I wish to hear it. Mikey |
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Name: Mike Website: Disc Collector From: Colorado Time: 2000-01-17 11:17:50 Comments: NEWS FLASH!! The much anticipated Cameo Parkway collections - "All The Hits by All The Stars" - 3 volumes -are now in stock! WOW!! Superb sound and mastering..all they've been cracked up to be...some new stereo and songs...give us a ring for more info(303)841-3000...The music of the past 5 decades? We all have favorites from all the years , but the 60s has to be the catalyst for "rock" , "pop" , "Top 40" as we know it today...energizing the 50s birth of rock & roll and providing a basis for the 70s to 90s...some super , some schlock..Heck , we'll sell you music from all decades..Any takers? |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-01-17 11:24:42 Comments: Please sharpen your pencil, Brother Preston. I posted the info about the Joey Dee "Complete A's & B's" Westside CD, but there was no claim that "Hey Let's Twist" was in stereo. What I DID say was that the original 45 recording was finally remastered from tape. Rhino's domestic CD contains a distorted disc dub. Also, I recently noted the impeccable release of "Joey Dee in Hollywood" (Soundies), which reissues both the "Hey Let's Twist" and "Two Tickets To Paris" soundtracks with a bonus radio spot. An alternate and shorter STEREO version of "Hey Let's Twist" can be heard on that disk, but it doesn't come close to the single version. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-17 11:53:10 Comments: Mega-Dittoes, Walt, Charles, Martys B & W and Richard. I'll chime in with 1963: My Favorites: The Chiffons' He's So Fine & One Fine Day Ronnettes' Be My Baby and my favorite pop song of all time, Roy Orbison's In Dreams. (I was 19). |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-17 13:55:43 Comments: Mike A, funny you mentioned 1966. That was a watershed year for music! And it was pivitol. I always say the same thing about that year's music! but, I could also pick '63. '65, '68' 73' 75' 76'78, '79, '80' 81' 83... |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-01-17 14:31:09 Comments: Hey, Mike! Are those Cameo/Parkway CDs legit, meaning official releases, or are they boots and mastered from records like previous releases have been (although quite well at that!). thanks. |
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Name: Uncle
Al From: Long Island, NY Time: 2000-01-17 14:47:17 Comments: Although I agree that the music of your "middle adolescence" years will always hold a soft spot in your heart I also feel that your locality (and what was going on there) has a lot to do with your preferences. At 44 years old, I am neither the oldest or youngest visitor to this site. I grew up in Queens, NYC and can clearly remember the fast talking "top 40" of WMCA and WABC. I also remember that in 1967 (or thereabouts) the focus of popular music shifted from hit singles to albums. New York's first AOR station, WNEW FM premiered in 1968 and featured much of the music that was not accessible through the AM outlets (even though they both played basically the same artists). From 1968 on I listened to 'NEW, which played popular music, but was distinctly NOT top 40. This movement to FM was fairly widespread, with WMCA folding in 1969 and WABC hanging on till 1973(4?). When ABC left, they were the LAST top 40 AM outlet in NY. My exposure to most of the "hits" from the 60's and 70's were on FM radio, in the album length versions. Single edits of "Won't Get Fooled Again" or "Hold Your Head Up" SOUND edited to me and ARE NOT the way I remember them. I never heard Elton John on AM radio. On FM, the 10 minute "Funeral for Friend" medley was as big a hit as "Benny and the Jets". "Stairway to Heaven" was a #1 radio hit AND WAS NEVER released as single (and therefore could not chart). In my teenage years, only the dreaded "teenyboppers" bought singles, we bought albums. I think that since this started 32 years ago, most of that music qualifies as oldies. |
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Name: Mike
Hartman From: Vernon Hills, IL Time: 2000-01-17 16:26:54 Comments: I never had a problem the the 45 edit version of the Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again". You may recall that the single was released well before the Who's Next Lp. Thus we never knew there was an "unedited" version until the LP came out. There were no notations on the 45 that it was edited. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-17 17:38:29 Comments: Beetlefan...I think you may be missing the point of all these recent posts. I think most of the persons replying were merely saying which was THEIR personal favorite decade and not trying to slam other decades as being inferior musically. The 1930's through the 90's produced many memorable records; these decades also produced their share of mediocrity. And even if a bunch of us might pick a specific decade as being our favorite, chances are we would not pick the same records as typlifying the best of that decade. My last point... none of us here are old enough to have been teenagers when Glenn Miller was popular, yet many of us at some point in our lives have probably heard either "Monlight Serenade" or "In The Mood." I maintain that we can't possibly appreciate these records with the same intensity as someone who was a kid back in the 40's who owned these 78's, possibly performed them in a band, heard them daily on the radio, played them on jukeboxes, danced to them and maybe made love to them. I think this is why all of us tend to be most passionate about a specific decade or two which today brings back the fondest memories. Chances are it's probably our teenage years. |
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Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 2000-01-17 18:37:12 Comments: As I sit here typing this, I am listening to the debut Quicksilver Messenger Service album and it is clear to me that, to be very specific, the greatest era of rock music was 1964 through 1967. The british invasion brought us the Beatles and Stones and America answered back with a blossoming of experimentation including garage bands and the flower power summer of '67. The Byrds, The Doors etc. Even pure pop bands like the Association and the Turtles were really great. Something happended in 1968 that gave rock a harder edge, both politically and socially speaking, that soured the top 40 for me. (Perhaps the twin assasinations, the Democratic convention?) However, I loved the 70s country-rock period with the Marshall Tucker Band, the Ozark Mountain Daredevils, Allmans, Outlaws, etc. The 70s also had all those awful one-hit pop artists like Christie and Paper Lace that sound fun now, but sure didn't then. Bottom line, tho' - Loved the period 64 thru 67. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-01-17 19:08:41 Comments: The Cameo/Parkway recordings aforementioned are genuine, I know that for a fact. Looking forward to collecting all three volumes. Think about it - when was the last time you all heard (and maybe danced to) "The Eighty One" by Candy & The Kisses |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-01-17 19:35:51 Comments: Okay Folks. You've got me curious. Could someone post the Track listings for those Cameo/Parkway CDs and maybe list the stereo content. This might just be the news of the new Millennium(heh, at least as far as we oldies collectors go). Thanks In advance. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-17 19:46:23 Comments: Speaking of the Outlaws although no relation to the country-rock band of the same name, 1976 was the year that brought to us country music's first RIAA certified Platinum album, the compilation from RCA entitled "Wanted! The Outlaws" featuring Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Jessi Colter and Tompall Glaser which gave Waylon & Willie a #1 country hit with their "duet" version of "Good Hearted Woman" among other hits, which in 1996, would later be reissued on CD with 10 additional tracks from the same time period and a new, at the time, Waylon and Willie duet with a cover of contemporary country-rock artist Steve Earle's "Nowhere Road." The current CD has a total of 21 tracks, while the original album featured 11 tracks. |
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Name: Igor Langenbrunstone From: Surf City Time: 2000-01-17 20:04:32 Comments: Da beech baoys is ah grate bend! Aye lav dem nd want to heer dere musik with starao sawnd. Doose enaibady no ware I kin faind sam av dere albooms in starao? I awlsaw laik da mankies. Daivee Geones ees ah grate singar nd hees baand ees sooperdedooper! eespachalie der sawng hawrd dayz naight...o weight dats da beetals! sawry ay mayd ah mastike, pleeze fawghiv mee! |
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Name: Walt
Haake Website: The Mists of Avalon From: Princeton, NJ Time: 2000-01-17 20:18:05 Comments: An interesting point in this discussion of favorite years/eras of pop music is the relative number of singles to chart in the Top 100? In 1955 it was a mere 257. That jumped up to 503 in '56, which increased steadily to 679 in 1961. There was a bit of a decrease in '62 and '63, but in '64 it jumped up to 715 (something to do with UK imports?). The peak year was '66 with 743 chart singles. There was a gradual decline from that point on. The last year I have numbers for is '82 when there were 425 singles to make the Top 100. (source: Whitburn's Pop Annual: 1955-1982). Of course, the 45 had waned somewhat with advent of AOR in the early 70s, and I suppose the whole Baby Boomer bubble in the population was a key factor. But maybe the art of making pop singles reached its zenith in the mid-to-late 60's? |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-01-18 01:00:11 Comments: Just to set the record straight on New York radio: WOR-FM was the first FM station to program a wider variety of music than just top 40 (in late 1966). Although the station's format was primarily top-40, it had a much deeper playlist than its AM counterparts, and it did also program album tracks (including the full-length "Light My Fire" before the song was a top-10 hit). When the station changed ownership and formats in 1968, Scott Muni moved over to WNEW-FM and helped to start the album-oriented format on that station. WMCA was a top 40 until Sept. 1970, when it switched to all talk. WABC was a music station until May 1982, when it, too, turned to talk. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-18 01:51:27 Comments: To Walt - I think you'll find that if you go back to the charts before rock and roll (say from 1950 through 1955), you'll also find fewer chart records but each with more longevity. It wasn't uncommon in the early 50's for a hit record to stay on the charts for half a year i.e. Patti Page "Tennessee Waltz" (26 weeks). Also, I think there was more of a loyalty to successful artists. Once you had amassed a large number of hit records (like Doris Day, Bing Crosby, Perry Como, etc.) your continued success on the charts was virtually guaranteed. The country field was similar in that the audience built stars and stayed with them over a long period of time. Also, the 40's and the pre-rock 50's were more the era of the "song" rather than the "record". Before rock, you often had multiple versions of the same song on the chart at the same time. There were seven charted versions of "Tennessee Waltz" by as disparate a group of artists as: Guy Lombardo, Les Paul & Mary Ford, Jo Stafford, Spike Jones, The Fontane Sisters and Anita O'Day. With the advent of rock, this rarely happened. There never was a Nelson Riddle or a Four Aces version of "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On"! The only time we really still had cover records was for the brief period where white artists covered black hits to make them "acceptable" to radio stations in primarily white markets (we all know about the Little Richard/Pat Boone, Lavern Baker/Georgia Gibbs hits.) |
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Name: Ray Dickinson From: Calgary, Alberta Time: 2000-01-18 02:18:46 Comments: As soon as anyone has a track listing for the 3 cds containing the Cameo/Parkway material it would be much appreciated if they would share it with the rest of us. I would really like to know if The Hippies "Memory Lane" is included! Mike, at Disc Collector, you might be the person in the best position to do this. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-18 03:05:02 Comments: No, Marty Wekser, I got the point. In my roundabout way, that's exactly what I said previously. I just don't fit in too well in this room. :-) |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-18 03:20:26 Comments: Hi, Uncle Al, although I grew up with the single edit of "Hold Your Head Up" it sounds edited to me as well. Somes songs actually work better as edited versions and some, like "stairway To Heaven" were wisely left alone. I listened to both AM and FM here in southern Arizona in the 70's and never knew a lot of songs, like "Funeral For A Friend" were radio hits. When I was a teen, women bought singles, and men bought LP's and tapes. |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: los angeles Time: 2000-01-18 04:02:26 Comments: Steve, 1963 was my favorite year, as i was in boot camp in the Navy at the time. Ray Baretto, Angels, Lou Christie, Chiffons, Diane Renay etc. Wow can it be true ABK releases Cameo/Parkway??? |
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Name: wes
smith Time: 2000-01-18 05:22:43 Comments: MIKE,SORRY I MISSED YOUR CALL.BEST TIME TO GET ME IS AROUND 3:15 PM.WES |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-18 06:23:36 Comments: To Ray Dickinson: The Hippies' track is on Mr. Maestro 1001, Memory Lane - 28 Original Golden Oldies, but that's the only CD source of it of which I'm aware. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-18 08:14:03 Comments: But nowadays, there are these albums with many artists covering material which the industry calls "tribute albums." An example of this is the "Rhythm Country and Blues" album with contemporary country artists duetting with R&B legends and Asleep At The Wheel's Bob Wills cover albums. The latest CD's by contemporary country artists Alan Jackson and LeAnn Rimes feature covers of country songs from the past. LeAnn's album, which is self-titled, features virtually half of the covers of songs recorded by Patsy Cline plus Born To Lose, Me and Bobby McGee, etc. and a new song entitled "Big Deal." Jackson's album entitled "Under The Influence", features songs that heavily draw from the 1970's-early 1980's with some 1960's hits ranging from "Pop a Top" originally recorded by Jim Ed Brown to Mel McDaniel's hit "Right In The Palm of Your Hand." The final track is a cover of "Margaritaville" done as a duet with Jimmy Buffett. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-01-18 10:50:21 Comments: ABKCO releases of C/P material???? I looked on Disc Collector's site and the three volumes are listed as being on the "Liberty Bell" label. Sounds like another hoax, like the "Strictly Stereo" Stones on "Arcade Records" was. My copy was a CD-R! As usual, don't hold your breath for legit releases from ABK. |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: Freezing to death in London, Canada Time: 2000-01-18 12:03:50 Comments: I called Mike at Discollector yesterday regarding the C/P discs. He never tried to suggest that these were released by AABKO, either to me or on his website, so I don't know how anyone construed that this was a Klein sanctioned release. I think we'll all be old and grey, before we see that happen. I asked Mike about the quality and he said that, in most cases, they were equal to or perhaps a bit better than the CamPark boots. I asked about a couple of cuts that I hoped were on the track list, including The 81 and Wild Thing by Senator Bobby, and they are both there. So, I ordered all three, even though I have the CamPark boots. I'll give you my opinion on the cds and the track lists when I get them, if no one else volunteers the info first. |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: The Frozen North Time: 2000-01-18 13:32:52 Comments: In my last message, AABKO should read ABKCO. Boy, do I need a spell check! |
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Name: graham From: San Jose Time: 2000-01-18 13:48:34 Comments: The discollector cd imports such as Chubby Checker, Dovells, Orlons, Charlie Gracie, ? Mark and the Mysterians etc. to me sound excellent. The Rolling Stone CD "Strictly Stereo" sounds outstanding. I think I gave my comment on this, on this chat late last year?! No matter. I did comment though when I was stationed in Germany 10 years ago I bought the album version of "Strictly Stereo" made by the same label and company. My favorite is the long version of "Out of Time". I highly recommend getting all the import (so called ABKCO stuff)cds and especially get "Strictly Stereo by the Stones!! |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: S. F. bay area Time: 2000-01-18 15:44:38 Comments: TO Calgary, Ray: If you really want info on C/P please leave E-mail address, like to help! you dial up as unknown. have a nice day chuck |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-18 16:14:04 Comments: I remember the first record I received as a gift. I remember the first record I bought. I remember the feeling of hearing something new and exciting leaping from the radio speaker. But sadly, I don't remember the first STEREO record I heard. Growing up, my record player was mono. My parents console stereo (with vibrasonic sound) had no noticeable separation from across the room. I bought the mono albums because they were a buck cheaper, plus the stereo records sounded "funny" on my mono record player. Today, I am an avid stereo nut. Why can't I remember that first stereo experience?! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-18 17:59:05 Comments: The first time I *really* discovered the qualities of << |
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Name: beetle Time: 2000-01-18 18:02:07 Comments: Oops! I gotta remember the HTML. That should read, "Comments: The first time I *really* discovered the qualities of ((STEREO)) was when I played an Archie (don't laugh) LP on the family stereo console when I was seven years old." |
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Name: Martin T Boratyn From: California Time: 2000-01-18 22:45:25 Comments: Just a few observations and information: To Tom Daly, thank you for sharing your useful information on "White Christmas". It seems the soundtrack version is not available on CD. I guess I will have to dub the original version to disc from my copy of the 'Holiday Inn' video. The cut on the Bing Crosby box set is not the original version but a 1942 studio recording. It is not an underdub (i.e. missing Majorie Reynold's voice) since the take/recording is different. I purchase the ERIC CD's and it has an excellent selection of songs. However, why was the apparent Mantovani version of "Around the World" used instead of the referenced Victor Young version? Correct me if I am wrong. I do have a stereo soundtrack CD of the movie and the main title cut sounds similar to Victor Young's single, although I have not A-B'd the cut. If it is the same, could the longer soundtrack version be edited to the single version? Also, for you BSN readers and Mike Callahan "Only You" was indeed recorded by Frank Pourcel in stereo. It was only available on a few import records. A stereo record collector friend years ago picked up a copy by accident. It has been dubbed to disc and sounds fantastic. On another matter, I have been advised by a reliable source that the Canadian CD containing the stereo version of "Witchdoctor" is out of print. In fact, the version appearing on that disc, I was told, is an underdub. The good news is that EMI is committed to getting the hit out in stereo with the missing parts on some cd in the near future. A few people including Tom Daly were looking for the Marilyn Maye song "Step to the Rear". It's a great tune adapted from the broadway show 'How Now Dow Jones'and used as backing for a few commercials. It is available in stereo on her 1967 LP 'Step To The Rear' on RCA #LSP-3897. I was lucky to pick the album up in sealed condition after looking for the song for years. Finally, someone mentioned whether "Goodbye, Jimmy, Goodbye" was ever available in stereo. Unfortunately no. But I find it curious that according to a Mike Callahan discography it was released in stereo as a regular issue 45. I have never seen a copy, let alone being in "true" stereo. Has anyone? The mystery extends to such allegedly issued stereo singles as "Three Stars" by Tommy Dee and "Lady Luck" by Lloyd Price. I find it disappointing since I have an extensive collection of stereo 45's from the 1959-61 era but have been unable to locate those singles. |
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Name: Dave
Breathe From: UK Time: 2000-01-19 05:29:01 Comments: MAVERICKS: If anyone in BSN land likes recent "oldies" like the "Mavericks", I'd like to highly recommend the European versions of their last 3 albums as they each have extra unreleased trax not available on US versions! Including "A world without love", "Blue Moon" & "Are you lonesome tonight?" all in stereo of course! |
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Name: Bill
Buster Website: Eric Records From: California Time: 2000-01-19 07:04:49 Comments: I tried to send Martin Boratyn a private e-mail, but like many posters, he did not post his e-mail address with his message. In any case, as the producer of the Eric CD he recently purchased, "Hard To Find Orchestral Instrumentals" (Eric #11507), I am sure that the Victor Young stereo version of "Around the World" is indeed the original and not "an apparent Mantovani version" (whatever that means). If you A/B the Eric CD and the original single they will be the same (except the Eric CD version is true stereo). I haven't heard the original soundtrack (composed and performed by Victor Young) in years, but I'd bet the sountrack version and the single are identical as labels rarely did different mixes for singles and LPs in the 50s. Regarding "Only You" by Franck Pourcel in stereo: we came across a RE-RECORDING of this song by Mr. Pourcel which did sound good, but not even close to the original version so we didn't use it. I'm 99% sure that the original 1959 version was not recorded in stereo, but I would love to hear it if anyone has it. We certainly looked all over the world for a stereo version without success. Anyone who claims to have it in true stereo should A/B it first with the original single version (as found on Eric #11507). If, indeed, it's the same performance, please e-mail me. BTW, Eric is currently working on Volume 5 of "Hard To Find 45s on CD" that will contain some rare killer tracks from a major label that rarely licenses cuts for compilations. It should be out by early May. I am very pleased that the collector community has enjoyed our recent releases so much. Certainly much credit goes to Tom Daly for the superb mastering job! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-01-19 08:42:46 Comments: Re: Bill Buster---What label are you referring to??? I can think of one label that's popular on this message board that rarely ever licenses material for compilations.....let me see, it was called ATCO? No, no, that's part of Atlantic. Oh....ABKCO, I'm sorry! The great ones that wouldn't even license "The Twist" to Rhino for Billboard 1960. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: It's in the high 70's in B.R. Time: 2000-01-19 12:14:58 Comments: Ken Garland. As all of the others noted who posted on their favorite year, I picked 1963 for an obvious girlfriend-related reason -- pimple-faced and small for my age, it took me nearly 2 years to get up the courage to ask her out on a date! I graduated in '62; she was a year behind me. I forgot to mention "Our" favorite song: Our Day Will Come by Ruby and the Romanitcs. I didn't get drafted until 1966 (when I was 22), and I can still hear all those guys in my AIT company singing along to "What Becomes of The Broken Hearted" in the barracks whenever it played on a tiny little radio on someone's cot. Beetle it was probably a very wise move on the part of the record company to NOT try to make a single out of "Stairway to Heaven." I can't imagine anyone buying it -- even if it had a part 1 & 2 ending up as a single on both sides of the record (a-la What'd I Say or Honky Tonk). You couldn't play a quality "air guitar" to 3 minutes on a side, now could you? What would they have left out? Oooh, it makes me wonder. |
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Name: Martin
Nathan Website: Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester,MA Time: 2000-01-19 12:20:57 Comments: I have a complaint about import CD'S. It's not the sound quality, which is fine. It has to do with finding track listings. I do not understand why dealers don't make them readily available. I will not pay $40.00 for a greatest hits CD compilation until I know what's on it. It's frustrating to find a website which lists 300,000 disks, but lets you know that "WE DO NOT HAVE ANY TRACK LISTINGS, PLEASE DON'T ASK FOR THEM". So how is a person supposed to know what's on the disk!. I realize it's expensive to list all the tracks, but I think that's part of the cost of doing business. I sent a SASE to a dealer over two weeks ago, and I'm still waiting for track listings. I will not buy that new C/P set of disks until I know what's on them. Maybe it's just better to wait till the mid Feb Boston record show. I don't even buy records anymore. I just buy from a couple of dealers that sell import CDs. At least I can get track listings. (Believe it or not, there ARE more important things in life than TRACK LISTINGS!). Martin Nathan |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-19 13:42:35 Comments: Steve, I do agree! It would have been sacreligious to have done an edit of "Stairway". But i'll bet I could do one that would work right now. It makes you wonder, though, why record companies released the single edits they did. I know James William Gurcio had full control over the Chicago edits, but the single edits of the early Chicago 45's suck! Dunhill released the full 7+ minutes of "McArthur Park" on a single. The song is irritating enough. Who can stand the whole seven minutes? Actually, I edited it down to a very tight, radio-friendly four and a half minutes. I've never even heard the official DJ edit. I even included on a CD-R I made for John Preston. He didn't comment on it, but i'm sure he was impressed with the edits. Just rambling. |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-01-19 13:57:24 Comments: Martin Boratyn, being from Canada and having purchaed the Cdn. CD containing the true stereo "Witch Doctor", be assured that it is not an underdub - you have been misinformed. I can't comment as to it being out-of-print however, it is a recent release and I would be surprised if it is out-of-print already. |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 2000-01-19 14:38:15 Comments: Martin, I don't know where you heard that the On My Radio cd's had been deleted. I talked to a close friend who is the manager of a local Sam The Record Man store, and he had just put in an order for another batch, they're selling so well! He had them racked at the front and had at least ten copies of each decade, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's & 90's. Anyone looking for the On My Radio, Top Hits of the 50's, with Witch Doctor, can order them from the Sam's website. www.samtherecordman.com. They're selling for $16.99 Canadian, which translates real cheap for U.S. buyers! |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-01-19 14:53:41 Comments: Re: On My Radio 1950s CD. I got my copy as recently as 3 weeks ago. Since this Series was only releasd late last summer-early autumn, I somehow doubt they've been Deleted. As for "Witch Doctor" being an underdub, it certainly isn't one to my ears. The only thing that might sound unusual is that the reverb that was used in the mono version had to be recreated on the vocal of the stereo one-and it isn't quite right-but its close enough for my liking. Also the track sound so amazing in stereo compared to the mono-its worth seeking out the disc for that song alone. If only Capitol/EMI Canada would do more of this kind of stuff. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-19 16:28:41 Comments: OK... It seems everyone's curious about the contents of the Cameo-Parkway discs. Here's the track listing: Volume One: BUTTERFLY - Charlie Gracie; FABULOUS - Charlie Gracie; I LOVE YOU SO MUCH IT HURTS - Charlie Gracie; BACK TO SCHOOL AGAIN - Timmie "Oh Yeah" Rogers; SILHOUETTES - The Rays; YOU'RE THE GREATEST - Billy Scott; BAD MOTORCYCLE - The Storey Sisters; DINNER WITH DRAC (part 1) - Zacherle, The "Cool Ghoul;" DINNER WITH DRAC (part 2) - Zacherle, The "Cool Ghoul;" OVER THE WEEKEND - The Playboys; MEXICAN HAT ROCK - The Applejacks; ROCKA-CONGA - The Applejacks; THE CLASS - Chubby Checker; KISSIN' TIME - Bobby Rydell; WE GOT LOVE - Bobby Rydell; WILD ONE - Bobby Rydell; SWINGIN' SCHOOL - Bobby Rydell; VOLARE - Bobby Rydell; THE TWIST - Chubby Checker; THE HUCKLEBUCK - Chubby Checker; SWAY - Bobby Rydell; PONY TIME - Chubby Checker; DANCE THE MESS AROUND - Chubby Checker; THAT OLD BLACK MAGIC - Bobby Rydell (stereo); LET'S TWIST AGAIN - Chubby Checker Volume Two: BRISTOL STOMP - The Dovells; THE FLY - Chubby Checker; JINGLE BELL ROCK - Bobby Rydell & Chubby Checker; JINGLE BELLS IMITATIONS - Bobby Rydell & Chubby Checker; DO THE NEW CONTINENTAL - The Dovells; SLOW TWISTIN' - Chubby Checker with Dee Dee Sharp (stereo); MASHED POTATO TIME - Dee Dee Sharp; BRISTOL TWISTIN' ANNIE - The Dovells; I'LL NEVER DANCE AGAIN - Bobby Rydell; THE WAH-WATUSI - The Orlons; GRAVY (FOR MY MASHED POTATOES) - Dee Dee Sharp; DANCIN' PARTY - Chubby Checker; HULLY GULLY BABY - The Dovells; (I'M THE GIRL FROM) WOLVERTON MOUNTAIN - Jo Ann Campbell; LIMBO ROCK - Chubby Checker (stereo); POPEYE THE HITCHHIKER - Chubby Checker; DON'T HANG UP - The Orlons; RIDE! - Dee Dee Sharp; THE CHA-CHA-CHA - Bobby Rydell; THE POPEYE WADDLE - Don Covay; SOUTH STREET - The Orlons; DO THE BIRD - Dee Dee Sharp; MOTHER, PLEASE! - Jo Ann Campbell; YOU CAN'T SIT DOWN - The Dovells; WILDWOOD DAYS - Bobby Rydell Volume Three: BIRDLAND - Chubby Checker; SO MUCH IN LOVE - The Tymes; NOT ME - The Orlons; TWIST IT UP - Chubby Checker; WONDERFUL! WONDERFUL! - The Tymes; CROSSFIRE - The Orlons; WILD! - Dee Dee Sharp; LODDY-LO - Chubby Checker (stereo); FORGET HIM - Bobby Rydell; HOOKA-TOOKA (45 version) - Chubby Checker (stereo); SOMEWHERE - The Tymes; HEY, BOBBA NEEDLE - Chubby Checker (stereo); LONG TALL SALLY - The Kinks; THE 81 - Candy & the Kisses; CAST YOUR FATE TO THE WIND - Sounds Orchestral (stereo); TOSSING AND TURNING - The Ivy League; THIS CAN'T BE TRUE - Eddie Holman (stereo); 96 TEARS - ? & the Mysterians; I (WHO HAVE NOTHING) - Terry Knight & the Pack; WILD THING - Senator Bobby; MELLOW YELLOW - Senator Bobby & Senator McKinley; LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL / FEEL SO GOOD - Bunny Sigler (stereo); BEG, BORROW AND STEAL - The Ohio Express (stereo); HEAVY MUSIC (Parts 1 & 2) - Bob Seger & the Last Heard; LOVEY DOVEY / YOU'RE SO FINE - Bunny Sigler (stereo) I hope this post satisfies everyone's curiosity! By the way, they sound fabulous! |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-01-19 17:49:16 Comments: For Martin (and others), just today I came across a website that gives full track listings for many, many various artists CDs, including some of the latest ones from Mr. Maestro. It is http://www.cdeurope.com/ One can also find a complete track listing for all the HEY LOOK WHAT I FOUND and many other imports (Stardust, Mavis, etc.) at http://gocontinental.com Among U.S. sites that are very good at giving track listings to various artists CDs (even cheap ones, sometimes) are Tower Records and CDMO. If you use their websites to check out track listings, I feel you should at least consider buying from them too. Larry |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-01-19 17:56:07 Comments: The correct URL for the Canadian company is http://www.gocontinental.com/ |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-01-19 18:07:00 Comments: The correct URL for the Canadian company is http://www.gocontinental.com/ |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-19 22:38:25 Comments: Re: The Stereo Witch Doctor......is it an underdub?? That depends!! I dont have an original 1958 45 to compare it to.....BUT, I can tell you this. On the 1963 Lp "The Alvin Show", the version of Witch Doctor has added vocal parts...specifically, when Ross Bagsdarian sings "And I admit that wasnt very smart" ....there is an overdub of the Chipmunks singing "Ver-ry Smart".....and also "Winnnnn your Heart" in the next line. Now, was this on the original 45? I dont know, as I dont have it. I have the new stereo mix and those vocal parts are not on it!! Its very possible that those added parts were added "live" while they were doing the mono mixdown, hence them not being on the stage tapes( I doubt very much that there is a multitrack, I'm pretty sure they did it in stages on two mono machines). Its ALSO possible that they released the single, and when it started climbing the charts, they added those parts to make it "better" to help it climb. It *was* ALWAYS on Liberty, so its not a matter of it being on a smaller label first, then picked up for National Distribution. Anybody have one or two of the 45s? Mikey |
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Name: Don
Duffey From: Buffalo Time: 2000-01-19 23:14:52 Comments: To Tom Daly: Tom, on the C/P set does the Ohio Express'"Beg,Borrow & Steal" have the choo choo train intro lp vers.?? |
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Name: Ralph
Curcio Website: From: N.J. Time: 2000-01-19 23:47:08 Comments: Mikey, the original 45 of "Witch Doctor" by David Seville (Liberty 55132, 1958) has Chipmunk overdubs ONLY on the "Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah, ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang" choruses. There are NO Chipmunk vocals after the lines "You've been keeping love from just like you were a miser, and I admit I wasn't very smart," etc. Hope this helps. |
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Name: Mike
Cloud Website: From: Houston, TX Time: 2000-01-20 00:10:41 Comments: Mike, the "Witch Doctor" on your album is a remake to beef up the Chipmunks' part. The single was credited only to David Seville, not the Chipmunks. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-20 01:32:24 Comments: This is not a leftover question from "WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE". But I really would like to ask this of any Motown experts out there. What, if any, difference is there between the mono and stereo versions of "Beechwood 4-5789". I don't think the stereo version exists on any CD's, though it must be on some old vinyl issues. Any expert answers? Sorry - no prizes. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-20 02:03:23 Comments: In reply to a recent post regarding "AROUND THE WORLD" by Victor Young. The version on Eric Records is, in fact, mono although the inlay card labels it as being "stereo." The really good stereo version (with fairly wide separation) can be found on "Around The World In 80 Days" soundtrack (MCA CD 31134.) Having a/b'd both CD versions, they are exactly the same, except only the MCA version is in stereo. I wonder who decided to use the "mono" version on Eric...Bill Inglot??? |
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Name: Technophile Website: From: Earth Time: 2000-01-20 07:55:42 Comments: This message is for those BSN readers who make their own CDs and use a PC-based editor to clean up the tracks. If your editor accepts Direct-X plug-ins, you might want to check out an amazing piece of software from Arboretum Systems, http://www.arboretum.com/, called Restoration NR. When set in "guess" mode and given a representative sample of a .wav file, this plug-in builds a customized filter for the .wav file on the fly, and that filter can then be applied to the entire .wav file in whatever intensity you choose. The plug-in has a real-time preview mode, so that you can hear the results and make adjustments as the track is playing. It has both normal and hi-resolution modes of operation, so that you can control how the on-the-fly filter is being built. The results range from subtle to very noticeable. This is not a magic cure for all sonic problems, but another tool, albeit a very capable one, to use in the process of cleaning up sound files. The plug-in lists for $149.00 and a downloadable demo version is available at the web site. Other than being a VERY satisfied customer, I have no connection with Arboretum Systems. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-20 09:05:03 Comments: To Don Duffey: The C/P disc with "Beg, Borrow and Steal" does not have the choo choo effects found on the LP. To Mike Arcidiacono: The version of "Witch Doctor" on The Alvin Show contains overdubs that were not found on the original David Sevill single. The original single only contained ONE speeded-up voice, whereas the version on The Alvin Show contains THREE, as well as Chipmunk vocal overdubs where none appeared on the original Liberty single. Your LP is correctly billed as being by "David Seville and The Chipmunks" and the original single is billed as "The Music of David Seville," with no mention of "Chipmunks." |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-20 13:19:18 Comments: Whew! Technophille, I thought we were being spammed for a second. My software of choice, unfortunately, does not accept Direct-x plugins, but it will take software specific ones that work very well for vinyl restoration. I've been using Cool Edit 2000 with it's propriety NR plug-in, with another called, "ClickFix" for two months now, and i've been able to restore vinyl to the point of being commercial-ready! I don't even bother with DCArt32 anymore. Doesn't Abberetum make "Ray Gun"? I tried "Ray Gun" and it destroyed the sound when pushed to any level of effectiveness. One standalone program I found to be quite effective is "Groove "Mechanic". but it is cumbersome to use. |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-01-20 15:13:51 Comments: Marty Wekser-Re: "Beachwood-45789" this song did exist in stereo on cd back when MCA controlled Motown. it was on "A Package Of 16 Big Hits" (MOTD-5448). I initially bought the first 2 volumes of this when they came out-and recently cd copied the other 8-being there are alot of hard to find tunes on these sets that dont turn up too often. As for the difference in Mono & Stereo-i think its simply the mix-unlike "please Mr. Postman" which the stereo version to my ears is a different recording. I know we're all still awaiting the day when someone that actually cares about stereo makes it into Universal's vaults to give us some decent motown packages in stereo-though I won't hold my breath till it happens, cause it might be a loooong wait. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-20 18:17:22 Comments: As someone very recently pointed out, the 2 Hollywood DC5 releases are now out of print. I have owned the single CD -- Glad All Over Again -- since it was released. Today I found a copy of the 2-CD collection, History of the DC5, in a used store. Being that it was in mint condition, and costing a mere $12.99, I picked it up. Come to find out when I get it home that “You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby” is not on this one either! Could one of you DC5 experts explain this? |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-01-20 20:26:55 Comments: Marty, Dave Sampson provided the info as to the true stereo "Beechwood 4-5789" - I have that CD as well (it sounds fantastic there!). Further to the Chipmunks issue, I would think that when David Seville (aka Ross Bagdasarian) did "Witch Doctor" in 1958, he wasn't thinking "Chipmunks" until such time as he (or everyone else?) coined the term to describe the sound he achieved. I'm just guessing on this however, as I wasn't around in 1958 to remember (the number 1 song at my birth was "Are You Lonesome To-night?"!). |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-20 21:46:45 Comments: Buddy Guy - Does anyone know if the Chess 50th Anniversary Collection has any more stereo content than "The Complete Chess Studio Recordings"? I guess I could just ask Andy McKaie, but I thought I'd try here first... As a side note, Andy has said the Chess archives are in a bit of disary - some session tapes exist, some don't. Sometimes the multitracks exist, sometimes only a "running master" - I guess Chess usually kept a stereo machine going at the same time as the multitrack. The only problem was some of the time it was pre-mixed to mono, sometimes not. I guess that's why some stuff from 1959 is in stereo, but other stuff from several years later is only available in mono (and sometimes only from disc dub). |
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Name: Alan From: Phoenix Time: 2000-01-20 23:18:01 Comments: I don’t if you can really give a definitive answer about the non appearance of “You Must Have Been a Beautiful Baby” by the DC5 but, it was not UK single, and only crept into the US top 40 (#35). In a Record Collector Interview (Issue #166, June ’93) he talks about the Hollywood reissues and EMI in the UK insisted that he include “Live In The Sky”. “Nineteen Days” was remastered but left off due to time restrictions according to Dave. He also talked about the possibility, but still unreleased, of a box set in the future. I use Sekd (www.sekd.com) mastering software to burn my CD’s and they sell a Direct-X plug-in Declicker/Decrackler that works well if used in small amounts. Thanks for the tip on the Arboretum Systems web site and their Direct-X plug-in. |
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Name: Randy Vest From: NYC Time: 2000-01-21 00:44:51 Comments: The Marvelettes' "Beechwood 4-5789" is also in stereo on their"Playboy" CD (Motown MOTD-5473) but I believe it too may be out of print now, along with "A Package of 16 Original Big Hits." Great sound on the "Playboy" CD, BTW. Dunno about mix differences between "Beechwood" stereo and mono versions. But the clarity on the stereo version is unbelievable! I hear instruments I never knew were there....although they probably always were but just buried deep in the mono mix. |
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Name: Marty
Blaise From: Houston, TX Time: 2000-01-21 09:58:51 Comments: Just a brief note on the recent comments about overdubs, originals, etc. My enjoyment in this hobby is hearing a song in true stereo for the first time, no matter what version it is or how close it matches. I even enjoy hearing something I've never heard at all in stereo. Also, is it me or do a lot of guys named Marty have this same true stereo hobby? Good listening. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-01-21 19:00:22 Comments: To Mike Arcidiacano: I'd like to add my 130 lire concerning "Witch Doctor". The 1958 single (Dave Seville) and the version on "The Alvin Show" are totally different versions. The tempos are different, the keys are different, and you might recall a small dialogue in the intro: Chipmunks: "Hey Dave, let's sing the Witch Doctor!" "Yeah, Dave, the Witch Doctor!" Seville: "I don't think so, boys; I made that record once!" Alvin: "Yeah, but not with us! Come on!" I hope I have provided some assistance. |
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Name: Dave Time: 2000-01-21 22:21:06 Comments: The Cameo Parkway Discs sound as crappy as the latest Eric discs...and they sound like they were mastered by the same guy...must have got sound software for Christmas and radically over used the noise reduction button...listening thru headphones is unbearable...whosever bootlegging them actually left the discs manufacturer printed on the inside ring of the CD! What a bunch of idiots... |
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Name: A. B. Coe From: New York City Time: 2000-01-22 01:47:23 Comments: Hey Dave - just listened to the new Cameo-Parkway crappy disc transfers too. You're right -- no balls. But I was surprised to see the CD manufacturer's name on 'em. Ain't normal for bootlegs. Well, this means when the FBI comes investigating, they'll come after the guy who did the mastering too. |
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Name: ed Time: 2000-01-22 05:11:45 Comments: I thought that the Cameo/Parkway cds sounded pretty good. Mashed Potatoes sounds the best it has sounded on cd. |
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Name: gargoyle Referred by: From a Friend From: Hell Time: 2000-01-22 10:13:27 Comments: Those posting here spend too much time listening to the way things sound, never getting to enjoy any musical content. All you do is complain about what's wrong with this CD or that CD, never being grateful to have it at all. You praised Mo-Fi, but didn't support them and they went bust. Who's next? DCC? Rhino? Varese? Eric? Taragon? Collectables? Take good listen to what you're buying and be thankful you can get the music you want to hear. So what if it doesn't sound exactly the way you'd like it to. Is that worse than not having it at all? |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-01-22 12:22:35 Comments: MoFi didn't go bust because people didn't support them - they went bust because somebody they had a contract with went belly up, taking MoFi with them. I think it was one of their distributers, but I'm not sure. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-22 12:49:58 Comments: That's correct. It was their largest distrubuter. But MoFi also spread themselves thin by having thier stuff out in places like Best Buy and not seeing profits there. |
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Name: Sunny Jim Website: Referred by: Yahoo! From: Philadelphia, PA Time: 2000-01-22 12:53:26 Comments: With all due respect to gargoyle, your posting sounds like it could have come right out of one of the major label's propaganda machines: "Take what we give you and be grateful that you're getting anything at all!". I figure that's not really what you meant, but, after collecting CDs for over 15 years, and reading things like BSN, ICE (CD Watchdog), and Goldmine, boy, those words sounded awfully familiar! :-) I think that when your 20+-year-old vinyl sounds better than the current CD releases, then you, as the buyer of the CD have a legitimate gripe. Not, of course, that any of the record companies give a tin whistle in the wind about you or your gripes. On another topic, but one that is related to the above, I have a CD review I'd like to offer. Please note that all of what follows is in my humble opinion, only. Did you ever have an LP in your collection that you figured would never show up on CD? Something that had very little national chart success, but that you really enjoyed? And then you read that it's coming out on CD, totally remixed and remastered from the original tapes with lots of first-time stereo. You can't wait; you rush to find a copy as soon as it goes on sale; you put the disc in the player, hit play, and prepare to be thrilled. Instead, you get something that's virtually unlistenable. You immediately think that something went wrong with your system, so you try another disc, but everything is fine. You put the new disc back in and try it again, but it's still the same: awful! You pull out your 30-year-old LP version to make sure that you're not mis-remembering the original, but it sounds better than the new CD. What is going on here?? The CD that I'm referring to is the recent Jamie release of The Kit Kats "It's About Time". This is a 2-CD set that includes all of their first album, and most of their second studio album, which was recorded under the name New Hope. As a Philadelphia native, I'm very familiar with the band. I attended several of their live shows and bought all of the singles and LPs. When they changed the band name to New Hope in 1970 and re-released their signature song, "Won't Find Better Than Me", it started to get some national attention and I thought they might have gotten their big break. But that didn't happen, and I figured their music would be consigned to oblivion. So, what's so wrong with this new CD? They did include some first-time stereo from the first album, the packaging is great, the discs even have replicas of the original Jamie Records labels on them. However, somebody in production thought it would be a good idea to make the music sound like an old, rechannelled stereo LP. Yup, the left channel has all the highs and lows clipped off, and the right channel has most of the mid-range filtered out. WHY? What was the purpose of this? I mean, aren't CD reissues supposed to show off the sound of the original tapes at their best? You can tell that there was a real stereo mix under the fake rechannelling, so why screw it up with the phony sound gimmicks? I'm really disappointed because this was probably the only shot that The Kit Kats' music had at being reissued, and it's not even worth listening to. I returned my copy to where I bought it for a refund. Whoever did this, took some great music and butchered it. I think I'm going to find someone who can make me a CD-R of my LPs. So, rating this CD: packaging: A-, sound quality: F-. Buyer beware! |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Chilly Cincinnati Time: 2000-01-22 13:20:15 Comments: MoFi fell apart mainly because of problems with distributors. I'd add that lately some of their choices of material for reissue were odd to say the least, and didn't exactly set the world on fire; as for sound quality, I think they were doing pretty well, but weren't in the same league as Steve Hoffman at DCC. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-22 13:32:06 Comments: Gargoyle, we are not the ones who fail to support these various labels. The general public can take responsibility for that. Most buyers just look at the price, scoff, and buy whatever's cheapest. I've seen people do it. We, collector's are spending the big bucks to get what we want. And, no, we don't always agree on the way we want the discs to sound. That's human nature. This is a forum. We praise, gripe, complain, in an effort to help each other avoid (or run out and buy) something that may not be what everyone likes. It's ridiculous to accept every thing that gets released, just because we should be thankful the companys were so kind as to put them on the market. Don't get me wrong. I am thankful that most of what I want have already been released on cds. I never expected that anywhere near that number would get released. But, I haven't lost my right to an opinion, yet, about the quality of sound on any given cd that I purchase. None of us have. |
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Name: Henri
Bronsgeest Referred by: From a Friend From: CA Time: 2000-01-22 16:26:49 Comments: This may be a duplicate. My computer crashed as I was sending this the first time. If it is, sorry! WITCH DOCTOR - Ross Bagdasarian was a musician and composer who in the fifties was everywhere. He is the piano player you see in the window in REAR WINDOW with James Steward. He wrote hits for Rosemary Clooney, etc. In 1958 he decided to do a comedy record, kind of a put down of rock and roll. All the adults were against us, remember? He wrote the Witch Doctor with its nonsense lyrics. He had some people sing the refrain and just double the speed. If you had a reel-to-reel recorder you could record the 45 and then play it back in half speed and you'll see that it is in perfect key. When it became a surprise hit (all the way to number 1)he needed a follow up. He tried with BIRD ON MY HEAD, but was only moderately succesful. Remember that comedy record were quite successful in the 50's. Stan Freberg, Flying Saucers, etc. Since the speedup worked he tried again with a Christmas comedy record. He wrote a Waltz, used the speedup technique, and since they sounded like Chipmunks, well . . . He named them after the executives at Liberty records where he was employed. The follow up record to the Chipmunk Song was just as successful, ALVIN'S HARMONICA, a song that is hard to find. The Chipmunks became perrenial, so, knowing a good thing Ross (now known as David Seville) continued making records, products, and eventually the TV show. I have the original picture sleeves and the Chipmunks do not look anything like the way they do now. When Ross passed, his son Ross Jr. continued the legacy. It has become a worldwide business. One of the first "Chipmunk albums" put out included the Witch Doctor and Bird on My Head. To make those songs compatable with the new phenomenon they added overdubs with the Chipmunks and to make it stereo, which it wasn't. Rememember this was a CHIPMUNK album. Unfortunately some sloppy producers use this newly created version for oldies and other albums. The originals are availble, you just have to be careful. All the Chipmunk recordings were in stereo. Liberty was a big pusher of stereo and had albums out just to show off their wide stereo!! Hope this helps. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-22 17:10:46 Comments: To Henri Bronsgeest: My stereo copy of Let's All Sing with the Chipmunks, (you know, the red vinyl album) contains "The Chipmunk Song (Christmas Don't Be Late)" in electronic stereo. Curb has issued a CD of The Chipmunks' Greatest Hits, containing "Alvin's Harmonica," but I can't verify the stereo content. It wasn't worth the price of the CD to get so few tracks, and Curb doesn't generally offer such great sound. |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: brrrrrbank Time: 2000-01-22 17:30:51 Comments: OK ... so we have some Cameo-Parkway stuff available. Some say it's great; some say it's trash. It's great to have a forum where all points of view are welcome. I don't own the C-P material, but I did order the "Strictly Stereo" set. And to my ears some is good; some not so good. However, I'm thankful it's available and proud to own it. As for the new C-P set, I say hooray for making it available. Those who don't like it have two choices in my opinion: wait for Abkco to release the material (you'll be sure to get pristine stereo audio from Abkco won't you) or you can do your own remastering. |
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Name: Mikey Time: 2000-01-22 17:44:53 Comments: Re: Kit Kats. Sunny Jim....I happen to know who did the Mixing for the Kit Kats Cd and I'm sorry, but I just cant believe its as bad as you say. I know that the tapes involved were a MESS and that tons of work were involved to get the material CD worthy. The person involved is an extremely well respected audio professional who is light years better than most engineers out there. He loves the Kit Kats material and did the Cds as a labor of love. He is also a good guy that shares knowledge of whats available and whats not, stereo wise with us. Is there a chance that your playback system might be out of whack? Also, of sad note....Sea of Tunes, the Bootleg label that brought us the wonderful Beach Boys "right off the session masters" series of Cds, has been put OOB by the Feds. Apparantly, EMI, who makes ALOT of money from the Beach Boys releases, put a ton a pressure on the Feds to nail them. I'm hearing they are going to throw the book at them as an example. Too bad, those Cds were amazing. If anybody can still find them, get them, because when they are gone, thats it!! Mikey |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-01-22 18:19:06 Comments: A quick note on "You Must Have Been A Beautiful Baby" by the DC5--I did some research for Ken Barnes (who wrote the liner notes) and he told me the only reason that song wasn't on the two CD set was simply because Dave Clark just didn't like it.By the way, Rhino was originally going to do the DC5 reissues but obviously that never worked out. |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-01-22 20:18:43 Comments: I don't know! Seems as though the tone of some of the posters on this board has reached a rather shrill pitch. Is everyone just feisty because it's miserable outside and we're getting cabin fever? I do not have the "new" C P discs, however, I do have the Bobby Rydell, the Orlons, Dee Dee Sharp and Dovells discs. The first three I think may be from the same source; the Dovells somewhere different for certain. My experience is that the Bobby Rydell disc is great! Perfect, no? Enjoyable, yes. Lots of great tunes available nowhere else. A nice balance of sound reduction, ooops, I mean noise reduction. Well, some of the sound obviously was lobbed off. But my original 45 of I'll Never Dance Again is hopelessly noisy. The set doesn't have the "phat" sound that characterized the original issues on 45, but I have a sneaking suspicion that were the original tapes unearthed and transferred to CD, chances are it wouldn't sound all that wonderful, either. The Orlons CD is quite comprehensive, like the Rydell disc, and sound is OK. Not surprisingly, the punch of the orignals isn't quite there, the clean machine has done it's work, and all the snap, crackle and pop has been removed from the discs this was obviously taken from. Do I enjoy having these available to me again, in a convenient format? You bet! I am not unhappy with the sound, either. This is not a perfect world, and these were not from the original master tapes. Dee Dee Sharp is also not terrible. See how standards of reality apply. Not terrible is not a great way to judge something, but wait a minute! These are boots we're talkin' about here. The wonderful warmth of the orignals are missing, with Dee Dee's voice lacking that nice tone that it had when orignally issued, but again. No noise to speak of. Does it deaden the sound? I guess so. On balance, I'd buy it again if I lost it. Lastly, the Dovells. I nearly jumped out of my skin when I saw this last summer at a flee market for five bucks. I bought it and ran home with it like a stolen treasure. I played it like crazy, because I really enjoyed the orignals...and hadn't heard them for years. Now I have my record player hooked up for CD recording it's a different story, but back then I hadn't gotten around to having a vinyl source for playaback available. Sound on this disc is pretty bad. Supposidly from "Spain", this disc is pretty harsh, but again, I loved to hear Bristol Twistin' Annie and Your Last Chance again, not to mention Hully Gully Baby. So this one doesn't have the noise reduction application that is on the other three. Sound is brighter, but noise is much greater. Verdict: I think I prefer the ones with sound reduction better, even though it might lack the clairity and dynamic range of the Dovells disc. Some of the Dovells is pretty hard to listen to unless you are a diehard fan, other cuts are fairly good. Conclusion: As Parents Magazine had for years as their slogan when reviewing a movie of questionable moral value intended for adults only; A Matter of Taste. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-01-23 01:03:21 Comments: Hey Dave, lay off on Eric Records and Tom Daly's work. I personally like the SDARS system to an extent...it does the job. Unfortunately, I have some shocking news to share. A deal is currently being finalized that would give Time-Warner a controlling interest in EMI throughout the world. This is a scary thought, considering TW is now controllers of Rhino. Does this mean we'll see the EMI/Rhino "Legendary Mono Masters" series, or the "Ten Best in Mono" budget CD's, or even the recall of the "Pet Sounds" box set, since the album was according to Rhino "meant to be heard in mono only".? What are your thoughts? |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-23 02:09:50 Comments: For those who may be interested: The Chipmunks Greatest Hits-Curb D2-77591 is not bad at all. Especially for a Curb cd. The tracks are "The Chipmunk Song"- mono, "Alvin's Harmonica"-stereo, "Ragtime Cowboy Joe"-stereo, "Alvin's Orchestra"-mono, "The Alvin Twist"-stereo, "Whistle While You Work"-stereo, "All My Loving"-stereo, "A Hard Day's Night"-stereo, "Can't Buy Me Love"-stereo, and "I Want To Hold Your Hand"-stereo. While it would have been nice to have "Rudolph, The Red Nosed Reindeer" on it, this at least gives us their biggest hits (and most in stereo). I already had "Rudolph" on another disc, so this filled in the gaps. There is some hiss in some of the tracks, but nothing that overwhelms. I don't recall ever seeing "Alvin's Orchestra" in stereo, Henri. Do you have it in stereo on an lp? It would seem to be the elusive track to look for, as far as I'm concerned. Has anyone rented the DVD of Cooley High, yet? It is supposed to be released, as of Tuesday. I would love to know if "Fingertips, part 2 is in stereo on the soundtrack, like it was, on the original lp version. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-23 06:26:02 Comments: Allow me to thank my supporters, Groovin' Garrett, John Preston, Mike Arcidiacono and others who appreciate the SDARS process. Your votes of confidence are rays of sunshine on some otherwise snowy days in New England! I'd also like to thank my detractors, without whom these votes of confidence would not be posted. Specifically, I'd like to thank Little Walter DeVenne (the demigod of oldies), Thom Moulton (the undisputed king of first-time stereo), Bill Buster (the best reissue A&R guy in the business), Bob Hyde (for his effort locating great source tapes from Capitol/EMI Special Markets), Mike Callahan (for his critical evaluations) and Paul Stoddard (for his hearing and original sources). I would not enjoy the recognition I do without the help and pointers they've thrown my way. If I've left anyone out, believe me, it was an oversight! Thanks again, to all! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-23 10:03:07 Comments: If I wanted an all mono greatest hits package, I'd buy a good used vinyl (VG or better) of a mono greatest hits package, it's as simple as that. |
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Name: Mike
Parros Website: From: Hanson, MA Time: 2000-01-23 10:22:22 Comments: In regard to the discussion of the sound quality of the recent Eric discs and the "no balls" transfers of the Cameo-Parkway material, it's too bad that the detractors [specifically "Dave" and "A. B. Coe" (ABKCO???...cute!)] couldn't channel their energies into constructive criticism rather than taking cheap shots at the persons who have worked hard to present collectors with sought-after product. For example, you know that Bill Buster and Tom Daly produced the Eric packages. Have you contacted them personally to offer your constructive criticism in hope that they would listen to your suggestions and incorporate them into future product? Hiding behind phony names and taking cheap shots does nothing to improve the ultimate sound to which you aspire. If you focus on making specific suggestions, then perhaps someday, your ears will be treated to the "perfect sound". |
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Name: beetle Time: 2000-01-23 14:21:51 Comments: Bradley, not you too! There are lost of valid reasons for putting mono on CD. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-23 17:43:47 Comments: To Groovin' Garrett...the latest comments regarding a possible takeover of EMI (the story appeared here last week in Daily Variety and The Hollywood Reporter) show Bertelsmann (BMG) as the more likely suitor. In any case, I doubt we're likely to see any significant changes in future Capitol release patterns (mono/stereo) as a result of such a merger. Regarding previous mergers, Time Warner has pretty much let Warner Bros, Reprise, Atlantic, Elektra and Rhino determine what product to release and how it should be packaged (and mastered.) Universal has taken a more "hands on" approach to product releases and has been able to take the best of both worlds, in a sense, into consideration on certain concept releases such as the very successful and ongoing Millennium series which utilizes a fair share of MCA and former PolyGram repertoire. Garrett, the mega-companies are really more concerned with the profit/loss projections...whether sales on marginal product justifies the expenditure of releasing and promoting it. Whether it should be in mono or stereo is about as low in importance as whether the CD booklet should be a gatefold or stapled. Of course, it works to the benefit of collectors when the majors do not put out what they feel is marginal product as long as they will then license it to the most respected reissue labels, Varese, Taragon, Ace, Collectors' Choice, Collectables, etc. who generally will put more time and love into these reissues. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-23 20:24:20 Comments: I know that beetle, I was just giving the channel a hard time. I have lots of mono on CD as lots of stuff that was recorded in mono so I'm a mono fan as well as a stereo fan. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-23 20:26:55 Comments: If any of you don't know what I mean by "channel," in IRC terminology that means "chatroom." |
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Name: Jeff P. Website: Mega-Music Page Referred by: Yahoo! From: Quincy, MA Time: 2000-01-23 21:53:28 Comments: Hello, I have a Creedence question. I'm interested in upgrading my "Chronicle" CD (I've never been much impressed with the sound quality), and I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on whether I should go for the gold Fantasy CD, or the new Japanese JVC CD. Any help/recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks! |
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Name: David R.
Modny Time: 2000-01-23 23:16:10 Comments: I was just wondering if some of the Association fanatics here could comment on the recent Japanese reissues. I've been thinking of taking the rather steep plunge and would like to hear some different views. How do they compare, sonically, to the original Warner vinyl pressings, or the "From the Original Master Tapes" set from the early 90's? Any comments would be much appreciated! |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-24 00:04:56 Comments: David, I don't know about the individual lps, but stay away from "The Association's Greatest Hits" cd from Japan. It's the same as the domestic cd. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-24 02:37:45 Comments: To Groovin'...you wuz right! While last week's news items listed both Bertelsmann and Time Warner hot on the heels of EMI, it appears that Time Warner will be the one. But the essence of my last post is essentially the same. I don't think anyone will tinker with the way Capitol does their reissues. Time Warner is interested in bottom line. If Capitol meets their projections, that is really all that will matter. Besides, oldies reissues account for such a miniscule amount of their total business that I don't think anyone within the Time Warner hierarchy will care whether "Nobody But Me" by the Human Beinz comes out in mono or stereo. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-31 00:56:15 Comments: On his website, Tom Daley has some very interesting insight as to why Allen Klein may be sitting on those tapes. Go to http://www.sdars.net |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-01-31 01:07:31 Comments: Well, I'm not going to touch the moral issue of bootlegging, other than I do buy boots (or more often, make copies of boots my friends have). I'd be without some outstanding unreleased music without them (anyone who has heard The Who's "Live At Leeds Complete" has to agree with me). Anyway...yes, beetle, stereo does come into play. How about The Beatles' "Original Master Recordings" boot, with the first 4 albums in stereo? Or "A Stereo Quick One (While Pete's Away)" (The Who's "A Quick One" album in stereo)? Or (dare I say it) the various boots with mono versions of Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, etc... Or the Stones' "Strictly Stereo"... |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-01-31 01:07:58 Comments: Well, I'm not going to touch the moral issue of bootlegging, other than I do buy boots (or more often, make copies of boots my friends have). I'd be without some outstanding unreleased music without them (anyone who has heard The Who's "Live At Leeds Complete" has to agree with me). Anyway...yes, beetle, stereo does come into play. How about The Beatles' "Original Master Recordings" boot, with the first 4 albums in stereo? Or "A Stereo Quick One (While Pete's Away)" (The Who's "A Quick One" album in stereo)? Or (dare I say it) the various boots with mono versions of Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, etc... Or the Stones' "Strictly Stereo"... |
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Name: Anonymous Website: Time: 2000-01-31 11:12:07 Comments: Well, I am going to touch on the issues (moral and legal) of bootlegging. First legal: The law considers it illegal for you to copy AND distribute copyrghted material (whether you do it for a profit, or just to give to your friends!) Now moral: The intent of these laws are ot "protect" the owner of such copyrighted material from financial loss. That loss would usually come from lost sales of the copyrighted lmaterial. The point here is we are faced with a new issue. When you "copy" music (or software) you are not actually depriving the owner of the music; HE STILL HAS IT! What you may be depriving the owner of is his right to the profits from the sale of such material. I have purchased "grey area" discs of both the Beatles (1st four in stereo) and the Rolling Stones. My own personal opinion is that I have supported these artists by buying their material (often several times over) from their officially licensed sources. I promised myself that I would NEVER purchase the EMI releases of the first four Beatles albums until and unless they were released in STEREO. As the decision has been not to release the stereo versions, EMI/the Beatles are not losing anything from my most recent purchases. While I could take the time to "clean up" the vinyl I have purchased already (as some of the "self-styled home-producer wannabees" on this forum have done), I find that it takes a lot of time to get the job done correctly, therefore I go to the "grey area" discs. |
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Name: Anonymous too From: New York Time: 2000-01-31 12:27:07 Comments: After reading all these recent replies about bootlegging, I would like to confess the following. I have been carrying this around for 35 years..it has caused me great anxiety, fear, nightmares but I have kept it repressed until now. One day in the 60's, I turned on WABC and they played a new Beatles record before it was officially released. A friend that worked in radio said they obtained it illegally and should not have played it when they did. I heard the entire song. Did I commit an illegal act by merely listening to it (guilt by association?)and has the statute of limitations run out? I was careful to throw out that old radio yesterday in light of all these posts since someone once told me that radio waves can stay in a radio for years. Not being a technical person, I'm not sure if there is any truth to this. I'm glad I got this off my chest. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-31 13:52:41 Comments: "Anonymous" is wrong in one area. once original work is purchaced legally, a person is allowed to make one personal copy of it. He may do whatever he wishes with that original work he chooses, including selling it. He may do whatever he wishes with the copy. He may not, however, sell the copy. The law is in a grey area here, but that is what's allowed, one copy for personal use. What the law is concerned with is SELLING the copy for personal profit without compensation or royalties paid. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-31 14:34:59 Comments: Re:Bootlegs. When I was an idealistic young man right out of college, looking for a job in the record industry, I had the good fortune to get a job with a small record/tape manufacter run by a man who was a very well known figure in the 50s/60s record business due to his father, who will remain nameless. The family owned part of an extremely succesful printing plant that did nothing but LP jackets and picture sleeves. What I learned from him regarding bootlegs was this. The record companies could care LESS about some small time guy putting out 1,000 copies of an obscure artist from 1963. They simply dont care. In some cases, they even approve because they will get some free market feedback about the artist which may lead to a legit release later on. What the record companies DO care about is PIRACY...that is, a ring putting out 500,000 illegal copies of a Celine Dion Cd and selling it to foreign markets, which are really hard to trace. Piracy is what causes loss of sales, NOT bootlegging. This is because, If, I issue a Cd of the latest Springsteen concert, the record company loses NO sales,because the title was never for sale in their catalog in the first place!! In fact, the record companies also know that boots like those actually generate income, because they cause an artists back catalog to sell. That is why, my friends, you will rarely see a record company go after a small timer. As far as obscure artist boots, you would be shocked to know that the people in charge of reissues at large record companies often DONT KNOW they even own a certain artists material. There have been so many mergers, acquisitions, ect, that Sonys reissue guy doesnt know that they own Jackie and Gayles Mainstream recordings...or even who Jackie and Gayle were!! I spoke a reisue producer at Sony last year about a few possible releases, and this person did not even know the artists. Tells you alot about whats going on today. I do agree that stealing is stealing, however, think of all the stealing the big record companies did from their own artists during the 50s and 60s. Did you know that Wayne Newton, at the end of his 9 year run at Capitol Records, actually OWED them money? 'nuff said. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-31 15:42:47 Comments: Let Mike A.'s words be the last. Maybe i'll buy a boot. Heck, even some of the artists themselves collect boots. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-01-31 19:33:43 Comments: Come on, beetle. Wake up and smell the coffee. I could use an extra cup, while I'm at it. The great mono/stereo debate does play in the saga of bootlegging. It's bad enough now, but smart moves on the part of some record companies can keep it from getting worse. Complaints to Rhino of their insintence to release mono reissues (which sound is just plain sorry) weilded responses such as: "Look, we're gonna release this stuff the way we feel it should be listened to, and the public be damned." Research has shown that an excess of 60% of the music buying public prefer to listen to music in stereo. It just simply sounds better, that's all there is to it. Stereo sound does not in any way compromise the authenticity of the original recording, it betters it. If a good stereo mix can be manifested from the multi-track session tapes, by all means, go for it. I've seen so many stereo boots of the Beatles' first four British catalog album. And yet, I am quite aware of how high the public demand for EMI to release those discs in stereo, only to fall on deaf ears. Yes, beetle, stereo is one top reason for bootlegging. And as I said before, it won't stop unless the recording industy cures itself of "monoitis" and gives us more stereo. Definitely not enough said. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-01-31 20:07:39 Comments: I have a quick question for someone on this board who knows a lot about the Beatles. Is it not a fact that it's not EMI refusing to issue the Beatles first four albums in stereo but rather the remaining Beatles members and in particular George Martin?Just wondering. |
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Name: Jim From: Virginia Time: 2000-01-31 20:10:11 Comments: Hi All, Need your help on something I stumbled on recently. I usually pick up CD's only, but lately I have been patroling the vinyl bins for some old vinyl favorites. Recently I picked up a Sealed Vinyl Beach Boys album, titled "Surfin USA". This copy is neather ST-1890, SM-1980, or SN-16015. It is C1 0777 7 48422 1 1. If I am correct this number matches the single CD Capitol reissues that came out in 1994 after the two-for series was cancelled. Since this one is sealed, I do not want to open it to check the label, does anyone know is it a standard purple or a custom label. Anyone have any idea how many of these (this series) were manufactured. I never knew that Capitol - EMI was going to reissue the Beach Boys vinyl and I almost passed this one up thinking that it was the 1980 re-issue. Need your help on this one. Thanks, |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-31 20:38:27 Comments: One instance where the mono is more in demand by collectors is the Monkees album, "The Birds, The Bees and The Monkees" which has a book rate of $50-75 but of course there are people who do pay more or a little less as with everything else. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-31 21:19:21 Comments: Steve Massie, It is most likley Sir George Martin himself, though I don't think he hass that much pull at Apple. He has repeatedly stated that the first four Beatle albums were never intended for stereo release. Sure, the can be remixed, but I don't think anyone is really interested. The "Yellow Submarine" CD is remixed because the movie had to be redone for DVD. Lex, A lot of the current stereo tracks in comparison to their mono single counterparts do compromise the integrity of the mono hit. If you never paid attention to the way the 45's were mixed, you wouldn't know or care. I, for one, stand by Rhino's right to release the mono hit versions, just as I support your right not to buy them. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-01-31 22:58:21 Comments: Beetle, re: It *was* George Martin's decision in 1986/87 to release the first 4 in mono. At the time he claimed the first 2 should never be heard in stereo, and while he didn't like the stereo mixes for A Hard Day's Night and Beatles For Sale, he would be agreeable to remixing them, like he did with Rubber Soul and Help later. However, since he was brought in late in the game, there was no time for remixing them. Thus the mono mixes. However, later CDs tell a different story. Past Masters 1, which came out in 1988, has all of the 4-track recorded material in stereo, using the original mixes (even though the tracks were from singles and EPs, which were only issued in mono originally). Also, the Red CD, which came out in 1993, has (original, not remixes) stereo mixes of material from AHDN and BFS, as well as (even more interesting) "All My Loving" in stereo, which was done on two track - vocals in one channel, instruments in the other. The mix on the Red CD has the tracks brought a bit to the center... So, basically, while Martin claimed the existing stereo mixes for AHDN and BFS were no good, and the first two should never be issued in stereo, it looks like he's changed his mind. Another interesting note...almost all of Anthology 1 is in mono, even the stuff mixed from 4 track. The exceptions being the Tony Sheridan tracks (live to stereo), some tracks cut at IBC (3 track) and a few odd 4 track songs. Howver, the Free As A Bird single had This Boy (4 track) and I Saw Her Standing There (2 track) in nice stereo - go figure! Also, much of the mono stuff on Anthology 1 (in particular "One After 909" and "Can't Buy Me Love") has been issued in *outstanding* stereo on boot, and it sounds great. It's a shame more stereo wasn't used. |
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