This page contains all the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board during March, 2000. They are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific topics, use the "find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-01 00:47:17 Comments: Hmm...I guess I could see why Yackety Yak would be in mono (although I do like the stereo mix), but Stand By Me? That song sounds great in stereo. Dito for Respect. I can't say I've heard I Got You Babe in stereo to comment, and the intro to Soul Man is from a different take in stereo, so that's understandable (although, again, I prefer the stereo mix). In other news - I just got MP3s of "Gimme Some Lovin'", "You Really Got Me" and "All Day And All Of The Night" in stereo. The Kinks titles in particular sound really nice. I'd say the verdict is still out on Gimme Some Lovin' - it sounds like it could be a sync-up, but I'm not sure. There are some vocals during the chorus and the fade-out that I haven't heard before - it sounds like an additional Steve Winwood vocal track. At any rate, the quality of the MP3s isn't the greatest - hopefully I'll be able to get CD copies sooner or later. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-01 00:57:38 Comments: Otis Blue - I know Respect and I've Been Loving You Too long differ in mono and stereo, but are all the other songs the same? From reading Soulsville USA I get the impression that those 2 songs were cut as singles, then a few months later the album was recorded (in a couple very quick sessions - in stereo) and those 2 songs were re-cut for the LP. Leading me to believe all the other songs are the same in mono and stereo... Of course Rhino's CD reissue is in mono, so... |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-01 02:39:45 Comments: For those a bit older, or fans of early r&b, just released is a great 3 cd set called The Johnny Otis Complete Savoy Recordings, which is produced by Atlantic/Billy Vera. The matrix number is 92859-2. It contains all of the early Johnny Otis recordings, most of which sound fantastic! The recordings are from the late 40s to 1952, 77 songs total. I highly recommend it. |
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Name: John
Sellards From: Beckley, WV Time: 2000-03-01 09:31:41 Comments: Regarding "Mack The Knife" in mono or stereo, there is a subtle difference - the drums are much closer (not louder) in the mono, leading me to suspect that the stereo uses a different set of mics - possibly just two overhead? Of course, the track sounds like crap either way, with way too much distortion. Several songs are like that on the "That's All" LP, which I tracked down in mono because I couldn't stand all of the mix differences in the stereo (bad sound, then good sound with vocal hard left, then mediocre sound). And of course, in stereo, the best songs - "Mack The Knife", "Beyond the Sea" and "I'll Remember April" are the worst sounding! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-01 12:35:40 Comments: Atlantic's practice during those days was to record for mon, then re-record for stereo, even though they had multitrack capability. I think I read somewhere that "Mack..." was recorded twice, one for mono, and one for stereo. They are close, but you're right there are differences. I'm used to hearing the stereo. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-01 14:15:30 Comments: Beetle, re: Hmm...I've never heard that Atlantic did seperate sessions for mono and stereo. I believe they would often have a mono machine running side-by-side the 8 track, but not that they would re-record things. And while we're talking about Atlantic - *yes*, What'd I Say is the same take in mono and stereo, just edited in mono. Well, the "party" in the middle is different, but the music is all the same. |
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Name: John
Sellards From: Beckley, WV Time: 2000-03-01 15:21:08 Comments: There is no way I would believe that "Mack the Knife", or any other cuts off the album, are different recordings in mono and stereo. The only difference I hear in "Mack" is that the drums - really the kick drum - can be heard mic'd closer. And the telephone SFX in "Was There A Call For Me" happens a split second later in the stereo (how's that for trivia???) |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-03-01 15:56:09 Comments: Luke Pacholski: I've also heard the 2 Kinks cuts you've mentioned. To my ears they are definately sync ups. What is being done is that they let the entire song run in one channel as usual, then they sample the insttrumental bit from the begining of the song and repeat it over during the verses to match the rest of the song in the opposite channel. When the Chorus comes in-they sample, say, the second or third chorus from later in the song-and sync it with the first one-thus it sounds like you have stereo vocals. It must be a painstaking effort to put these things together, but im glad someone's taking the time to do it. Same goes for the champs "Tequila", Eddie Cochran's "Summertime Blues" and several others i've heard. It's impressive work. I would like to hear "gimmie some Lovin'" tho. Only wish i had the equipment to do this myself...somehow i dont think Cooledit is enough to pull this kind of stuff off. |
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Name: Cary From: Kansas Time: 2000-03-01 18:19:42 Comments: Recently, someone wanted to know where to get a complete list of CD's in the Capitol Collectors Series. There's a nearly complete list of 30 at Songfile. Just enter Capitol Collectors Series in the album search engine. http://songfile.snap.com/ |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-01 18:29:31 Comments: I'll have to go back and read the reccent interview with Tom Dowd in Stereophille or EQ magazine. I'm sure he said this. There are a lot of Atlantic re-recordings for stereo. It does make sense, since they had multitrack capability, that they played back the instrumental tracks to different vocal takes. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-01 20:39:12 Comments: Ok, here are a few quotes from Tom Down and Arif Mardin, in Mix Magazine and Studio Sound respectively. Dowd: "And we didn't have our own room going then, so I had to do it at Fulton on West 40th Street. Later it was called Coastal. I brought equipment into that studio, gave it to two or three other guys, set up the mics, and let them operate the stereo machine while I went back upstairs and did the initial mix recording because I knew the room like the palm of my hand. At the time, of course, they only released the mono version. We did "Mack the Knife"..." "But when I was doing Bobby Darin, The Coasters and all of those things, if they were done at Atlantic, they were done on 8-track. So that ultimately, when stereo came around, you just whip out the old tape, remix it and issue it. "Here it is in stereo." Those 8-tracks paid for themselves a couple of times over 20 years later." "The other place that I took it that really paid for it a hundred times over, was when I took it to the Copacabana for Bobby Darin at the Copa. That was done on 8-track. After that, in New York, it became fashionable to have a truck, and later you could hire two 8-track machines or whatever configuration you wanted. Mardin: "'Jerry Wexler, and Ahmet, and Tom Dowd would record there, and even when there was an 8-track recorder available, they would still often use that just for a safety and record right to a 2-track or to mono. You only went to the multitrack if there was some disaster. But usually you got what you wanted on the very first take.'" |
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Name: beetle, the corrected Time: 2000-03-01 22:47:34 Comments: O.K., aleady! |
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Name: the
fan From: sydney,australia Time: 2000-03-02 09:21:21 Comments: can anyone tell me where the lovin spoonful master tapes had been hiding all these years?i go to the buddha records website as i read somewhere that they were readying a spoonful rarities set(2 cd )this year and then i thought they must have found the session tapes to do a project like that and i surf in and find out they have found the tapes and are releasing a best of mastered from these tapes,well i heard the disc in a shop the other day and i must say that the sound quality is SUPERB if you have any of the other best of's,junk em!!are there any articles out there where i can read up on about the production of the cd and who had the tapes because i recall reading an interview with john sebastian in"discoveries" magazine in late'97 or '98 and he mentioned that the tapes were thrown out in the 70's because kama sutra wouldn't pay the storage fees,so even at that late stage the tapes were m.i.a. also bobby darin,i've seen a cd called "roberto cassotto aka bobby darin-rare,rockin' and unreleased",judging by the track list it seems to have atlantic era outtakes,the track list is includes things like "splish splash(takes 1,2,6&7) and "queen of the hop(takes 5,6,7,8&9),"mack the knife(takes3&7),i thought "all" the pre 1968 seesion masters were destroyed years ago?? |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-02 11:24:59 Comments: Re: Masters. I was laughing when I read the note about The Lovin' Spoonful and Bobby Darin tapes. It proves once again, that alot of the master tapes that we were told were "thrown out", "lost", "stolen", "destroyed by fire", ect, really werent, and are sitting on a shelf somewhere in a tape vault. I've almost never believed the "the tapes were thrown away" stories, because any tape of any artist that had commercial success represents past AND future $$$ to his/her record company. So many tapes have been misfiled because people were lazy, tapes were sent to another record company when songs were licensed, and never returned, people quit or got fired, and therefore werent there to follow up, ect. Time after time, "lost" masters show up as nice and pretty as they day they were made. Remember Clark Enslin a few years ago? He paid 6,000 to a couple who had bid on an auction of unknown, abandoned items in a warehouse...and came across 200 master reels of tape from Columbia Records from the '60s!! Nobody threw them away, they werent destroyed, they were in storage for years, CBS sold to Sony, fired everyone, and nobody from the new SONY regime even knew they were there. RELIC found masters on stuff that was supposed to be LONG gone, like "In The Still Of The Night". Its really a matter of digging untill everything there is accounted for. Look at Rhino. Just by buying Roulette, they own so many masters from the other labels (Hull, Roost, ect) that they will probably never straighten it out!! Mikey |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: San Fran. bay area Time: 2000-03-02 13:45:12 Comments: Just a quickcouple of notes: #! when asking questions on board, please leave your e-mail address, we don't bite, but can't help, without it! #2 If Queen of the hop has so many takes, why is it always bad? Now, to the heart of the matter, recently I found this disc "Duane Eddy" [That Classic Twang] BCD 15702 AH, sub-titled "13 tunes in STEREO for the first time! I have never seen a review of this by [MC] or in the good book. Oh yes, it is on "Bear Family" let me list contents Rebel Rouser [m] before Discoveries discovery!, moovin N' Groovin'[m], Ramrod [M], Cannonball [M], Mason Dixon Lion [M], Lonely One [M], Three-30-blues [stereo], Yep [M]"from new tape", Peter Gunn [stereo] "great sound", 40 miles of bad road [M], The Quiet Three [stereo] "nice", Some Kinda Earthquake [STEREO], Bonnie Came Back [stereo],First love, First tears [stereo], first gen. also, Shazam [M], Because Their Young [ Stereo] "wider than Rhino's version, Kommotion [M]. Pepe [stereo], Theme from Dixie [stereo]"great sound", Ring of Fire [M], Driving Home [stereo], Gidget goes Hawaiian [stere], Avenger [stero] Shazam [stereo] first above for Beetlefan? Hope this hasn't appeared recently, nice disc,after box set I believe? Chuckles |
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Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, TX Time: 2000-03-02 15:49:13 Comments: The Duane Eddy Jamie material is out of print at Bear Family, so if you find 'em, get 'em. The box set of Jamie material is outstanding. Too bad, it too, is out of print. Maybe the Atlantic fire was just a (ahem) smoke screen... Seriously, though, is it possible that since Atlantic recorded so much material that ALL of it would not reside in one place but with various studios and producers? Maybe that's how this "Atlantic" session stuff is trickling out. I would like to think that Lieber and Stoller, Tom Dowd, and others would have session reels (at least a few). |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-03 02:00:18 Comments: Actually, Chuck, that Duane Eddy cd was reviewed by Mike Callahan, right after it came out. That's what lead me to buy it. You're so right. It's great! Incidently, has anyone out there ever thought of putting out a "folk box" set, containing such things as Kirby St. Romain's "Summer's Comin'", "Hootenanny" by the Glencoves, "Stranger In Your Town" by The Shacklefords, the single version of "If I Had A Hammer" by Peter, Paul, and Mary, etc. Along with those unreleased cd tracks, they could add others by Highwaymen, Kingston Trio, and dozens of other artists. I've got the money to buy it, if someone has the resources and desire to put it together. I would love to see the afore-mentioned tracks in stereo, from the original masters. I'm sure that "Hootenanny" and "Summer's Comin'" are privately owned. It troubles me that out there, the masters are sitting in a box or file somewhere, deteriating, while we collector's would love to have them preserved on cd. I know that folk cds have been released, but none that are definitive Hot 100 releases. Most just recycle the same tunes, over and over. By the way, though I love the unedited version of "Greenback Dollar", I would also love to have the stereo, "censored", 45 version, as well. |
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Name: Vic From: PA Time: 2000-03-03 11:37:27 Comments: Just a fast note regarding one of the tracks on Vol. 3 of the Cameo-Parkway material: The stereo version of "This Can't Be True" by Eddie Holman is a different version than the single from 1966. This one lacks the organ that becomes prominent late in the original. The CD version also eventually ends cold with the musicians stopping. The single faded at the end. |
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Name: Charles
Ellis From: Staten Island, NY Time: 2000-03-03 21:01:31 Comments: I just want to remind everyone that yesterday (3/2) was the 1-year anniversary of the passing of Dusty Springfield. Do me a favor- take a moment to think of this great lady and fabulous singer who meant so much to so many. Better yet, listen to her music and marvel that we were so lucky to have her around......by the way, we should ALL thank Eliot Goshman at Taragon for the great stereo on the Dusty 2fer- if only he were allowed more access to the Universal/Polygram vaults to fix those masters which have been improperly released in fake stereo! Here's to you, Dusty- the ORIGINAL Spice Girl!! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-03-04 09:50:58 Comments: The censored 45 version of "Greenback Dollar" is on a recent Collectors Choice 2-fer CD, can't remember which disc (I think it's "New Frontier", not sure) but it has both the album (unedited) version (in its' original < |
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Name: Joe
Reynolds From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-04 18:58:27 Comments: Interesting posts. I was wondering if anyone had ever found Brian Hyland's "Gypsy Woman" in true stereo...hard to believe that a track recorded in '69 or '70 wouldn't turn up in stereo somewhere. I've also had no luck finding The Bob Seger System's "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" anywhere on CD in stereo or otherwise. Any help?? Lastly, I heard last year that Rhino would be releasing the first few Everly Brothers albums on Warner Bros. (A Date With, It's Everly Time, etc.) So far I've seen only the hits package released late last year. Anyone know if Rhino still plans to reissue this stuff??? |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-04 21:01:16 Comments: First of all, to appreciate stereo sound is not at all an obsession, it is a right, and it belongs to people of all ages. This sclub here is almost 44, yet he still has two ears and not just one. Second, Rhino's continual insistence to shove mono down our throats in the name of authenticity, combined with one particular poster's rush to defense of Rhino's practice, is just plain sorry. Third, as I have said before, stereo sound does not in any way compromise an original recording, it betters it. Chapter and verse. |
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Name: Leonard Time: 2000-03-04 22:44:02 Comments: I have an idea guys, just ignore Rhino. Pretend they don't exist. Just don't even bring them up. As for Stereophille, I find it interesting that he went to the SDARS site and posted the same thing here, except he changed the acronym "BSN" to "SDARS". If that isn't an attempt to railroad someone off two boards because of a personal hatred, what is? |
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Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-04 23:21:41 Comments: Tonight at 10:00pm ET, Dick Bartley played a different stereo mix of "Hang On Sloopy" by the McCoys. Does anyone know the story about this second, and perhaps a third, stereo mix being around now? It sure took long enough to discover the multis for the first mix on the Legacy CD about five years ago! |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-05 01:47:20 Comments: No, Joe Reynolds, "Gypsy Woman" by Brian Hyland has never been released in stereo. It's my understanding that even Brian Hyland doesn't know where the multitracks are. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that it's among Del Shannon's things, since he produced the session. It may turn up one of these days. One that won't is "Why Can't We Live Together" by Timmy Thomas. He has said, publicly, that he recorded that tune at home, on a home recorder, and it was never recorded in stereo. Bob Seger's "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" is one of those hits that I doubt will ever see the "stereo light of day". If it was recorded that way, it may be lost. But, boy would that song sound great in stereo! Let's all keep our fingers crossed that the stereo master will be found, if it exists. |
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Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, Texas Time: 2000-03-05 12:14:28 Comments: The Dick Bartley "0ne Hit Wonders" had a stereo mix of the McCoys' "Hang On.." with the edited out mono verse spliced into the stereo mix. Was that what you may have heard? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-05 15:48:00 Comments: The long version of "Hang On Sloopy" was remixed to stereo some time ago. A 45 edit of this new stereo mix was created for Varese Vintage's Dick Bartley "On The Radio" series. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-05 16:55:21 Comments: The stereo mix Dick Bartley plays of "Hang On Sloopy" is not the one created from the two track master by Bob Irwin a few years ago. This is a brand new mix done from session tapes never before used. In transferring the F.G.G. session tapes last summer I found the original four track backing track for "Hang On Sloopy" and then I found the three track vocal track on a separate tape. I then gave an ADAT of these seven tracks to Dave Daugherty and asked him to create a brand new, first time stereo mix. This is what you're hearing Dick Bartley play. By the way, this new mix should be available later this year on a Varese Vintage CD. Dave did a great job of first balancing the four backing tracks and then adding the vocal track on top of those tracks. For those of you who haven't heard it I think you'll be amazed at how good it sounds. By the way that Varese CD should also contain the first-ever correct single edit of "I Want Candy" in stereo. I was able to create it from the original two track session masters that were also in the F.G.G. tapes. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-05 17:37:37 Comments: I hope this means that Varese Vintage is continuing the "On The Radio" and "Lost 45's" sreies. I can't wait to hear "Hang On Sloopy"! |
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Name: Mark
Hanson Website: From: Niles, MI Time: 2000-03-05 22:10:35 Comments: As a Donovan fan, I bought the BGO version of "a gift from a flower to a garden" when it was released in 1993. Lovely packaging, but MONO! So I saw it at Tower Records today with a silver sticker: "Remastered from original master tapes / Additional sleeve notes / Faithfully restored artwork." Maybe I am a sucker for remastered stuff. Anyway, I got it home and it is STEREO! None of the other sticker information is correct (no changes to the booklet, and they actually removed the album artwork from the inside of the case and put a BGO ad for their two other Donovan albums in its place). But the sound quality is excellent! The only way to tell an unstickered copy is the new master is the color behind the clear insert is now white instead of yellow. Anyone got the remastered "In Concert" CD and can tell me about it? |
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Name: Mark
Hanson Website: From: Niles, MI Time: 2000-03-05 22:32:34 Comments: BTW, my own 2 pennies on the controversies a few weeks ago over "good sound / bad sound". It would be interesting to hear whether the disagreeing parties listened through headphones or speakers. It is my experience that many pieces of music that sound wonderful through speakers sound worse through 'phones, because the listener gets more detail (of phasing problems, brief dropouts, etc). And it makes a great difference in the mono/stereo question. I find the first four Beatles CDs unlistenable through headphones (as I do most mono stuff...) but on my home stereo or in the car, they just leap out of the speakers. All IMHO, of course. |
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Name: terryoregon Time: 2000-03-05 22:38:01 Comments: Speaking of Dick Bartley, last summer I purchased "The Collector's Essentials: The 60s". I was looking for a clean mono copy of Laurie by Dickey Lee. I did a song search on Amazon.com and Dick Bartley's CD came up. When I got the CD, I just about fell down when I heard Laurie in stereo. There is a little distortion in the first five seconds (tics and pops that can be heard on headphones), so this might have been mastered from vinyl, but overall it sounds pretty good. Since this was done by Varese, perhaps Steve Massie can confirm this. You remember this spooky song don't you? It's about a guy who meets a girl at a dance. One problem though, the girl has already assumed room temperature. I remember hearing this song on KOMA (Oklahoma) as a teenager. It created a real stir. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-06 00:42:31 Comments: terryoregon, thanks for the tip. I'll get that CD. Mark H., I never really thought of that. I do my listening through loudspeakers. That would certainly influence one's opinion of mono/stereo. I only use headphones when mastering vinyl to CD-R to catch the detail. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-06 01:42:01 Comments: For those who may be interested, Westside has released a new cd of R & B called Bluesoul Belles, Vol 2; The Tribe and Jetstream Recordings 1964-1976; Jean Knight and Barbara Lynn; WESA 826 which contains 33 tracks of mostly clean, clear, great R&B. On the stereo front, however, it's a bust. There are only 4 stereo tracks--"(Until Then) I'll Suffer", "Take Your Love And Run", "Disco Music", and "Movin On A Groove". Still, if you are a lover of great r&b, this is a pretty good cd to have. It does have the single "You Left The Water Running", by Barbara Lynn, which bubbled under the Hot 100 and made the R&B charts. Does anyone know why there are no stereo releases of the Tribe label recordings? They were recording well into the late sixties. Surely, some of them were recorded in stereo. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-06 13:13:59 Comments: Yes, the stereo version of "Laurie" by Dickey Lee did come from an original album. Unfortunately that was done before the advent of today's programs that can remove those pops and clicks so it sounds a bit rough. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-06 13:50:31 Comments: Re: Beach Boys. The March issue of ICE magazine had a very interesting article about the Beach Boys. Heres the skinny: The "Endless Harmony" Cd from 1998 will be remastered in 24 bit, WITH some remixes. If you remember, this CD had "Surfer Girl" in two track stereo. The remastered Cd will have a NEW stereo Mix of Surfer Girl, and I'm hoping the vocals will be spread out. Also, the guy who is in charge of the BB Cataloge said that they will be reinstating the Two-Fer releases of ALL the BB LPs, all done with 24 bit mastering.This is very good news!! Also coming out is a DVD of the VH1 special, with 5.1 mixes of 4 songs, "Kiss Me Baby" being among them. And lastly, all the Brother LPs are now owned by Capitol and will remastered and released on CD, later in March. And YES, "The Beach Boys In Concert", one of the nicest concert LPs ever released, will be issued, and its being done from the first generation masters, which were never used for anything. They made a point to say that they got the absolute first generation masters for ALL the Brother LPs, which is no mean feat. The sound quality on these is said to be stunning. Really, Really great news for BB fans. BUT.....if they REALLY wanted to do something radical, they would release the Sea of Tunes Series of Bootleg BB sessions as a legit product!! I think they would be STUNNED at the amount of people who would buy them. Maybe thats a good project for thier on line pilot project. EMI, are you listening? Mikey |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-03-06 15:15:19 Comments: As for the great debate (stereo/mono), I feel that it has a great deal to do with whether one listens via loudspeakers or via headphones to these tunes. Stereo is noticeable and can be appreciated more on headphones and rather well on loudspeakers when positioned correctly. I started out a true stereo collector (like most of us) and still seek those stereo mixes! I have over the years however, come to appreciate those punchy, unique single mixes (take the Beatles "Revolution", "I Want To Hold Your Hand" and many Motown songs) as being just that, the original 45 mono mixes. They sit along side my stereo mixes rather nicely. I don't like "mono for the sake of mono", however. |
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Name: A.N. Website: From: USM Time: 2000-03-06 18:42:15 Comments: Steve, re removing pops and clicks; I'm surprised that no one used components like the SAE 5000A; I used that regularly before the advent of noise removal software. That software has been based on some of the algorithms developed for that circuitry - and those components were available more than 20 years ago! |
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Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 2000-03-06 21:48:21 Comments: For those of you that have been waiting patiently for someone to locate the multi-tracks for the Animals early hits, this will be a bit of a disappointment. I'm reading a fascinating book titled "Inside Tracks - A First Hand History Of Popular Music From The World's Greatest Record Produces And Engineers". It's written by Richard Buskin. Each chapter is about one producer or engineer, and mostly in their own words. Chapter 7 is Mickie Most, and he says "The Animals got on tour with Chuck Berry on the strength of a top 20 hit called 'Baby Let Me Take You Home' and they would perform 'House Of The Rising Sun' on stage. I thought it should be their next single, so after they'd played a show in Liverpool, they got on a sleeper overnight to London, and I picked them up early the next morning along with their drum kit, amplifiers and all their gear. We booked into Kingsway Recording Studio for a three hour session from eight till eleven, and by 8:15, Take 2, I said "That's the one!'. Then, in the remaining two hours and 45 minutes, we made the album. That consisted of songs they wanted to record, really. Songs they had rehearsed and played many times as part of their repertoire, so I said 'Okay, go for it'. We did everything live, straight to mono, and that's how it all started. After that, for me, it was a case of hit after hit. The next one was 'Tobacco Road' with The Nashville Teens, followed by 'I'm Into Something Good' with Herman's Hermits." While he doesn't go into detail about the recording process for the Herman's Hermits songs, it's a safe bet that at least for the early ones, the process was the same, although since session players were involved, anything is possible. Later he goes on to say "Still, as we moved towards the late sixties, things began to change technically. We went from mono to stereo, 4 track to 8 track to 16 track, and things obviously began to take longer, but personally, I like to just get in and get out of the studio". I suppose this clearly explains why none of the early Animals or Herman's Hermits songs have ever shown up in stereo, at least up until "A Must To Avoid". |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-06 22:57:41 Comments: Dave, re: Yea, I was aware that the Animals stuff was only done in mono. However, somebody told me a year or two ago that stage tapes do exist... I wonder if Kingsway was only mono, or if they only used a mono machine - a number of Rolling Stones songs were cut there (as well as Regent Sound - anyone know about them?). On the subject of Micky Most - why haven't we heard any of Donovan's early stuff in stereo? Somebody once said the multitracks were recorded over, but someone else said all the tapes exist safely in EMI's vaults... Anyone know? |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-06 22:57:56 Comments: Dave, re: Yea, I was aware that the Animals stuff was only done in mono. However, somebody told me a year or two ago that stage tapes do exist... I wonder if Kingsway was only mono, or if they only used a mono machine - a number of Rolling Stones songs were cut there (as well as Regent Sound - anyone know about them?). On the subject of Micky Most - why haven't we heard any of Donovan's early stuff in stereo? Somebody once said the multitracks were recorded over, but someone else said all the tapes exist safely in EMI's vaults... Anyone know? |
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Name: David R.
Modny Time: 2000-03-07 04:17:22 Comments: Re: Remixed Beach Boys "Endless Harmony" CD tracks. Mike, the new "Surfer Girl" mix will be a vocals-only mix. In addition, "California Girls", "Kiss Me Baby", the 'early version' of "Do It Again", and the live "Surf Medley" were re-mixed (again!) for the reissue. This is, of course, on top of the seven new 5:1 surround remixes that will be on the DVD release (accompanied by stills and footage)! |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-07 11:04:12 Comments: Re: Animals, Hermits, Mickey Most. Theres really no secret about the early Micky Most Productions. He was a big mono fan, and recorded mono even if the studios had stereo machines, like Abbey Road. He liked to record full track mono, and especially on the those BTR full trackers, the noise level was very low for its time. Then, if additional parts were desired (doubling the vocals, for example) he would add the new parts live to a second full track machine, mixing on the fly. The Hermans Hermits tracks had a bunch of bounces because they had harmony vocals, strings, overdubbed guitar solos (yes, by Jimmie Page), ect. The Animals were more a "roots" group, so there probably wasnt all that much bouncing done there. And from what I'm told, EMI has the Hermits stage tapes safely tucked away in their vaults. I'd really like to hear the early Hermits stuff in some type of stereo. Even if the guitar solo and backing vocals on say, "Henry The 8th" could be put on the left side of the stereo field, I think It would sound much better than the flat mono we've had to deal with for 35 years!! Mikey |
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Name: Alan T From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-07 21:31:38 Comments: I would not wait very long for Mickie Most productions to appear in stereo, they probably never will. Mickie Most himself has a policy of not storing multitracks. If any multitracks exist, they would have to stored by a third party such as a recording studio. When EMI in the USA complied the Yardbirds: Little Games Sessions and More, they discovered many multitracks stored in various studios the Mickie Most did not think existed anymore. To my knowledge, no Most produced Animals’ tracks have appeared in stereo anywhere. Donavan stereo stuff has come out in UK. The US versions of Hurdy Gurdy Man and Barbajagal LP’s are stereo in the “Four Donovan Originals” (UK EMI) CD set. Unfortunately, US versions the Sunshine Superman and Mellow Yellow are mono. ICE had a column on the BGO reissue of “From a Flower to a Garden”. Abbey Road claimed they did not have a tape of the LP and directed BGO to Japan EMI, who had a mono tape that was used for the early pressings of the CD. Psychedelia at Abbey Road (UK EMI) contains a “full version” of the song Sunshine Superman in stereo. Maybe someone could post the stereo contents of the UK EMI greatest hits and both versions of the US Epic greatest hits packages. |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 2000-03-08 06:01:12 Comments: Attention Steve Massie: Please email me. I've lost your address. Thanks! |
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Name: Uncle
Al From: Long Island Time: 2000-03-08 07:01:33 Comments: I am slightly confused over The Donovan catalog being in mono. I have recently been looking into picking up some of his CD's (all my Donovan is currently vinyl)and thought the great majority of his catalog was already available in stereo. The US Barabajacal (sp?) VINYL album is all stereo. The US greatest hits VINYL album is all stereo (including Sunshine Superman and Hurdy Gurdy Man), except for Mellow Yellow. On CD, I have a Time-Life 60's compilation which also has SS in stereo (the single edit!), but a similar compilation from Rhino has HHM in mono. Another volume from Rhino has "Atlantis" in stereo. If I were to pick up the CD's (most specifically SS, Barabajackal, and Greatest Hits (expanded), are they now in mono? If so, I will make CD'R's of my vinyl. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-08 16:34:24 Comments: Singer Pee Wee King Dies By THOMAS S. WATSON, Associated Press Writer LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - Frank ``Pee Wee'' King, who co-wrote the ``Tennessee Waltz'' and helped introduced several instruments and musical styles to the Grand Ole Opry, died Tuesday. He was 86. King had been hospitalized after suffering a heart attack Feb. 28. Born Julius Frank Anthony Kuczynski in Abrams, Wis., King wrote ``Tennessee Waltz'' with fellow band member Redd Stewart in 1947. The two said they wrote it on an unfolded matchbox as they were riding in Stewart's truck. While King's recording did well, a version of the song by Patti Page became a No. 1 pop hit and sold 65 million copies. It became the state song of Tennessee in 1965. King joined the Grand Ole Opry in 1937. During his 10-year run on the popular country music radio show, he was among the first to do polkas, cowboy songs and waltzes, as well as use trumpets, drums and electric guitar in his band. King's Golden West Cowboys were outfitted in colorful western outfits designed by the Hollywood tailor Nudie, a look other stars emulated. Future stars like Eddy Arnold, Cowboy Copas and Ernest Tubb played in King's band. In 1974, he was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. ``I learned a lot about showmanship from him,'' said Arnold, who played guitar with Golden West Cowboys in the 1940s. King and the band appeared in several of Gene Autry's movies. They also appeared in Westerns with Charles Starret, the Durango Kid, and Johnny Mack Brown. Funeral services were scheduled for Saturday. |
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Name: Matt
Hoffman Website: Referred by: Yahoo! Time: 2000-03-10 02:44:06 Comments: Hi All...... Just stumbled across the Both Sides Now webpage and just spent an hour or so checking out the Stereo Chat archives. My kind of place! Can anyone out there help me locate STRAWBERRY ALARM CLOCK's "Incense & Peppermints" in Stereo? To my knowledge, this song has only been released in mono. Many years ago, I read in Goldmine magazine that the song was slated to appear in true stereo on an MCA rarities compilation, but the multi-track master could not be located. Perhaps it has been located since then? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-10 02:53:38 Comments: Welcome Matt. To my knowledge, "Insence And Peppermints" has not been released on CD anywhere. Anyone care to offer information? |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-03-10 08:19:30 Comments: actually, beetle, you might mean that "Incense & Peppermints" has not seen the light of day in stereo on CD (or on vinyl for that matter). It appears in mono on the Vintage Music series of CDs put out by MCA (Steve Hoffman's mastering) from the mid-80s (actually, one of the first series of CDs that got me into CDs). |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: B. R., LA Time: 2000-03-10 08:39:07 Comments: RE Incense & Peppermints. It also appears on Time-Life's Classic Rock 1967, and, of course, on the Long Out Of Print Strawberry Alarm Clock Anthology. I just happened to see one of those in a used shop just the other day. Since Dave pointed out that it was on the original Vintage Music series, I wouldn't doubt that it has also appeared in the recently deleted budget series called Vintage Collectibles from MCA. They are currently selling in Circuit City stores for $3.99. Talk about a real one-hit wonder! |
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Name: Markie Website: godtithes From: Colorado Time: 2000-03-10 10:21:04 Comments: I actualy have a question. What was the first song recorded in Motown? |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-10 10:45:25 Comments: Re: Incense and Peppermints This track is also on one of the Rhino "Garage comps", I think the first one. I havent pulled it out in quite a while to check I&P, BUT, alot of the tracks on it are stereo, which means there was a concerted effort made to get the stereo mixes. I'll check it tonite. Ah, those wonderful days when R-h-i-n-o meant S-T-E-R-E-O. Mikey |
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Name: Sonny Fan Website: Sonny Bono Atco Homepage Time: 2000-03-10 10:51:06 Comments: Can anyone comment on Atlantic / Atco's 1968-69 CSG Compatible Stereo Process? Howard Holzer invented it, but what did 'CSG' stand for? Atco 45s at the time were credited as 'CSG Processed Mono Masters'. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-10 10:58:27 Comments: Not sure if you will find the answer to your question of what was the very first Motown release, but there is an informative bit of information at the following site: http://www.bsnpubs.com/motownstory.html The question of what was the very first #1 hit was posed as a question on one of Dick Bartley's recent weedend radio shows. Did you get a chance to hear that? |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-10 11:26:22 Comments: Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed to me Incense and Peppermints was in stereo on the Austin Powers CD. Don't quote me on that, but you may want to try that avenue... |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-10 11:32:48 Comments: The answer to the question regarding the very first Motown release can be found at the following link: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1488/engmotown1.htm |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 2000-03-10 11:34:16 Comments: What are "stage" tapes? That's a new term for me. Thanks. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-10 12:14:14 Comments: Sonny Fan: If you scroll back in the archives to around last fall, you will find discussion about "SCG Compatable Stereo". If memory serves, this was reprocessed mono? The first hit single from Motown was "Money" by Barrett Strong, on October, 1959 on the Tamla label. It was re-released on March 11, 1960. The first Motown #1 hit was "Shop Around" by the Miracles, released in October 15, 1960. They were recorded in mono. I got the information fron the booklet in the "Motown Singles Collection: 1959-1971". It has many Motown hits in the ORIGINAL mono mixes. |
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Name: Alan
Carner From: Fort Smith Time: 2000-03-10 12:33:08 Comments: I seem to recall that Incense and Peppermints was going to be an alternate stereo take on the Vintage Music Series Vol. 20. But Steve Hoffman wasn't there anymore, and the wrong tape was pulled, so we got the Mono 45 version again. The song was also on volume 9, in mono |
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Name: David R.
Modny Time: 2000-03-10 13:08:17 Comments: "Incense and Peppermints" is mono on the Austin Powers soundtrack also. :( |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-10 13:37:17 Comments: beetle, the first #1 song on the MOTOWN label was the question -- Shop Around is not the right answer (Shop Around peaked at # 2). As indicated at the URL I listed earlier, the correct answers to each question (first MOTOWN release & first MOTOWN #1) can be found there. Barret Strong's Money is indeed the first Motown single to break into the top 40, but not their first release. |
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Name: Charlene
Princo Website: n/a Referred by: From a Friend From: Philly and now Evansville, In. Time: 2000-03-10 14:05:57 Comments: I have a 45 titled MIDNIGHT MARY by Joey Powers, on AMY (blue)label. On the flip side is WHERE DO YOU WANT THE WORLD DELIVERED. As you look at the record on the left side is JIMSKIP MUSIC under that is BMI 5079. On the right is 892 and under that is TIME 2:18. Under the title of the song is (WAYNE-RALEIGH), Then JOEY POWERS, then PRODUCED BY ARTIE WAYNE. I've used upper case letters as they are found on the label. I do not see this on your site. I do believe I bought this record before 1960 as I went to Germany for 5 years and had stopped buying records for dancing. I wish you could help me with a date for this. Many thanks, Charlye |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-10 14:46:41 Comments: For Bill Knoble: Bill,"Stage Tapes" refers to the practice of using two mono machines to do overdubs .This was done before the advent of the stereo machine, or the Multitrack machine. Heres an example of how it works: A band and singer are recorded in mono on machine A. Lets say you want to overdub a female chorus singing backrounds. Machine A is put into playback mode, and listening with headphones are the female singers, who then sing their parts live in time to the playback. Everything is now recorded on Machine B. Machine B has the finished product, while Machine A has a Stage Tape...that is a tape of part of the finished product, but not the whole thing. These days, with computer syncing, you could take Tape A and tape B, and sync them so that a true stereo mix could be made. thats something they could not do in the early days, as the tapes would go out of sync too quickly. I hope this clears the subject up for you. Mikey |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-03-10 15:34:53 Comments: Here's a question I hope someone can answer. In one of the recent issues of ICE magazine-there's a listing for a collection "Dick Bartley Presents The Greatest Girl Groups Of All time" (or something like that)to be released on Varese some time this month. Has anyone come accross A track listing for this and the possible stereo content? Any help would be appreciated. |
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Name: Alan T From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-10 16:01:18 Comments: “Money” by Barrett Strong was originally released on Anna #1111. Motown bought out Anna and “Money” was reissued as Tamla #54027. It’s hard to way what were the first releases were on Talma/Motown. Tamla 101 was Marv Johnson “Come To Me”, which was released nationally on United Artists #160. Motown #1 (or actually G1/G2) was The Miracles “Bad Girl”, which was released nationally as Chess #1734. Both these records are believed to be Detroit only releases done so Motown could promote them locally. "SCG Compatable Stereo" is a mastering system that allows stereo records to be played with a mono pickup. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-10 16:02:13 Comments: Steve Baird, "Shop Around" reached #1 on the Billboard R&B chart, and #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1960. As far as Tamala, Gordy, Anna, Soul, VIP, MoWest, Rare Earth, and the others are concerned, they're all Motown, so they are generically referred to as Motown. , Sometimes companies use diffrent labels to market their music to different audiences or styles. Atlantic's custom label was Atco. Stax and Volt were different companies altogether that were, until 1968, only distrubuted by Atlantic. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-10 16:05:46 Comments: Just a quick clarification before Luke jumps in: Volt was label extention of Stax, so they were also one and the same. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-10 16:59:18 Comments: CSG - probably "Stereo Compatible Groove" . Steve Massie and I both worked on the forthcoming Dick Bartley Girl Groups" package. I think if you buy him an expensive gift from The Sharper Image, he may be willing to post the track listing here for BSN readers! |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-10 17:00:37 Comments: Or make that: COMPATIBLE STEREO GROOVE! |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-10 19:35:24 Comments: Since Marty Wekser has threatened to cut off my allowance (and believe me it is a very generous allowance) I figured I better post the track lineup for the upcoming "Dick Bartley Presents The Alltime Greatest Girl Groups" CD. First, let me assure you, because the licensing policies from most of the majors are getting even worse there are lots of titles we requested that were turned down.That being said, here goes: 1. My Boyfriend's Back--I remixed this directly from the four track session tape that had never been used before so not only is the sound outstanding but the track runs about 20 seconds longer than any other version. 2.Boy From New York City (stereo) 3.Baby Love (stereo) 4. Mama Said (stereo) 5.Remember (Walking In The Sand) (stereo) 6.Sally Go Round The Roses (we-actually Dave Daugherty-were finally able to mix the stereo version with the organ overdub that was missing to create the single version in stereo) 7. Lollipop (mono) 8.He's So Fine (I found the stereo backing track for the original single and Dave Daugherty was able to sync it up with the mono vocal track to create a first-time stereo version...this version also runs out to about 2:03 or about 10 second longer than the mono single) 9.Beachwood 4-5789 (this is truly a revelation...Marty Wekser was able to track down the original three track session tape that had never been used before and get it mixed into absolutely beautiful wide stereo. You'll hear things in the song you've never heard before)10.Mr. Lee (mono but from the cleanest master tape ever used)11.Don't Say Nothing Bad About My Baby (mono)12. I Wanna Love Him So Bad (stereo) 13. Dancing In The Street (stereo) 14. Iko-Iko (stereo) 15.Goodnight Baby (stereo)16. Popsicles & Icicles (mono) 17. Whenever A Teenager Cries (first time stereo for a U.S. release) 18.Want Ads (stereo). I think the release date is late April but either Marty or I will post it as soon as we get the official info. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-10 19:37:48 Comments: Apparently my previous post showed up twice because I clicked on the "stereo" button on my computer keyboard. Sorry about that. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-10 20:44:50 Comments: Those who are clamouring for a true stereo version of "Incense And Peppermints" by the Strawberry Alarm Clock (Uni 55018) may as well just turn on the VCR and watch an old Peter Lorre movie. There were words abound that a stereo underdub had been around somewhere, but if it ever existed it's far beyond me. And IF it's an underdub, what ISN'T on it? Cheer up, SAC fans. There's a lot more to the Clock than just I&P alone. |
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Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-10 21:21:44 Comments: Your typical "same 80 songs over and over again" oldies station makes you think that the Strawberry Alarm Clock was a one hit wonder. Not true! Lest we forget the seldom-if-ever-heard "Tomorrow" and "Barefoot In Baltimore." The only time recently I heard (some of) "Tomorrow" was when Dick Bartley used it as local stop set fill a couple of months ago. Consider yourself lucky if the R&RGH affil board op misses the local break or else the station didn't sell the time because you'll hear some nuggets. Jon and Robin & the In Crowd also comes to mind. Remember the yellow vinyl Abnak 45?! And for those of you interested in current oldies stations' power rotations..."Pretty Woman" has dropped out of the #1 overplayed spot on KOOL-FM PHX recently and has been replaced at number uno by "I'm A Believer." You hear it driving to work, you hear it coming home from work...you hear it the next day... |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-10 21:29:05 Comments: To Alan T. Anna was a Motown label, named after Berry Gordy's sister, Anna. Anna was famous for having had a rocky marriage to Marvin Gaye. That's why Berry and Marvin were family. |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 2000-03-11 15:50:57 Comments: I have e-mailed Kearth 101, oldies in Los Angeles many times regarding there same over and over policy. their response is that's what their listeners want per a survey. They don't say were that survey comes from. Bob. |
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Name: Jawn
Dough From: Motown Time: 2000-03-11 19:15:14 Comments: Thanks to Mr. Baird for the great info on the Motown website! He really knows his stuff! but who is this beetle guy? |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-11 19:27:36 Comments: To John Adkins: Hey, nice to find someone who remembers the SAC as much as I do. "Tomorrow" and "Barefoot In Baltimore" are indeed among my favorites (both available in stereo). Universal/Victor in Japan was kind enough to release the entire SAC catalog, i.e. four CDs along with bonus tracks (mono single mixes and previously unreleased tunes), but they've gone out of print in September 1997. I'm just glad I jumped on them when I did. |
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Name: beetlebug Time: 2000-03-11 19:29:14 Comments: Don't worry about it. |
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Name: beetle
guy Time: 2000-03-11 19:35:56 Comments: Jawn Dough: I got my info correct on the Motown issue. We have had enough people trying to start dissention on this board. If you have a problem with anything I post, E-mail me directly offline. Thank You. |
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Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-11 22:08:21 Comments: "Wild Thing" in stereo? I don't know, you tell me. The sound system is in an adjacent room and when I heard the song start I didn't think anything of it. Then on the outro, Bartley (who else?) said "as you've never heard it before" or words to that effect. This was the second song in the 10pm ET hour which is live to all time zones so it won't be on the refeed. Anyone else hear it and care to comment? |
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Name: Billie Jo From: KY Time: 2000-03-11 23:19:15 Comments: I'm trying to come up with the name of the song and artist for the following words: DADDY WON'T YOU TAKE ME BACK TO MUHLENBURG COUNTY, DOWN BY THE GREEN RIVER WHERE PARADISE LAYS. Can anyone help? |
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Name: Billie Jo Time: 2000-03-11 23:22:40 Comments: Left off my domain name on my e-mail address. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-12 01:38:13 Comments: Steve and Marty, that "girl group" cd sounds like a keeper. I'm adding that to my "wants list", along with the Joe Tex disc. You guys keep it up. You are going to put Varese into the number one spot, yet. |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-12 09:53:43 Comments: Well, guys, If you didn't bother to go to the URL I provided, and you didn't listen to that particular Bartley program I mentioned, then you wouldn't know that the honor of the very first Motown # 1 goes to "Please Mr. Postman" not "Shop Around." I'll let all of the *BSN experts* argue these points with Mr. Bartley and those who put together the very informative Motown info at that site. (Thanks J. D. -- tried to email you but got a bounceback.) Since we are splitting hairs on SAC as a one-hit-wonder, here are
all of their songs to chart: |
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Name: beetlebug Time: 2000-03-12 12:47:02 Comments: Certain people who have peen posting here lately are going to succeed in driving our industry friends away with your tempertantrums and snide remarks. They come here to communicate with we music collectors. Take the hostile remaks somewhere else and keep the issue to oldies. |
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Name: G.
TAYLOR From: TORONTO Time: 2000-03-12 14:56:22 Comments: This is my first time posting here.I just recently discovered the BSN site, quite by accident, if you can believe it.Being a serious oldies collector, what can I say? I was floored! This site is a godsend .Not only is it the best (only?) site for collectors with an eye for stereophonic releases,it is THE best site for oldies collectors period!I'm currently wading through the Chartgroup Archives - what a wealth of information! I feel like I've died and gone to heaven.Anyway, the reason for this post: I would like to direct a comment to the industry people who post here. For every bit of negitive fedback you receive, there are many, many more of us out there who deeply appreciate any communications presented here. I, for one, am awestruck to be anywhere this near the industry. If some want to call this "hero-worship", so be it. Be very well, fellow collectors. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-12 15:13:18 Comments: It's great, isn't it? Steve Massie, Tom Daley, Marty Wesker, Tom Moulton, Tom Daley, Dave Daughtry, are all fine, respected industry people. Everyone looks forward to Boppin' Brian's posts. I just hope theykeep coming back in light of the recent nonsense. Mike C. has a fine site. |
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Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-03-12 16:24:11 Comments: Steve Massie: Thanks very much for the run down of the track listing for the Dick Bartley Girl Groups CD. It looks like a stunning package-and high on my list of wants at the moment. I'm extremely curious though-you mentioned that there were quite a few tracks that you tried to license for the set that weren't avaialbe from the majors. Barring the unavaialability of the Phil Spector produced stuff, what were you not able to get for the package? I'd love to know. Thanks. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-03-12 16:30:26 Comments: Beetle, don't forget Bob Irwin, Vic Anesini, and Al Quagleri, all of which have done excellent work for the Sony Legacy series, as well as Irwin's Sundazed label. BTW, you mentioned Tom Daly twice. I'm not all that fond of SDARS. It does the trick, but sometimes a bit too much, leaving the song sounding overmodulated. Just my opinion, though. I do like the material that's come out recently on the Eric label, so I'm not knocking you personally, Tom. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-12 16:34:51 Comments: Steve, assuming "Want Ads" is the song by The Honey Cone, is it the same 45 edit used for the Rhino 'Soul Hits Of The 70's' or is it the mix used for the Eric 45 reissue in stereo? Yes, it is a fantastic lineup, and I'll be sure to pick up a copy. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-12 16:42:39 Comments: Yes, groovin' Garrett, I have many excellent CD's produced by all of these guys. BTW, to anyone, I have a "Want Ads" single edit on a Rhino CD but it sounds like a different mix than either the true 45 or the original LP. Where did the Rhino mix come from? Some time ago, I got the LP mix on the Stax CD and edited it down to the 45 length. It sopunds like the 45 except in stereo. |
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Name: Joel
Goldenberg Time: 2000-03-12 21:20:14 Comments: Re: 45s, my latest obsession. Why did the majors stop producing stereo 45s after about 1962? Did they sell that badly? When stereo 45s came back around 1968, how come companies were so inconsistent betwen mono and stereo? RCA released the Guess Who's "These Eyes" in stereo in late 1968, but Elvis in mono until 1971. Who was the more important? Was it because of radio requirements (Guess Who-FM, Elvis-AM)? The Doors released Touch Me in stereo, but Roadhouse Blues in mono. Motown was also inconsistent, releasing some singles in stereo in '72 (Michael Jackson's Got To Be There) and some in mono (Papa Was A Rolling Stone-as FM-ready a song as you'll ever find). Why? As a result, that song was released in fake stereo on many CDs. Mono LPs stopped in '68, after all. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-12 22:36:50 Comments: Joel: My best guess why companies stopped making stereo 45's is probably money, and the growing numbers of portable, cheap record players. My original Motown 45 of Michael Jackson's "Got To Be There" is in mono, or so narrow it may as well be mono. If yours is stereo, it could have come from different plants using different tapes. ABC/Dunhill also made mono singles in 1972. My copy of the original Four Tops 45, "Keeper Of The Castle" is in mono. The 1971 MGM single, "Double Lovin'" by The Osmonds is mixed for mono. The first stereo single I own is James Brown's "Say It Loud (I'm Black And I'm Proud)" Pt. 1 & 2, on King Records form 1968. |
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Name: Gary Bader From: Victoria, B.C. CANADA Time: 2000-03-12 23:14:39 Comments: This is my second message here, however I check out the site almost every day. Love reading the comments, and I've been an avid stereo collector for years. My fave is Motown, and 60's and 70's soul in particular, but I dig all pop and rock stuff as well from that era. Does Dick Bartley have a web site? I tried a search, but couldn't find anything. The new girl group cd sounds great, just hope they don't stop at one volume. Just wish there were a couple more "rarities" because we got a lot of the Red Bird stuff last year on Taragon. Was hoping for some Pixies Three stuff in stereo, and Diane Ray "Just So Bobby Can See". No major label will ever bother with stuff like that (the Polygram double Girl Group cd basically didn't even know stereo existed). Another track that I have been looking for since 1966 (and it did barely make top 40) is "Tar and Cement" by Verdelle Smith. It's sort of a topical racial song for it's day, and was on Capitol (presumably only in mono). Wish some compilation would find space for that one (in stereo!!!). Anyhow just a couple of thoughts, and hope that Varese and Sundazed keep up the good work. I actually sent Sundazed an e-mail letting them know of their excellent work and product, and got a thank you back. You'd never get that from a major label! |
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Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-12 23:29:15 Comments: To Gary Bader: www.dickbartley.com |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-12 23:45:23 Comments: Hi Gary, I tried to E-mail you but there was no address. Anyway, finally, there's somebody here besides me whom seems to have a real interest about 70's soul. I grew up with all 60's Motown and tons of 70's everything. Would you happen to know if and where I could find Etta James "Jump Into Love" on CD, or know what LP that song came from? All I have is an old crackly Chess 45 from 1976. By that time, Sylvia Robinson and her husband distributed Chess. I don't know if Rhino or Universal controls that particular track. I've tried to put this on CD-R several times with three different types of software and methods with poor results. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-13 00:47:31 Comments: To Gary Bader: Speaking of the Pixies Three, I would love to hear 442 Glenwood Avenue in stereo, if it exists. The catalogues show there was a stereo LP released by the Pixies Three in 64. Can anyone confirm if 442GWA appeared in stereo on that Mercury LP? Mercury was recording many other things in stereo by 64. Now, concerning Just So Bobby Can See (Diane Ray). Talk about an obscure request. It's so obscure, who would possibly remember it? It's so obscure. . . I just happen to have a stereo copy. I obtained a sealed copy of Diane Ray's Mercury stereo LP (The Exciting Years) in 1983. So, I have one of the best copies in existence. It's been played about four times. I recorded that LP to CD-R last summer. Right click on JSBCS below to hear a partial mp3 stereo clip of that song (670K). Contact me via e-mail if interested in getting a copy of this. All but one song on that LP is true stereo. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-13 01:55:51 Comments: Speaking of Etta James, has anyone seen a cd release with her 1968 version of "I Got You Babe"? It would seem to be one of those elusive songs that never gets released on Etta compilations, for whatever reason. Like the Dell's cover of "Dock Of The Bay", which almost made the Top 40. Has anyone bought that Chess box that just got released? I really hate to spend $250.00 on a box set that I have no idea about--stereo content, song selections, sound quality, etc. By the way, welcome the club, you guys who just stumbled in. It's nice to have new collectors and new input, joining us old timers. By the way, does anyone know of another source for the "Jukebox Hits" series? The series has been discontinued, and I need 1961, vol 3. I can't get it from Continental Records, anymore, and it is the only cd that I know of that contains the stereo, single version of Jerry Wallace's "There She Goes". All others are either the wrong speed, a rerecording, or mono. |
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Name: Richard
Otis From: Bellingham, Wa Time: 2000-03-13 13:49:10 Comments: Re: Gary's request for Verdelle Smith's Tar and Cement. It is available in mono on EMI's "One Hit Wonders - The Sixties" 7243 5 20399 2 0. It is a 1999 release. Anyone know of any Pixies Three cd's besides the occasional various artist compilation? |
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Name: Marty Wekser Website: marty@source-q.com From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-13 16:16:38 Comments: Re: WANT ADS - Honey Cone. It is a bright sounding stereo mix with a lot of punch. I'm sure you'll like the way it was mastered. (If not, I might have to start checking out the want ads!) |
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Name: Gary
Bader From: Victoria, B.C., CANADA Time: 2000-03-13 16:42:24 Comments: Hey, thanks to Beetlefan. I'll check the Etta James out, but I think the answer is no. Thanks to terryoregon for the Diane Ray--haven't heard that since 1964. It was a big hit in Calgary, back then, and I even have some old charts with it on. And to Richard Otis regarding Verdelle Smith, that's a big help. Thanks. Hopefully I will have some new input, and I have the Chess box set. It's mostly the same old (with the emphasis on old) stuff, a lot of very early blues. The later sixties stuff is mostly in stereo, of course "Pushover" be Etta James is mono. If anybody wants more specific info, I have provided my E-Mail address. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-13 18:25:06 Comments: Thanks Marty, This WANT ADS sounds like the same tape Rhino used. But i'm still going to buy this CD for the great tracks and new stereo mixes. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-03-13 20:08:59 Comments: Anyway... Buddy Holly - is any one compilation better sounding than others? Specifically I'm thinking of "From The Original Master Tapes" (OOP), "Collection" (2CDs), and "Greatest Hits". "Collection" looks like the set to get, but does "Greatest Hits" (released a few years later) have upgraded sound? Or are they all pretty good? |
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Name: Mike
Parros From: Hanson, MA Time: 2000-03-13 21:17:26 Comments: Subjectively speaking, I think that the recently remastered Buddy Holly Greatest Hits has a little more "punch" and sounds a little cleaner (but marginally in both cases) than the oop "From The Master Tapes" disc. I once had both versions but decided to keep the "From The Master Tapes" version because I liked the song selection better and for the "50's looking" picture of Buddy Holly on the cover. BTW...neither BMG nor Columbia House list the "From The Master Tapes" disc. The clubs are sometimes good sources for discs that are no longer in the retail pipeline. |
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Name: Gary
Bader From: Victoria, B.C., CANADA Time: 2000-03-13 23:46:00 Comments: There has been a bit of information posted here about the Millennium Master series from Universal, with mixed reviews. Some are great, some not so hot. I have found that generally the Motown ones are top notch (with the odd exception), with the best sounding stereo tapes, mostly very clean, with excellent fidelity. The Marvin Gaye vol. 1 is about perfect, all are clean and clear. The Temptations volume 1 is also very clean. Just wish they would have used the longer stereo version of "MY GIRL" that appeared on the "Cooley High" soundtrack instead of the usual shortened stereo version. Martha and Vandellas has been discussed elsewhere. The Mary Wells is a disappointment. Almost all of the tapes of the early Smokey productions are VERY noisy, some all the way through the songs. I've never found that on any of the other stereo releases of her stuff, so I don't know why these tapes were so rough. "BYE BYE BABY" is an alternate version, but is stereo. Diana Ross and Supremes is pretty good. "I HEAR A SYMPHONY" is an alternate vocal take (narrow stereo) that ONLY appeared on the ORIGINAL 1966 "I HEAR A SYMPHONY" vinyl album (not the reissues). "COME SEE ABOUT ME" is the worst sounding track, with not much punch. There are other better sounding versions of that one. "YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE" sounds good, but has a noisy intro on the bass. The real rarity here is "SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER" which is the original single vocal version in stereo. The odd thing is that it starts off with a couple of seconds of tambourine (never before heard)and then the tambourine gets lost, and is not very loud throughout the rest of the song (unlike the single or usual stereo versions). It's always neat to get the odd rarity like that. The Four Tops collection is excellent. My only complaint is, even though they do a great cover of "IF I WERE A CARPENTER" (it does sound great), how could they not include one of my all time favorites "IT'S THE SAME OLD SONG"??? Now, if only they would do a Marvelettes one, with "I'LL KEEP HOLDING ON" in stereo, and some clean sounding tracks. Stereo is definitely a priority with the Motown releases anyhow. I'm glad Rhino aren't in charge of them! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-13 23:47:39 Comments: I was just thinking about the Rolling Stones Singles Collection and wondered if we'll ever see a good, solid package of their MONO singles. |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-03-14 01:02:13 Comments: I have a question for the working engineers... I'm very interested in your approach to remixing or mastering a stereo track which was originally recorded with a mono mix in mind, or was never really intended for stereo release. It seems to me that often a mix which approximates the feel of the mono record will be way out of balance in the stereo spectrum (Left channel much hotter than the right, for example). However, if you mix for stereo balance, the lead vocals or backgrounds will be buried or way too loud. I'm generalizing here, and trying to stay away from tech babble, but I am curious whether you feel it is your duty to preserve the original mix no matter how "bad" or to make "right" what was originally done "wrong". |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-14 01:46:02 Comments: A personal thanks to those who helped me locate the "Jukebox Hits, 1961, vol 3" cd. I really appreciate it. |
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Name: S.
Baird From: B. R. Time: 2000-03-14 09:57:57 Comments: Hey Luke, I love that Buddy Holly from the Original Masters, but truth be told, the gold MCA CD (12132) is a stunner. The CD is also OOP, but I recently (about 3 months ago) bought a copy from videoarena.com on the internet. I think it was $24.04 or something like that. Content is similar on the 2 CDs -- there are 4 songs on the gold CD that are not on FTOMT, and 3 on the earlier CD that aren't on the gold. The stand-out on the original that, IMHO, makes it worth looking for is True Love Ways w/the studio talk. To Gary: again, IMHO, the Millennium collection doesn't really offer much to the serious collector. I bought 2 of them when they first came out, and was disappointed to find that the sound just wasn't much of an improvement over what I already had. Just the other week, I bought 2 more because Circuit City was having a sale -- the Mary Wells & Bo Diddley. I wanted the Diddley for "You Can't Judge A Book" because it was not on my early MCA 2-fer. Well, chalk up 2 more disappointments. I spent some time at the home of a recording engineer who lives in New Orleans over the weekend. I learned a lot from him about the way that many (not all, so don't chide me with arguments, please) of the current reissues are mastered. In a nutshell, he said that the reason that those we buy hoping to get truer sound are disappointing is because the companies want the stuff to sound louder on the radio. OK, that's in keeping with what many here say about how they want the reissues they buy to sound, but a departure from the way the original master sounds. He demonstrated this to me by showing me the differences one could see using the graphics displayed in Pro Tools (his mastering software) on a finished product compared to those of the digital master tape. Interesting! |
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Name: Richard
Moritz Time: 2000-03-14 10:42:50 Comments: Gary Bader mentions the stereo "Bye bye Baby" on the Mary Wells Millenium collection. This sounds like it could be the track that appeared on the vinyl copies of the old "Mary Wells' greatest hits" lp from Motown. That stereo version had Mary's vocal on one channel and the instrumental track on the other. It seemed like Mary's vocal take of the mono but lacked the vocal backing of the Rayber voices and had the piano mixed way up front. This would be its first CD appearance, to my knowledge, as all of the reissues including the CD version of the 'greatest hits' lp used the mono take with backing voices. This early Motown 'stereo' (actually, it's more 2 track vocal/backing track) always seemed to indicate that Motown did record and mix in some sort of multi-track , even in the early days and that session tapes must exist somewhere. As for the "I hear a symphony" mono/stereo or narrow stereo: That same-named lp was a mess for stereo lovers. Many tracks were in mono only, including "I hear a symphony" and a terrible hum was evident throughout most of it. We suspected (at the time, in 1966,) much had been recorded in LA, not Detroit. These problems were only emphasized on the Cd re-issue. I had the vinyl, mono lp and swear that the version of "I hear symphony" was the same take as the 45 and the stereo version that appeared on "Diana Ross and the Supremes greatest hits" double lp from 1967 (and its cd re-issue) and one of the 16 big hits packages on both vinyl and cd. Now the situation in Canada, of course, could have been different... Thanks for the info, Gary! We now know what to buy... |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-14 12:59:54 Comments: Richard Moritz, Just thought you may be interseted. I don't know where the hum originated, but Motown used to send some of their basic tracks to New York for sweetening (strings). I don't know why it's so hard to get a good stereo copy of "I Hear A Symphony" on CD because I'm told that one appears on their Greatest Hits Vol 1 CD, probably deleted. This is a Motown song I prefer in stereo only. There are lots of other Motown songs with hum. For a time, Motown stereo mixes were done in a house two doors down from the original Hitsville in Detroit. A doctor who lived next door would not sell his house to Berry Gordy so Berry actually ran cables down the alley, past the doc's house and into the next to connect the multitrack tape machines in the main studio to a board, stereo mixdown deck, and monitors in the other house! No joke! Mixing in winter was hell! Steve Baird, I know what you are talking about. The loudness game is ridiculous! I can do it in Cool Edit Pro as well, but choose to only use the tool judiciously when needed or if a client wants jacked up levels. I will also use a bit of compression if needed, but usually, I prefer the natural sound of the recording. |
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Name: Richard
Moritz Time: 2000-03-14 14:23:15 Comments: I hate to write to the board unless it concerns true stereo matters, but I must address this. Between c.1962 (Eddie Holland's "Jamie") and c.1970 (Temptations' "just my imagination") sessions at Motown recorded in Detroit with strings were with members of the string section of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. Gordon Staples, the symphony's concert master at that time was leader/contractor/string arranger for those sessions. Players included other "first chair" musicians, not just the guys who "sat in the back." The symphony string players also masqueraded at the San Remo Golden Strings for Ric-Tic (Hungry for Love) and played with garage bands like the Tidal Waves (I don't need love) and non-Motown groups like the Shades of Blue (later non-hit sessions for Impact records). Pre-62, post 70 Motown recordings w/strings have been reputed to have had strings added in Chicago,New Yor k and elsewhere; sessions were held in L.A. (per bassist Carol Kaye's website) and such recordings as Brenda Holloway's "Ev'ry little bit hurts" were done in L.A. with strings added there or elsewhere than Detroit. (Staples had a Strad violin and it did have a particular timbre to it - listen to "I can't help myself" by the 4 tops - that repeated sting riff was his contribution.) "I hear a symphony" was written as an inside "Motown" joke. Most Detroiters didn't know the symphony musicians played on Motown records until after this single came out. Stereo content redeemer: "Just my imagination" was one of the first and few Motown label singles to use divided strings i.e. strings spread across both stereo channels, rather than anchored to one channel side. Divided strings were rarely used in early charted artists type of pop/rock. Other examples include "Cindy's birthday" by Johnny Crawford, a few non-hit Roy Orbison album tracks ("Crying" lp on Monument) , and those overdubbed Eddie Cochran Liberty tracks like "Hallelujah, I just love her so" |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-14 14:43:39 Comments: I can't get into all the specifics as to tracks that were requested for the Girl Groups CD but I can point out a couple things. First of all, we had the Pixies Three on our list (by the way, 442 Glenwood Ave. has never been issued in stereo), the Secrets, the Sweet Inspirations, and others. But all were turned down for various reasons.One of the problems with most of the major labels is that if they don't do the manufacturing and licensing for you they limit you as to how many of their tracks can be used on any one "various artist" CD. And basically you can't get any tracks out of EMI/Capitol without a very high guarantee and then having them do the manufacturing.I can assure you that, because of "favored nations" clauses, it's getting next to impossible to license anything from 75% of the major labels.And just recently another major label that has been "reasonable" about licensing tracks to the independents in the past has changed their policy making it virtually impossible to license anything from them and still hope to make money on a package. So the smaller reissue labels are going to have to be even more creative in what they're going to be able to reissue which means that if you're going to license something from them it's going to have to be a "blockbuster" track that you know is really going to help sell the CD. Which all means we're going to see less and less of those "gems" that we collectors really want to have on CD. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: Gasprice Gougerville, So Cal Time: 2000-03-14 15:12:08 Comments: Wow ! Cool MOTOWN tidbits ! Onlyest wish: folks would cite sources for their anecdotes/info/etc... Is there one really good, accurate, detailed book on Motown ? Someone really needs to compile a comprehensive reference detailing alla the stuff like the past few posts touch on. (Or, maybe someone has ..?) Have older trade paperback one by jokey LA writer..(Don Charles, if I remember correctly) good discography... doesn't bring us into "CD age" tho. Yikes ! Been searching for "clean, wide" (there's a new one for yas..) Marvelettes "Beechwood..." ever since hearing it that way on an LA radio show years back.... Cool & crazy !! Hope Varese Vintage does several "Girl.." volumes ! Now, if we could only get the same treatment for "Leaving Here', "Fingertips", "Devil in a Blue Dress", etc. etc., etc. "There She Goes" on "Jukebox Hits '61, Vol. 3" sounds slightly sped up (vs. other copy I have of it, on Collectables 5080) Gee, it's nice to be "wanted" (any good Brenda Lee reissues out lately ?!) , even if it is by someone others consider a "bug"...(see Mr. Fan's tip o' the hat to yours truly a few days back... Top o the mornin' to you Mr. Insect !.. er, afternoon, maybe, by the time I finish typin'..) Shakers "Break It All" * (Yeah, I'm playin' catch up !) is on CD. (Uruguayan tight-suit wearing Mop-Top Beat-group wannabes) CD Reissue of '60s Audio Fidelity LP was in a catalog/mailing I recently got, but they sold out quick ... * Not to be confused with Breakers "Over The Falls"(Himilayan Crop-Top Baggies-wearing Surf-combo wannabes, or Rakers "Work All Fall", or Lakers "Take A Fall", or Bakers "Make It ... alright, that'll do..) ( Anyways, it's out there.. dunno if it's stereo like my '80s LP ri....) Might add a few to the list of "GOOD GUYS" as cited here in several posts....(It's Wekser, not "Wesker", Daly, not "Daley").... How about "Little Walter" DeVenne, Donn Fileti, Steve Hoffman, Eliot Goshman, Bob Hyde, Richard Weize, Tom Moulton, Bob Jones......? As usual, a dearth of the fairer sex.... Altho I recall one gal that did some things for MCA...Diana Haig. Well, back to adding to my never - ending "want list"... let's see, stereo "Stardust" (one of the few nice things about "GoodFellas" !) ... Lovin' Spoonful.... Shirelles... BYE! |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 2000-03-14 17:16:28 Comments: Boppin' Brian strikes again! Los Fabulous Shakers get me moving, especially their hilarious "Ticket to Ride" in Espanaol... The liner notes on the Audio Fidelity LP will have you rolling around even more - I wonder if they're on the CD reissue? Try Midnight Records for this one - it was on their list awhile back, or our good friends at Discollector might be able to help. |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-14 17:49:19 Comments: Gary in Canada....WHAT A GREAT PAIR OF EARS YOU HAVE! After reading your BSN posting, I immediately compared the "20th Century" track against the fake stereo versions of "I Hear a Symphony" that I had on Motown's original "Where Did Our Love Go"/"I Hear a Symphony" two-fer (MCDO 8005) and on my Volume 1 of "Diana Ross and the Supremes 25th Anniversary" disc (MCDO 6193). For years, I wondered why "Symphony" was "missing" in stereo and now I know that a stereo version of the original hit take was never released. To A-B the stereo take was fun, by the way. A few things I never heard before included Diana Ross' noticeable "hesitation" at 1:53 and her later "harmonizing" on the fadeout of the alternate stereo version. I think it also has a better and much more revealing instrumental mix, too. So Gary, share more of your revelations anytime. You made my day! |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 19:30:37 Comments: The most recent Brenda Lee reissue that I know of is the new Millennium Collection, which is for the most part redundant if you have either "Brenda Lee Story" and/or "Anthology." |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-03-14 19:56:11 Comments: Eh...not that I really care that much, but is there more than one stereo version of "I Hear A Symphony"? I just pulled out the "Greatest Hits" 2 LP set (C 1967), and it's in wide stereo on there. It sounded (from posts here) like the version on the new collection was narrow stereo. Those are different from the mono version? Common, beetle, you should know these things! |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: Shake N Quake N Bake, Ca. Time: 2000-03-14 20:24:44 Comments: Hey, C & W fans (oops - hope this ain't a spanner in the works !!) - how about what's the best way to find out (timing ? a slight gasp audible as someone walks in as Dolly inhales??) which is the ORIGINAL "I Will Always Love You" by DOLLY PARTON ??? Bradley ?? I was eyeballin' (nice 'do, Doll) a U.K. BMG/Camden reissue "Best of" (#476802-2) & "Here I Come Again" (BMG 10006), but ain't hip to the ways of them hill-folk, re & re-re recording stuff ev'ry dad-burned time they turn around..... Someone had mentioned Youngbloods here a while ago, too. Anyone have their EDSEL (UK) "Best of" (# 561) ??? Say SOUL set : What's the deal on "EAGLE" label ("The Masters" colections from
Bobby Womack (# 44), Joe Tex (#70), Albert King (# 74), etc.) ???? Wow, should I really close on such a wimpy note... oh, well, here
goes.. What's the best Jimmie (Non-"Singing Brakeman") Rodgers CD compilation ?? Severral EMI
imports are available of Roulette hits..... WOW ! We really need your updated BOOK , Mr. C. ! |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 21:05:52 Comments: Boppin' Brian, the original "I Will Always Love You" can be found on "The Essential Dolly Parton Vol. 2." "Essential Dolly Parton Vol. 1" does focus on her "9 to 5" and "Islands In The Stream" era. Rhino does have a hits collection on the non "Singing Brakeman" Jimmie Rodgers which ranges from the Roulette hits to "Child of Clay." |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 21:09:02 Comments: Speaking of the "Singing Brakeman" Jimmie Rodgers, there is a series on Rounder and a Bear Family box with his complete catalog, but for casual fans, collections such as "The Essential Jimmie Rodgers" on RCA, "Train Whistle Blues" on Koch, "Memorial Album" on Collectables, collections on ASV and Empress, etc. are nice to have. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-03-14 21:12:48 Comments: Say...does anyone know the history of the Brunswick label? I know in the US was (at least in the '50s) part of US Decca (later to become MCA), as some of Buddy Holly's stuff came out on there. Interesting though that labels from the era don't mention Decca at all, just "Brunswick Radio Corp". And in the UK - I know the Who's first LP came out in Brunswick in the UK, which would make sense, as they were signed to Decca in the US, but somebody told me that Brunswick in the UK was actually owned by *UK Decca*, and that it was simply an outlet for US Decca releases. And we all know US Decca and UK Decca were different companies (although they are both owned by Universal today). Anyone know? What a mess... |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 21:23:31 Comments: Brian, one more note. She also re-recorded "I Will Always Love You" in 1982 and that version can be found on "The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas," "Greatest Hits," "Essential Dolly Parton Vol. 1," and other albums and as duet with Vince Gill in 1995 on Vince's "Souvenirs" CD on MCA and on Dolly's "I Will Always Love You and Other Hits" on Columbia. The original was released in 1974. The 1974 and 1982 versions both went to #1 on the country charts. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: So Ca. Time: 2000-03-14 21:40:15 Comments: Wow ! You go Brad - man !! Now I know where to go for any other C & W quiz - downs !!! Thanks mucho. I suppose there are other forums for this type of "dialogue" (And hopefully it's O.K. if all posts don't mention S T E R E O ...), but "I can't help it", (OK, Brad, now you GO wit da Hank Williams - ography...!... & don't forget to tell us where to get the best-sounding Johnny Tillotson's version....) I just keep comin' back to "BSN Chat" as my handy - dandy one - stop cure - all !! O.K., did it all get ironed out which is/are the best DONOVAN collections, as far as MOST stereo goes ?? Anyone have " Mellow" .... it's a 1997 2 CD on Recall/Snapper (UK)158 ? ? |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 21:59:47 Comments: Brian, Varese's Best of Johnny Tillotson CD does contain "I Can't Help It (If I'm Still In Love With You)." |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 22:04:46 Comments: Brian: Many people on ICE and BSN do already know that I do have great knowledge in and listen to country music a lot and even have a huge chunk of my collection devoted to country music, past and present. You can check out my music collection databases by clicking on the URL in my post, click on the word music, click on "My Collection" and you have access right there. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-14 22:43:27 Comments: Actually, I don't mind any of you asking questions about country music as lots of country hits are hard to find on CD no matter if they are mono, stereo or rechanneled and lots of even the biggest hits of country music have never even been issued on CD. The fact that they sell more Garth Brooks than Marty Robbins does contribute part of the story about this. Lots of country songs can only be found on CD in compilations with poor quality or in the form of re-recordings or on compilations that mix re-recordings and originals, including IOU and Stand Beside Me, both by Jimmy Dean, yet the duet by Jimmy and Dottie West entitled "Slowly" can be found on "Essential Dottie West" and that's the only RCA recording that Jimmy has contributed to recording available on CD. Luckily, Minnie Pearl is well represented on CD by the "Starday Years" boxed set on Starday/Gusto and other compilations, also there are several different Red Sovine collections that Gusto has released but the more "definitive" collection is the "Best Of Red Sovine: 20 Greatest Hits" CD and Hank Williams and Patsy Cline are also well represented on CD, yet other artists such as Marty Robbins are poorly represented on CD. |
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Name: Barry
Margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 2000-03-14 23:12:25 Comments: Luke: Brunswick was formed by the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company of Dubuque, Iowa, which was formed as a piano manufacter in 1845! They started record production in 1916. In April 1930, due to the depression, the company sold its record division to Warner Bros. Warners sold the label to the American Record Corporation in December, 1931, who in turn was purchased by CBS in 1939. They dropped the Brunswick logo instead moving those good selling titles over to Columbia, their flagship label (from 1939-on). Somehow, the Brunswick name and all of the pre-1931 titles got sold to Decca sometime in the early 1940's. Decca used the Brunswick label off and on, and by the mid-1950's it had become one of Decca's three main labels (the others being Decca and Coral). Sometime in the late 1960's MCA (the company that bought Decca) sold off the Brunswick trademark to a bunch of Jackie Wilson's people (most likely augmented by some mob action) and kept it going as a Chicago-based soul label. After Brunswick's collapse, CBS bought up the Brunswick soul masters....hope this helps! Barry |
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Name: David
Bonacci Referred by: From a Friend From: Omaha,Ne.68107-2024 Time: 2000-03-14 23:14:41 Comments: As of 3-14-00,I haven't received issue 54 of the newsletter.Please e-mail me if there has been a delay with this issue.Otherwise I'd appreciate a copy of it.It's one of the few things I look forward to receiving. Thanks, Dave Bonacci 2008 I Street |
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Name: Barry
Margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 2000-03-14 23:16:16 Comments: Oh...and by the way, UK Brunswick was set up by UK Decca SOLELY as a label for American Decca talent. British bands like The Who and David John And The Mood, etc. were on UK Brunswick because their contacts were signed by US Decca. By that, I mean The Who, for example were NOT signed by UK Decca...they were signed by US Decca and their records were therefore put on UK Brunswick...as if they were an American act!!! |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-15 02:24:07 Comments: Boppin' Brian, according to Pat Downey's "Top 40 Music On CD" and my own ears, the version of "There She Goes" on the Collectables 5080 cd is a rerecording. Unfortunately, the version of the same song on "Jukebox Hits, 1961, Vol 3" may in fact be a speeded up version of the hit single, since several of Jerry Wallace's hits were released that way by Curb Records. It is so frustrating! Why can't these people get their act together? The latest Collectables cd of Jerry Wallace's Greatest Hits would be a joke, except that it isn't funny. I hated what you said, Steve, about licensing various artists cds from the "majors". Maybe we need to find another term for the "majors". Their licensing requirements would lead me to call them something else, which I won't repeat here. All of this makes me even more appreciative of what we collectors do finally see released. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-15 03:32:59 Comments: Richard M.: I may have read that bit about Motown sending the tapes to N.Y. in Nelson George's book, "Where Did Our Love Go?". I could be wrong. Anyway, thanks for all the info! Gary Bader: Good work! I have a stereo mix of "Symphony" on an old LP comp and never thought to compare it to the mono single. I also plan to pick up that Millenium CD. Luke: I've been slipping badly on my knowledge. Keep the info coming guys! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-15 06:34:40 Comments: Don't laugh, but I just discovered this: "Proud Mary" by CCR is really is a nice stereo mix. I was playing around with the editing software and loaded up the track from the "Chronicles" CD. I widened up the very narrow stereo and got John Fogerty's vocal panned center-left, backing vocals hard right, lead guitar hard right, and rhythm guitar and drums centered. The track is very noisy, though. I also fooled around with "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones on the more common ABKO "Hot Rocks" CD, and is is definately, 100% MONO. Hey, I just found out. I picked up a very nice sounding import of Jackie Wilson by Edsel Records. A two-fer of the "Whispers" and "Higher And Higher" albums on this British import. It has nice, clean stereo, and the music ain't half bad! I remember the "Whispers" LP from when I was a kid. |
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Name: S.
Baird From: B. R. Time: 2000-03-15 10:15:36 Comments: To boppin’ b et al interested in The Bachelors -- Ah yes, an almost impossible to find set of pop hits from the Sixties. Below are the only 3 Bachelors collections I have been able to find. Of these, only *World Of* MIGHT still be available (Try CDWorld.com), but no collection is as complete as Charmaine. The only Billboard 100 tune it is missing is “Can I Trust You” while the others as you can see from the listings below, are missing CITM & LMWAYH. Sound quality on all 3 is amazingly similar, and all 3 are imports. Only the chart hits are listed; each CD has about 18 titles.
WORLD OF THE BACHELORS: Spectrum 552017
GOLDEN HITS & PRECIOUS MEMORIES: Deram (UK) 844 486
CHARMAINE: WiseBuy 869362 |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-15 11:04:51 Comments: Re: The Bachelors.....One of my favorite groups. The ONLY Cd set you need is the 2Cd Import from EMI. It has 54 tracks, all the singles, hits or not, B sides, and select LP tracks. The sound quality is fabulous. Most tracks are stereo, there are a few that are not. But EMI did a great job in finding first generation masters for this set. Can I Trust You is included. And its not impossible to find either, go right to collectors choice or Discollector. I also was told that Amazon has it, and for a good price, 22.99 or so. I recommend this set VERY highly. It was so nice to hear "Love Me With All Your Heart" and "No Arms Can Ever Hold You" in clear, beautiful stereo. Hope this helps!! Mikey |
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Name: Mikey babe Time: 2000-03-15 11:14:24 Comments: Can someone post the URL for the ICE chat board? thanks! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-15 13:27:31 Comments: http://www.icemagazine.com |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-15 13:53:41 Comments: For Johnny Tillotson fans, the ACE CD has 30 songs with the only one missing that i wanted was "pledging my love", which is on American Dreams by LaserLight. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-03-15 17:08:02 Comments: Re: Stones stereo. Yea, the ABKCO CDs for the most part use the mono mixes (unfortunately), but Play With Fire on the US Hot Rocks *is* stereo, just *VERY* narrow. Strange. Also, the US "Now!" CD has Heart Of Stone, What A Shame, and Down The Road Apeice all in true (wide) stereo. That's about it for early stuff in stereo in the US - although I Can't Be Satisfied *might* be in stereo on the More Hot Rocks disc. It is in stereo on tape...:-0 |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-15 17:49:45 Comments: Staying on the subject of The Bachelors, were the single and LP versions of "I Believe" different recordings, different mixes, or different edits? I think Mike C. once noted that a previous hits CD on the group specifically included the "45 version" in mono. Can't remember which one, either. Any informed believers out there? |
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Name: Martin T. Boratyn From: California Time: 2000-03-15 21:16:44 Comments: For a previous posting by a name that escapes me : I have listened to my original Chancellor stereo single of "Two Fools" by Frankie Avalon and can assure everyone that that song is the same version that appears on the Varese Vintage cd 'Best of' Frankie Avalon. The timing difference of four to six seconds is the result of "dead air" at the close of the cd track. The calypso version referred to in the posting was likely a different arrangerment of the same song that appeared on a subsequent Chancellor album. By the way, for any Avalon fan the Varese disc is a must since the source tapes used in the remastering process were pristine. On another subject, I would like to hear from anyone on why the first three hits of Bill Deal and the Rhondells have never appeared in stereo? It is baffling to met to hear "May I", "What Kind of Fool Do You Think I Am", and "I've Been Hurt" in MONO. For criss sake we're talking 1969 here!!!!!!!! I thought Stax was slow in stereo recording but this is ridiculous. Any conjecture as to where are the likely multi-tracks? Comments are welcomed. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-15 22:14:06 Comments: To Ken Garland: I've got both the ACE and Varese CD's of Johnny Tillotson. I used to think "Poetry In Motion" on the ACE CD was perfectly acceptable . . . .until I heard the Varese version. The Varese version is much better (from the master tapes). Also, Varese has the stereo version of Earth Angel, ACE doesn't. On the other hand, the ACE has more songs. Missing from both are the stereo versions of Princess, Princess, and Cutie Pie (that do exist). |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups Time: 2000-03-15 23:31:28 Comments: Re The Bachelors: First of all, a slight correction to Mikey's earlier post... The Decca Years 1962-1972 2-CD set is on the UK Decca label, through Universal, not EMI. (And several online music sites have it for less than $25--don't pay more!) "I Believe" is mono on this set. The previous CD that stated "[Mono] Single Version" for that track was Golden Hits and Precious Memories (Deram UK) from 1995. I compared the mono version with the one on the U.S. stereo Presenting: The Bachelors LP: They both play to exactly the same length, and both sound like the same recording; the drums are mixed up a bit more on the mono version, but otherwise I don't hear any particular difference. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-16 01:40:46 Comments: terryoregon, besides "Princess, Princess" and "Cutie Pie", we are also missing the stereo version of "Out Of My Mind", which I dearly love. It seems so strange to me that after all the Johnny Tillotson releases, from various labels, that have appeared in the last few years, there are still so many unreleased versions of his hits. |
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Name: Richard
Otis From: Bellingham, Wash Time: 2000-03-16 02:38:35 Comments: Re: Martin's contention that his "stereo" 45 version of Frankie Avalon's "Two Fools" being the same as on the various Avalon cd compilations. You are probably right if you are using a "stereo" 45 (which I didn't know existed) because mine is a "mono" 45. I have a suspicion that they use a vastly different version for all stereo releases. I just re-checked my mono version and am quite satisfied that they are either different recordings or ENTIRELY different mixes. Martin: You send me your address and I will be glad to send you a tape of my 45 for your comparison. |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 2000-03-16 03:26:31 Comments: Does anyone know if One Boy by Joanie Somers, and Too Young To Go Steady by Connie Stevens are available on any US cd;s? My Ace cd of Johnny Tilliston's Poetry in Motion is an Alternate take on his greatest hits. Have they corrected this error on recent releases? Bob. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-16 03:59:03 Comments: Ok. I have the Diana Ross & The Supremes Millenium collection playing now. Aside from the differences, these are the closest i've ever heard some of the stereo sounding like the mono hits. It sounds as if a layer of reverb has been stripped from many of the tracks. I like! Why can't more Motown stereo sound like this? It might turn me into a complete Motown stereo convert. :-) Maybe these companies have just been doing a lousy job of mastering the STEREO tracks to CD. Hmmmm...maybe it's just the converters. Oh well... Regarding "I Hear A Symphony", this is not the hit mix. I don't feel like pulling out the stereo mix I have on an old LP, but I think I remember the hit mix in stereo being on there. "Love Child" still doesn't have the percussive attack of the mono single. "Someday We'll Be Together"...WOW!!! But it still ain't the single mix. It sounds like a raw or scratch mix. The tambourine is not prominant throughout, but the piano is definately there! Which Motown Millenium do y'all recommend next? |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-03-16 09:05:34 Comments: To Martin T. Boratyn: The Bill Deal and the Rhondells' hits that were released on the Heritage label were produced by and are controlled by Frank Guida (LeGrand). None of Bill Deal's hits have ever been mixed to stereo of which I am aware, although multitracks of those hits may exist. |
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Name: David R.
Modny Time: 2000-03-16 11:55:59 Comments: beetlefan: Try Marvin Gaye (Vol. 1). |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-03-16 12:53:52 Comments: Re:The Bachelors......I agree with Randy, the mono and stereo versions of "I Believe" are one and the same. BTW.....a great track for this set is "Can I Trust You". Surely a lost classic from the '60s. The Lettermen should have covered it, I think they would have had a top 20 hit with this song. Mikey |
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Name: Richard
Otis From: Bellingham, Wash Time: 2000-03-16 13:06:48 Comments: Rock Classics - their ad is in Goldmine - is featuring a Connie Stevens best of but am not sure if it is bootleg. I have a nice sounding boot of her best with a stereo "Too Young To Go Steady" on Globe label (Probably copy of her Japanese best of). Rock Classics also has a new Fabian 2-on-1 of his two lp's. Again, it might be a boot. Most of his 2nd lp is available in nice sounding stereo from See For Miles on their EP Collection series. My Ace Tillotson best of (with 30 songs) supposedly has the hit version along with the alternate "take 2". Maybe I should go back and relisten. |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: L.A. Time: 2000-03-16 14:10:23 Comments: I can't upgrade Tillotson or any other stuff since Mike won't put out the book or the newsletter to guide and inform me that something exist that is better. What ever happen to the note that we had that the next newsletter was coming 3 weeks after #53? That was in Oct i think. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-16 19:15:18 Comments: Re: Bob Olivia: Concerning One Boy (Joanie Sommers). Her reissues have always been hit and miss. Amazon.com shows the "Positively The Most" CD as out of print, which means there may be no Joanie Sommers CD's currently available in the states. One Boy is not on that CD anyway. If you want One Boy, you will have to go to import. I purchased a Japanese import CD of Joanie's 1962 "Johnny Get Angry" LP last summer (with bonus tracks). I got this through Rockhouse (www.musicmailexpress.com). Several of the songs are in flawless true stereo, including One Boy. The front of the CD states "From The Original Master Tapes". I just checked Rockhouse, it still shows available. Japan seems to like Joanie Sommers. They reissued her "Johnny Get Angry" LP on vinyl in the early eighties. I have that too. I've always loved the front of that album. It's a picture of Joanie sitting in front of a recording studio mike. Oh, if you search Rockhouse, they have this CD listed as "Joanie Sommers - From Original Masters/Japan". Rockhouse has a pretty good reputation. They've given me several import CD's no one else could get. |
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Name: Gary
Bader From: Victoria, B.C., CANADA Time: 2000-03-16 23:35:19 Comments: When I offered my comments on the Motown Millennium Masters series, I forgot to mention something about the Four Tops package. It has the absolute cleanest version of "I Can't Help Myself" I have ever heard. Most interesting of all however, is on "BERNADETTE". On all copies of this song in stereo, there are several clicks, presumably tape splices. The version on this CD is the same as always mix, but without any of the clicks and pops. Very clean. Check it out. Highly recommended! |
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Name: John
Sellards From: Beckley, WV Time: 2000-03-17 09:53:41 Comments: Polygram has seemed to have some sort of decent noise removal all along, and they must use it here and there with no flag-waving - witness the excellent Dennis Drake CDs from many years ago, all very clean except when it was obvious that the master he had was generations away from the original. Anybody know what they use? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-17 12:56:51 Comments: Sometimes, when you get a good first generation, un-EQ'd tape that was well recorded and played back properly, you don't always get the noise. Anytime you attempt to remove noise, you risk removing some music or ambiance along with it. But some of these programs to reduce noise are getting better everyday. As much as I like clean sound, I would rather have a bit of noise to preserve the music. I have experimented with cleaning up very noisy sources with varying results, but none of the ones i've cleaned sound just like the original because *something* got removed. |
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Name: S.
Baird From: B. R. LA Time: 2000-03-17 13:01:56 Comments: Thanks to those who brought me up to date on the Bachelors. After I got Charmaine (which I have just found out is still in print), I just figured that I would have to do without the one hit that it didn't have. It will be interesting to hear if this one sounds any better than the others (which are all very good). But here's the great news for all of you interested in buying the Decca Years CD that others have written about. It's available thru massmusic.com for a mere $16.95! But that's not all. If you go to their site you will find that any single order placed for a total of $50 or more before 3/31/00 is eligible to receive a $20 mail-in rebate.Sooo, since I had been draging my feet on several items I wanted, I bought all 4 of the latest Eric releases and Marty's new Billy Ward & the Dominoes to take me over the specified total. I guess you could say that this was like getting the Bachelors for free. |
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Name: S.
Baird From: B. R., LA Time: 2000-03-17 13:18:27 Comments: beetle, thanks for echoing what I said over a month ago about noise reduction. I compared it to watching TV with a strip of gauze in front of your screen. Someone replied that noise reduction was more like adjusting your set for totally accurate color. The fact is that anything that is done to alter the sound of the original master (like reducing noise) is more like pulling a tooth. It is a subtraction that takes with it something of value -- like chewing a good steak. That is to say, once it's gone, it's gone & there's nothing anyone can do to retrieve it. I know that very few of those who come here are as ardent as I am about totally natural sound, so I apologize to those of you who who cannot justify spending tens of thousands of dollars on audio equipment. One other thing while I'm on the subject: someone else brought up the notion that listening on headphones will give you a truer rendition of the sound. That isn't exactly true either. Most quality speakers are designed so that they can recreate aspects of the sound on your source material that headphones are incapable of doing -- spatiality for one thing (and the ambiance of the original recording location you mentioned, beetle, for another). I think we tend to forget the personal aspects of listening to music, and to coming to an appreciation of what is possible in the recording studio. That is why, IMHO, Bill K, it is OK if someone rates the sound of a CD differently than others might. |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-03-17 19:09:33 Comments: It was I who suggested noise reduction was like adjusting your TV color for the best possible picture. I still believe that statement to be true, though your points are well taken. I think the problem might be in the term "noise reduction." I see the process more as "audio enhancement", so that rather than pulling a tooth, we're filling a cavity. I agree that too much processing can be (is) a bad thing, but done right it's nothing more than the original session engineers had in mind by shutting off the air conditioner before a take, or placing the microphone in such a way as to eliminate leakage, or for that matter, EQing for the sound of the room. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-17 23:45:43 Comments: I have to admit, though, that you have a point, Joe. I'm not saying that NR is bad, or wrong, in fact, i'm sure more NR goes on than we like to think. But when you do lower the noise, it does have the effect of enhancing some part of the spectrum at the expense of another part. I guess what we should be concerned about is where that balance is, and how much is too much. I don't think i'm being contradictory here. Both Steve, and you have made very valid points. When I restore an LP or tape, I'm trying to restore some of what was lost or hidden in the storage medium while removing the effects of that storage and it's recovery from the medium. *Anything* I do, even using a different cartridge, changes the perception of what is there on the record or tape. No matter what I do, i'm second guessing someone. The minute that master tape is recorded the integrity of the rcording is changed. I guess that's where the skill, knowledge and experience of a reissue engineer comes in. Any comments from the pros here. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-18 02:35:52 Comments: Everyone seems to have very definite opinions about noise reduction. Succinctly, these are mine. I think that on rare occasions, a tape has such an inordinate amount of tape hiss that by using noise reduction judiciously, you can make the music more listenable. But I also believe that noise reduction never adds anything. All it does is remove. In the end, it must be viewed as a tradeoff. But know this... when you think that you may be hearing artifacts, you probably are. And at that point, you have crossed the line and should not be allowed within 100 feet of a Pro Tools or Cool Edit Pro system for the rest of your life! As a mastering/restoration engineer, my job is to be as true to the original source as possible. I would like to feel I can make a small contribution by cleaning up clicks and pops, fixing bad fades and maybe making subtle (underline: subtle) improvements in EQ. Frankly, I do not have a problem with a little bit of hiss, especially on tapes from the 50's. I think a former poster to this site is well-intentioned, though misguided in trying to remove all hiss from CD's even for the ego gratification of receiving an "A" grade in Mike's beloved publication. My own opinion is that it is a disservice to CD buyers to tamper with the music in such a blatant manner. Remember, there are no controls on your amplifier to put back what was removed by indiscriminate use of noise reduction technology. Digital processing for fun and amusement is great. If you like to run music through your Pro Tools or Cool Edit Pro programs and totally change the complexion of the music, be my guest. Your hobby, your rules. But I would really resent it if you were let loose in the real world of commercial reissues and were allowed to play these games. Some of this music, especially from the 50's and 60's may never be released commercially again and I would not want any self-styled mastering engineer to ruin the music for me as a consumer by thinking I am willing to sacrifice musical integrity just so I can hear a product devoid of hiss. Whenever I am involved in mastering music from the 40's, 50's and 60's, I am extremely careful to treat it with the respect it deserves and would like to see it presented in as close to its original form as is humanly possible. The people who slaved over these records (the artists, producers and engineers) had far more knowledge and experience than I can ever hope to achieve. Being allowed to work with original master tapes is a responsibility I take very seriously. My mission is merely to help preserve what these talented people created and present it to today's generation of CD buyer. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-18 03:19:47 Comments: If you are looking for the cleanest version of "Mr. Blue", "Fingertips" or "Woman" in stereo, word from ABKCO of an officially sanctioned Cameo-Parkway box set, or dramatic first hand interviews with survivors of the Atlantic warehouse fire back in the 60's, this post is NOT for you. If you are (dare I say), over 50 or perilously close to that magic number and like music from the 50's and 60's, you may be interested in the content of my latest CD project for Good Music Co. (a/k/a Yestermusic). This package should be released in approximately four weeks and can be ordered online from: www.yestermusic.com. It's a 2CD set / 36 songs. A fair amount are stereo (EARS PERKING UP ALREADY!) The title: "20 YEARS OF GOLDEN HITS FROM AROUND THE WORLD". The music is from 1950 through 1969 and these are all either pop hits by foreign artists, or foreign songs by domestic artists. This is a chart-driven package and many of these songs are either first-time on CD, or are not readily available on CD so they might be considered first-timers too. DISC 1: Nel Blu Dipinto Di Blu - Domenico Modugno (m), The Breeze And I - Caterina Valente (m), The Happy Wanderer - Frank Weir (m), Oh! My Papa - Eddie Fisher (m), Girl From Ipanema - Stan Getz/Astrud Gilberto (s), Sukiyaki - Kyu Sakamoto (m - from tape, not disc), If You Love Me (Really Love Me) - Kay Starr (m), Love Me With All Your Heart - Ray Charles Singers (s), The Lion Sleeps Tonight - Tokens (s), Al-Di-La - Connie Francis (s), Winchester Cathedral - New Vaudeville Band (m), Jamaica Farewell - Harry Belafonte (m), The Day The Rains Came - Jane Morgan (s - rarely heard version sung in French), Marina - Rocco Granata (m), Third Man Theme - Anton Karas (m), Anna - Silvana Mangano (m), Tzena, Tzena, Tzena - Weavers (m), Mack The Knife - Ella Fitzgerald (m). DISC 2: Say "Si Si" - Mills Bros. (m), Spanish Eyes - Al Martino (s), All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee (s), The Poor People Of Paris - Edith Piaf (m) note: if you are only familiar with the Les Baxter hit instrumental, this version is a treat, The Hawaiian Wedding Song - Andy Williams (s), Guantanamera - Sandpipers (s), Come Prima - Tony Dallara (m), C'est Si Bon - Eartha Kitt (m), Morgen - Ivo Robic (m), Ciao, Ciao Bambina - Jacky Noguez (s), note: from a pristine stereo tape located in France, La Vie En Rose - Tony Martin (m), Skokiaan - Bulawayo Sweet Rhythms Band (m), Dominique - The Singing Nun (m), Cara Mia - David Whitfield (m), Sailor - Lolita (s), My Love, Forgive Me - Robert Goulet (s), Auf Wiederseh'n, Sweetheart - Vera Lynn (m), Around The World - Victor Young (s), note: those who were disappointed in the previous appearance of this song on another record label, this is real stereo with good separation. Disclaimer: No cruelty was performed on any of the songs by noise reduction during the making of this CD! Sorry to have taken up so much space with this post. I now return you to the BSN chatboard and a post by Beatlefan, already in progress! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-18 04:40:16 Comments: I just couldn't let you down! ;-) |
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Name: S.
Baird From: B. R., LA Time: 2000-03-18 08:32:26 Comments: Thank you Marty W for your contribution to the issue of noise reduction. You continue to give all of us reasons to respect you as the true professional you are. And you, too, Joe S. The notion of filling a cavity to continue my tooth analogy was quite good! Getting back to the TV, I have a friend who thinks that a certain mid-sixties Zenith TV had the best color rendition ever made available to the public. Fortunately, we have a mutual friend who is a professional audio/TV repairman who was able to keep it running for many years past its expected lifetime; but, alas, my friend was forced to buy a new set recently when he learned that a replacement picture tube was no longer available. His reasons for liking the set so much?? In his own words, the colors were more vibrant than real life -- almost surreal. Lucky me -- as some of you know, I am a contributor to an audio enthusiast magazine. I am going to New Orleans today to pick up that new Sony SACD player for evaluation purposes and a short review. If you have not yet heard the SACD and you appreciate the ultimate in digital sound, then you owe it to yourselves to hear this thing. Unfortunately, Sony chose to keep it as an audio purist device. The current model is a whopping $5K; a *consumer* model is due soon for about half that. SACD's detractors say that the format will never make it because it is not capable of reproducing 5.1 DVD sound -- which is what the kids want. I would prefer my *live* performances to be presented to me as if I were sitting in the audience, thank you very much. |
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Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, OK Time: 2000-03-18 09:40:37 Comments: This NR discussion prompted me to dig out one of the Original Sound (ha!) Oldies but Goodies CDs, which I remembered as being de-noised to the point of distraction, and great googly moogly, this thing sounds even worse than I recall. The parameters for this "Waring-FDS" thing - now apparently fallen into desuetude, and good riddance - seemed to add up to "Chop out all hiss, no matter what." Now I'm admittedly somewhat heavy-handed when it comes to making up my own compilations for home use, but if what I do is overkill, then this stuff is genocide. |
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Name: Barry
Margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 2000-03-18 11:35:55 Comments: Does anyone know if the wonderful german label, REPERTOIRE, has gone out of business? I went to their website and got a single page saying "new catalog coming soon If anybody knows, I'd appreciate any info. (Here's another post of mine to be ignored!!!) Oh, and by the way, wonderful SUNDAZED is FINALLY releasing a first-time CD by THE IDES OF MARCH, containing all their pre-WB Parrot and Kapp singles. There's going to be some stereo, although I doubt if we'll be lucky enough to get "You Wouldn't Listen" in stereo! In case you don't know this stuff, they were one of the best and most interesting Chicago pop groups. I have all their Parrot and Kapp singles and love them. The CD will be called IDEOLOGY. |
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Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-03-18 12:03:22 Comments: Marty Wekser, Are you at liberty to say what happened to Bob Beckham's "Just As Much As Ever" from the Discoveries CDs? It was originally listed but never showed up. Any chance we will see it soon on something? Also appreciated your comments on NR. I appreciate your attitude and work. Dave |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-03-18 12:42:04 Comments: Marty, thank you for your views on NR. I agree 100%. It all comes back to respect for the original production. I'm reminded of an article by Al Kooper in EQ magazine a while back in which he complained about not being asked to participate in the digital remixing of his own previous productions. He said no one else knows the subtleties of the original mixes (from that era of "we'll fix it in the mix"). How could anyone else know of the Quick EQ change to make that one cymbal crash shimmer, or that solo which was comped on 3 tracks for half a bar, etc........ How can anyone argue with that logic? Whatever is done to those recordings must be done with respect....... On another note, a friend asked about the sound quality and stereo content of the Heartland 1950's collection of infomercial fame. I told him I hadn't heard the collection, but that I expected the quality to be pretty good with very little stereo content because of the era. What he said next floored me ... he said, "Well at least does it have fake stereo? Mono is so boring." |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-18 15:01:56 Comments: To Joe Strigle and others (re: electronically rechanneled a/k/a phony stereo). This is really rather frightening. If you recall, there was a period of time when stereo was introduced when it was the fad to take 50's pop hits and do fake stereo masters that could be used on LP's. Mail order companies seemed particularly happy to use these on their packages, especially those advertised on tv. I'm sure they merely presumed that the audience would fall in love with the idea of hearing different musical elements come out of different speakers. Luckily, most labels that had a 45 singles "Hall Of Fame" (or similarly named series) kept the mono versions in the '45 format. Bill Buster deserves a lot of credit for continuing to market these mono 45 oldies long after they had any appeal to the majors. Fortunately, by the time CD's came into being, this fad had passed and pioneer CD producers and tape vault researchers (and I give the most credit to Bill Inglot and Ron Furmanek here), decided to try to find the best original mono sources of these songs to use for mastering. Obviously I refer here to songs which were originally recorded in mono. Remember, the aforementioned persons are not "engineers" (nor am I, for that matter.) But the diligence in finding the best tapes and making them sound great on CD today is really more in the province of the compiler/producer/tape researcher. A good "engineer" will do the technical work (transferring analog or digital sources into a Sonics system to get the music in the final format so a master can be sent out for manufacturing,) This is not to diminish the importance of the engineer. After all, equipment must be up to par and performing correctly, vintage tapes and metal parts need the experience of a truly dedicated engineer to handle them properly, and engineers generally have a good set of ears and can let a producer know when "enough is enough" in either eq-ing or applying noise reduction, etc. They really do function as a good sounding board at your mastering session. Think of it as a "checks and balances" system. About being "frightening", my point was originally this... what if Cool Edit Pro and other NR systems were widely available to record companies back in the mid to late 80's when CD's began? What if some engineer decided that this technology should be used to rid tapes of ALL hiss and convinced enough record companies that this was definitely the way to go? Then we would have had a first generation of CD product sounding like what many of you complain about...over processed music which has become sterile sounding due to aggravated use of noise reduction. Luckily, this practice seems to be restricted to some home enthusiasts and has made only minor inroads into the area of commercially released product. Now, here's an interesting topic for future discussion. How about stereo oldies from the 50's, 60's and 70's on CD where on some copies in your collection you have songs with channels reversed, (i.e. percussion on the left channel and strings on the right, yet on other copies of the same song the channels are reversed.) Does this annoy you as it does me? Do you find it the least bit curious? Or don't you even mind it. How about some good discussion on this. |
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Name: Henri
Bronsgeest Time: 2000-03-18 15:25:21 Comments: Re Bill Deal The Best of Norfolk Sound has one cut by Bill Deal in stereo. It is called BIG TOE IN THE WIND. |
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Name: Henri
Bronsgeest Time: 2000-03-18 15:50:26 Comments: Just picked up Jackie Wilson SWEETEST FEELIN' on Music Club. It includes a lot of the later hits and many duets with Count Basie, LaVern Baker, etc. It even includes an "X" rated version of Think Twice with LaVern Baker. Quite "X" rated and funny!! |
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Name: motownfan From: W. Grand Blvd.?? Time: 2000-03-18 16:29:04 Comments: You can take this to the bank. It is official. There will be a MARVELETTES and a JR. WALKER Millennium release. These have already been scheduled. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-18 16:49:53 Comments: Oh,Marty! You're entering psychoacoustical territory when you talk about reversing channels. Yes, it bugs the beetle out of me when this happenes! With headphones it can change your whole perspective on the music and song. It's like hearing what was originally mono in some inferior stereo mix that bears little resemblence to the mono mix (had to work that in!). For 60's music in particular, how can one know what the correct channels are if they didn't even get it right the first time? I think of Sly & The Family Stone's greatest hits on LP and CD. How do we know which is correct, especially if the original LP's are not on hand for comparison? |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-18 17:54:52 Comments: Speaking of Bobby's Girl. . . . .OK, no one was. . . .but could someone confirm a suspicion of mine? Does anyone remember hearing this 1962 Marcie Blane song in stereo before 1996? The Goldmine and Jerry Osborne catalogues show an album was never released by Marcie Blane, so it's unlikely there was an original stereo release. I've heard a lot on mono reissues of this song over the past 38 years. The first time I heard this song in stereo was about three years ago on an FM oldies station while driving my car. I pulled my car over and lowered my head between the door speakers (anyone else ever do this) and thought to myself "where did they get that!" I did some research and found the stereo version on "Hard To Find 45's on CD, Vol II 1961-64" (from the master tapes - Eric 11503-2). This was released in 96. Not only is it in stereo, but the sound quality is good enough to have been recorded yesterday. |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-03-18 20:17:44 Comments: Thank you Marty Wekser for the advance track listing on the AROUND THE WORLD double CD. I have a question about the inclusion of "Sailor (Your Home Is The Sea)" by Lolita. This appeared in mono and mediocre sound on HEY LOOK WHAT I FOUND VOL. 3. I believe it first appeared on Time-Life's YOUR HIT PARADE THE '60S. Unfortunately, that version used a recitation with alternate lyrics for the spoken part. I think the assumption at the time was that Kapp had leased the hit version back in 1960 and could no longer supply it to Time-Life. I noticed that you are using a stereo version. Were you able to find the original version - in stereo? (I hope!) |
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Name: Marty Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-18 20:41:53 Comments: It's been my understanding that a stereo tape of "Bobby's Girl" was circulating in collector's circles well before 1992. I know that as early as the mid-1980s, I heard a cassette of Blane's vocal overdub session of the song. Not only was the tape in stereo, it contained studio talk and had a cold ending. I'll never forget that when Dick Bartley learned of the tape's existence, through the music grapevine, he called me, and I referred him to the person who had forwarded the track to me. He then had the stereo mix on the cassette remastered and began playing it on his syndicated program. So when I hear that Bartley is still playing stereo mixes that are not available elsewhere, I'm not surprised. He's an unstoppable cheerleader for stereo oldies on the radio, because, like us, he cares. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-03-18 20:44:25 Comments: "Just As Much As Ever" by Bob Beckham and "Anna" by Arthur Alexander were both supposed to appear on the Discoveries CD. However, about that time, Universal put a limit on the number of their tracks that could be licensed for various artists packages and turned down our request for those two tracks. Too bad because they really do sound good in stereo and Bob Beckham had (has)never shown up on CD.Also, my two cents worth on noise reduction...I use it very judiciously on my work. I'm glad someone mentioned the old Original Sound FDS process because Marty Wekser and I had the conversation some time ago that the SDARS process really producesalmost exactly the same results.As I mentioned in the last BSN Newletter issue the end result of what you get isn't nearly as dependet on the computer program you may or may not be using as it is just being able to hear what sounds right. Unfortunately some people think that hearing something with no tape hiss at all and with all it's ambience sucked out of it sounds good.But that's what the world is all about...to each his own and who's to say who's right or wrong. I can tell you though that the companies that Marty Wekser and I work with are very particular about wanting the remastering to be as close to the sound of the original as possible. |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 2000-03-18 21:29:20 Comments: Nice to get some chat going concerning how much noise removal is too much. There has been some amazingly good clean up work done on vinyl sources recently (check out some of the Ace Records from England rockabilly and 50's comps where disc sources are cited). You'd be hard pressed to tell which songs were from vinyl - the key is that there's still hiss present, showing the mastering folks didn't try to scrape every speck of noise off. Like it or not, you can't expect to dehiss something and not take the life out of a recording; the hiss lies in a pretty sensitive region of hearing where the "life" or ambience lives, and when that's gone a recording becomes sterile. I'm also glad to see folks mentioning what we're listening to our music on; the farther up you move with the quality of equipment you're listening to, the more you become aware of the monkey business that's going on when material gets mastered. My system is far from the 6 digit systems that I see in Stereophile, but with some well thought out choices I've got a system that makes a well mastered disc a joy and a clunker disc make me grab the remote and hit off... I'm curious about what Mike C. uses to listen to for reviewing purposes; it might explain why things he's rated don't match up with my experiences, such as DCC gold discs (which tend to be the most honest presentations of music, warts and all, that I have in my collection - Steve H. rules!!!). |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-18 21:53:50 Comments: Re: Marty Natchez: Thanks for the info on Bobby's Girl. That seems to confirm my suspicion that is was not commericaly available in stereo for decades. |
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Name: Mark
Hanson Website: From: Niles, MI Time: 2000-03-18 22:19:06 Comments: Regarding my comments on headphones vs. speakers -- one point is that on headphones you can't ESCAPE hearing every little flaw in the recording. And you can never fool yourself about mono -- the darn music sits right there in the middle of your head. My speaker listening is never in an optimum (or even very satisfactory) arrangement -- the best I get is in my truck when I'm parked in the lot waiting to go in to work. So I, for one, find speaker listening a LOT more forgiving than headphones. |
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Name: Mark
Hanson Website: From: Niles, MI Time: 2000-03-18 22:25:40 Comments: BTW, I am a great fan of David Ackles (who just recently died). Last time I visited Rhino Handmade, I mentioned that he was among my favorites. I got the following line back: "And, by the way, The Archivists love, really love, DAVID ACKLES as well. So I'd stay tuned if I were you." So maybe good news for us DA fans. |
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Name: Frank
Wright Website: vidman Time: 2000-03-18 22:38:54 Comments: A couple of years ago I read in BSN that "Be Bop Baby" by Ricky Nelson had been found in stereo. Has it ever been released? Also, EMI was supposed to put out a double CD on Rick Nelson similar to their Jan & Dean double package. Whatever happened to that? I just picked up the Varese/Fuel CD "Rick Nelson A Night to Remember". It contains 16 live recordings from 8/22/85, which I believe are the same as the Silver Eagle LP which was marketed on TV back in the 80's with a companion VHS tape of the concert. At that time, I avoided buying this LP because I was mainly interested in Nelson's original studio recordings, not live concert tracks. Now that I have most of his studio work on CD, I thought I'd add these live recordings to my collection. I saw Rick perform most of these songs live at a local mall just a few months before his death. The big bonus on this CD are the five mpeg videos including the classic duet with Fats Domino of "I'm Walkin'". The videos play real clear on my Windows Media Player- dare I say that they are close to DVD quality? Even if you already have the Silver Eagle concert, I recommend this disc for the videos alone. I think I paid $12.95 for it. By the way, these videos are from the 1985 live concert, not Rick's songs from Ozzie & Harriet. I'd like to see all of those assembled and released on one videotape and/or DVD someday. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-18 23:30:36 Comments: RE: Frank Wright: In the early eighties, EMI France (of all places) reissued about four of Ricky's first LP's including the stereo versions of his 1959 LP "Songs By Ricky" and the 1961 stereo LP "Rick Is 21". I was stunned at how many great stereo songs were on those LP's that never wind up on those "best of" compilations. The quality of those LP's were excellent. I've mastered those LP's to CD-R and you can hardly tell they came from vinyl. Have the complete stereo versions of those LP's ever wound up on CD? |
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Name: John
Sellards Time: 2000-03-18 23:58:14 Comments: Okay, the Waring-FDS always sounded to me like somebody eq'd all of the highs out, and then used an exciter to put them back in. Am I correct here? Is the SDARS perhaps a combination of that analog technology and Cool Edit or something? |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-19 00:54:40 Comments: From a very reliable informant, I was told that Capitol-EMI's plans for its previously postponed Rick Nelson box set were reactivated. The project is currently in pre-production, without a target release date. The BGO label in England has begun reissuing Nelson's Imperial albums as "twofers." So far, only his first two albums have been released. The label recently did a fine job reissuing Bobby Vee's Liberty LPs that way. If Nelson's catalog is given the same treatment, we might expect that his stereo masters will become available again. |
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Name: Phil
Beckman From: Naples, FL Time: 2000-03-19 01:02:48 Comments: Regarding early Bill Deal, it is unlikely that the first hit ("May I") exists in stereo. First pressings of the 45 were on the Beach label which I always suspected was a Frank Guida label of sorts. On the Heritage Bill Deal Anthology, released in late '70 or '71, the only cut that was stereo and passed for a hit (and a very minor one at that) is "Nothing Succeeds like Success". The rest of the Bill Deal hit stuff was all cut in Norfolk. Regarding the posting about the old Zenith color tv, there is a place in Philadelphia that can rebuild just about any old picture tube. They actually did one for a 1939 DuMont! Sure was nice to get the new ERIC compilation and hear "Lonely Boy" in stereo. Anyone know whether it is from the stereo 45 or tape? |
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Name: Jim
Warrick From: Burke, VA Time: 2000-03-19 05:53:30 Comments: I just saw the week old (+) posting from Billie Jo (I'm trying to come up with the name of the song and artist for the following words: DADDY WON'T YOU TAKE ME BACK TO MUHLENBURG COUNTY, DOWN BY THE GREEN RIVER WHERE PARADISE LAYS. Can anyone help?). In case you haven't already received an answer to your question, the song about which you are asking is called PARADISE, by John Prine. It was on his first, self titled, LP - John Prine (a GREAT album, by the way). |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-19 06:51:53 Comments: Barry, I don't think anyone ignored your posts! Perhaps no one knew the answer to your question and didn't feel they could add anything so they didn't respond. I'm not familliar with THE IDES OF MARCH beyond their single "I'm Your Vehchle", but if their other stuff is comparible, i'm interested. Everyone here has their own agenda. I don't think this topic of NR is useless clap trap at all! It all goes to the way our oldies are presented on CD's. And on that issue, I don't think they restored the highs in FDS CD's. When you take out all the noise, you take out the overtones and leave more of just the fundamentals. In other words, the higher frequency range where some of the musical overtones reside are being cut which makes the main musical content stand out more or glare. It changes the music. That's probably where the percieved atrificial highs came from. Also, hiss does give the illusion of more high frequency content being present. Bill Inglot once said that "once you start to take steps to remove hiss, it's your fault as the engineer". When I go to the Cool Edit Pro forum, sometimes I see some of those users suggesting how to remove every last bit of noise possible. I even tried someone's settings and the results were horrible! It was much worse than FDS! And, many in the younger generation who use CEP are accustomed to digital silence, so they try to scrape every ounce of noise out of everything. I also think a lot of this NR maddness started when CD's first came out. Everyone fell in love with the idea that the music should jump out of pure silence. Some got it in their heads that if you could just strip or carve away all that hiss, you could get back to what the music really sounded like, forgetting that is was all originally recorded on tape! Digital was sold as being "perfect" so a few people stopped at nothing in their misguided attempt to make CD's "perfect". The concern was more with the technology, not the music. I still cringe when I see those Art Laboe Original Sound and Priority's "Baby Boomer" CD's in the store bins. All I think of is Hank Waring's FDS, and how unsuspecting people still buy these things up. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-19 08:38:10 Comments: John Prine's albums are all available on CD. Atlantic reissued the Atlantic catalog, his Oh Boy label reissued the Asylum catalog and is the label he records for today. There is also a 2 CD Rhino collection called "Great Days: The John Prione Anthology." |
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Name: S.
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-19 09:00:52 Comments: On the subject of titles with reversed channels, the one that immediately comes to mind is Dion's Runaround Sue. On my old Ace UK vinyl LP (absolutely the best sounding *oldies* recording I ever heard), the guitar at the opening is in the left channel; on the Ace CD, it is in the right channel. I never thought about which was right, or how the song compared to other samples of the same track on my 5 other CDs with the song on it, since it sounded the best to me of the 5 copies I have. I can imagine how important the issue of reversing the channels could be, though -- especially in some forms of music, like classical symphonic music where the listener expects the strings to come from the left channel, the woodwinds placed between the speakers, and the brass and double bases from the right. Since popular studio recordings do not intend to recreate the actual spatial character of the original recording session, I would imagine that the locatons of the various voices and instruments is really up to the recordist; how he/she determines each of the pieces fits together best. Although this is not to the point of reversed channels, one of my all-time favorite studio recordings that was done so well that it could fool you into believing that you were listening to a live performance on stage is Dan Hicks & The Hot Licks: Striking It Rich. If you have a higher quality audio systems, the original VINYL LP (Blue Thumb T536) will bowl you over. *You Got To Believe*, the very first track, is so well-recorded that you can hear the two female back-up vocalist's voices distincly and separately as an image to the right and left of the single microphone into which each of them sang; the image of the entire performance goes well beyond the boundaries of your speakers in every direction. (The CD, by comparison -- MCAD 31187 -- has none of these virtues -- it is flat and lifeless.) There is a photo on the back of the album jacket showing the band on stage in a live performance which precisely mirrors the placement of sound on the record (one of the other casualties of the CD: that photo, along with most of the other graphics on the album jacket, are gone). If you remember the IN CONCERT series that ran on ABC TV on Saturday nights in the early 70's, The Hot Licks assumed the very same positions on their installment in the series as is seen on the LP jacket. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-03-19 10:45:20 Comments: First, Barry Margolis, chill out. Your comments are not necessary. This is the kind of stuff you should really keep to yourself. If you have a problem with someone not replying to your posts, attack them privately, instead of flaming the whole board and its' loyal followers. Second, I heard Dick Bartley play "Jailhouse Rock" in stereo last night, and I'm curious where this exists? I heard a rumour a year or so ago that this existed, but where can I find this recording? I know it wasn't on RCA's soundtrack reissues from a few years ago (where the "Love Me Tender" stereo cuts appeared). |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-19 11:36:57 Comments: I've even heard this stereo mix of Jailhouse Rock, through an MP3 that Tom Daly made out of his source for the stereo mix. |
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Name: barry
margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 2000-03-19 11:59:09 Comments: Sorry about the emotion of prior post...but I do stand behind the fact that time and again, I have offered information, and on occasion asked a question, and they were largely ignored. I have tried to start a thread of conversation, but with no luck. So, the frustration is genuine...perhaps the method was not modeled correctly. Oh, well. For those of you who don't know the pre-Vehicle IDES OFMARCH, they were one of the best and most interesting Chicago pop groups, easily belonging right alongside with The Buckinghams and Cryan Shames. Their first Parrot single "You Wouldn't Listen" reached #42 on the national charts. During this period, their music was listenable pop-rock, with harmonies and well-written songs. The upcoming 18 track CD on Sundazed (a great reissue label by anyone's standards), contains all 5 of their Parrot singles, the super-rare previous single on Epitome, as well as a couple of unreleased tracks. There's at least two songs that'll be in first-time stereo. Also, the german label REPERTOIRE, whose website has been down since the first of the year, is one of the best, most consistant reissuers of British rock and some American bands, as well. They specialize in 20-30 tracks per CD, with excellent sound, and stereo whenever possible. they, however, do not do a lot of first-time stereo remixes (in keep the European stands these days). That said, I have between 15 and 20 CDs on this label, and I'm really quite generally happy with them. When (and if) their website's up and running, check them out. Barry |
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Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-19 12:48:40 Comments: I also heard "Jailhouse Rock" in what appeared to be stereo on Bartley's show last night. (BTW, did you notice that the show was not live last night?) Except that the instrumental bridge seemed to be totally mono, with the rest of the song having some left/right presence, although most of the "sound" seemed to be in the center. Is this another of what some have called "synch-ups"? Or--and I vageuly remember hearing this--this mix was developed for a re-release of the movie with a stereo soundtrack. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-19 14:01:08 Comments: Well, all of us here have our own agenda. If something i'm not interested in is being discussed, I just wait until it comes around to something I can discuss or comment on. We all have left info or asked questions without any response. You just have to try not to take it personally. I'm slow, but can anyone comment on Taragon's Best of Red Bird Records CD, with all the tracks mixed or remastered by Elliot Goshman and Ron Furmaneck? I saw this and realized that I've never heard "Leader Of The Pack" in stereo. I have most of the other songs in stereo, but is this CD worth it? Does the stereo match the singles? |
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Name: Marty Wekser Website: marty@source-q.com From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-19 14:15:28 Comments: Come come beatlefan. They're thinking of changing this chat board to BEATLEFAN SAYS NOW (so they can keep BSN!!) You reply to every post. But that's fine. As for the Taragon Red Bird/Blue Cat CD, it's a little known fact that these transfers were all disc transfers taken from pristine Japanese album pressings. (Just kidding). This is an excellent CD which Eliot and Ron spent hours and hours preparing (I bet they spent at least five hours getting this ready). It is really a fabulous sounding CD. The stereo separation is unbelievable. And if you like the old Red Bird/Blue Cat hits, you should DEFINITELY add this to your collection. If that's not enough, they have used "Woman" by Peter and Gordon in stereo as a hidden bonus track. My only quibble with this package is that they opted for the Doris Day version of "Leader Of The Pack". A strange choice. I'm not sure if subliminal advertising will make you buy this Taragon CD, let me just say BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW BUY IT NOW |
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Name: terryoregon From: Oregon Time: 2000-03-19 14:40:29 Comments: According to the pamphlet inside that "Stereo 57" CD (Elvis), the first two track Ampex recorders were being used in Elvis recording sessions as early as January 1957. Those two track masters were used as a back up safety copy and sometimes used for a mix-down mono master. Those two track masters were usually erased and used again. One of those two track tape was "supposed" to get erased but somehow got put aside and forgotten about, and then discovered later (thus the Stereo 57 CD). So. . .it seems likely Jail House Rock was recorded in two tracks, but unlikely those tapes would have survived (at least you would think). The mystery continues. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-19 14:50:44 Comments: Let me add a comment in response to a recent well-articulated post about reverse channels...I don't think of it as an issue of right or wrong. The originally released stereo version on vinyl (when, presumably, the original producer approved the final test pressing) is the "right" version whether you might agree with his style of stereo mix placement or not. All it takes for such screw-ups is for a studio's equipment to be miswired when subsequent tape copies were made for this to happen, but it is nothing more than carelessness. No different than if you were hooking up your home system and reversed a red and white RCA plug somewhere along the line (or possibly even speaker pairs.). Most engineers would probably not be that familiar with a song that they would realize that the channels were reversed and for most people, maybe this is irrelevent. But I think if you know the song like the back of your hand, it is sometimes frustrating to hear a great sounding stereo hit (as the Dion Ace track which was cited in that other post), but knowing something just ain't right (because it should be "left"). I noticed this on "All Alone Am I" by Brenda Lee which I have used on a forthcoming package. There is noticable dropout on the last few seconds of the song on all the versions I checked, including the most recenly one used on the Millennium package. But the sound quality is fine and I know I couldn't do better going back to the vault and doing a fresh transfer. On the other hand, of the five versions I have on CD, there was only one without the dropout and that was on the version Bill Inglot transferred for the "Your Hit Parade" CD. But guess what. His version has left and right reversed so it is different from the other four. And the other four, to my ears, sound correct at least as far as channel placement. So when I mastered this track, I reversed (L) and (R) on our final master giving the CD buyer the best of both worlds. |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-03-19 14:56:43 Comments: Re: John Adkins. You're right, in comparison of how Tom Daly describes the stereo mix he has, the mix Bartley played last night sounded like it could have been a synch-up. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-03-19 15:54:09 Comments: Aw, Marty W., I don't reply to every post. I sure hope you don't have a problem with that, my being here, or that some think i'm "overly opinionated". I may not be where you guys are in the business, but my passion about music is the same. Maybe it's because the name "beetlefan" tends to stick out. Perhaps I should use my real name here? Sometimes days go by when I don't respond. Just scroll back. Steve and I had a slight discussion of how many times people respond on another music chat board. According to the stats there, several of us have posted over a thousand times in just the last couple of years. That is a lot! And some are schoolteachers, and lawyers. We're just all dedicated music lovers. |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-03-19 16:23:11 Comments: Since this board (along with Mike's publication BOTH SIDES NOW) is sometimes used to research obscure information, I'd like to clarify my earlier comment that the stereo version of Lolita's "Sailor" contains different lyrics in the spoken bridge. The English spoken part has the SAME lyrics in both the stereo and mono versions. However, they are different PERFORMANCES of this spoken part. Mike Callahan also noticed the difference when the stereo version first appeared in 1993 on the Time-Life CD YOUR HIT PARADE THE '60s. (See page 333 of the BSN newsletter for his comment). After exchanging private emails with Marty Wekser, I think we've concluded that the original single version was probably never recorded in stereo, or rather, that one performance of the narration was added to the mono master and a difference performance of it was added to the stereo master. There are no differences between the mono and single versions except for the narration. Still, I hope eventually there will be a clean, well reproduced copy of the original 45 version, preferable from near first-generation tapes, not vinyl, released on CD. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-19 17:13:32 Comments: Just got back, so this may be a bit late... A few notes. Jailhouse Rock: I've been told the two track master was in 20th Century Fox's vault and was found a few years ago (and transfered), but has since gone missing again. Don't know much more. As for noise reduction - it may want to be noted that while many US engineers did indeed use it in the early '90s, almost none do today. However, it is still used in the UK quite a bit - some of the Kinks' CDs were NR'd, as well as much of the recent Beatles material and all of the recent Who material. BBC Sessions and Pete's "Lifehouse Chronicles" both have heavy handed NR by Jon Astley, and it sucks. Everything is *very* bright, and digital artifacts are abound. The synth stuff in Baba O'Reily is really bad in places. Comparing the material on "Who Came First" (done in the early '90s by Tim Young on Rykodisc) to the same material on "Avatar" (other recent Pete T. box set - mastered by Jon Astley) reveals *heavy* NR on Avatar, which unfortunately sucks the life out of the music, makes it more brittle, and adds digital artifacts. It's sad when a CD some years old sounds much better than a brand new CD put out by the artist's official reissue producer. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-19 17:13:33 Comments: In reply to Larry Davis, who is actually married to Lolita (she goes under the name Lolita Lolita-Davis), I would like to bring up these points regarding "Sailor." If the difference between the mono and stereo versions is that subtle (the inflection on the English narration which appears in only one verse), would most CD buyers prefer to have a real stereo mix of this song, or a mix with, albeit, the original narration but in, dare I use that vulgar word, MONO? The original Kapp tapes are in the vault. My call on this was to go with stereo which I think is a very nice, though fairly narrow, mix. I also maintain that the original German recording of this song, which probably exists on a German LP or German CD, probably does not have the English translation...why would it?? Germans do understand German! This sounds like it was an accommodation to the U.S. Kapp label who thought it would clarify what Lolita was singing about! So, maybe Kapp suggested to Lolita's producer to add this to the existing mono master before they released this single in the U.S. And in the interest of expediency, they may have just done this as an overdub onto a second mono machine. Maybe after the record became a hit and Kapp decided to put out an album by Lolita, they were faced with having an acceptable version for the mono album, but a stereo version which excluded the narration. So they then went back into the studio with Lolita and had her try to duplicate the English translation for this U.S. stereo version. Since she's probably not as adept at this as Anita Kerr, she probably couldn't nail the performance exactly the same, hence the slight variation. |
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Name: beetle Time: 2000-03-19 18:29:24 Comments: Luke, don't fogert the Elton John remasters! |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-19 18:44:04 Comments: To Barry Margolis: I'm more than a mite interested in the Ides of March; their WB album "Vehicle" had an interesting pair-up of Crosby, Stills & Nash's "Wooden Ships" with Jethro Tull's "Dharma For One". Can't find it anyplace. |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-03-19 18:46:02 Comments: The stereo version of "Bobby's Girl" has been on CD since at least 1992, when it was included on Collectables' The History of Rock, Volume Five. It also appeared on Too Cute! (DCC), and And the Answer Is, Vol. 2 (Bear Family), among others. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-19 19:50:48 Comments: Friends and fellow stereophiles, read up. Once in a great while, a song comes up which has a touch of nostalgia, yet doesn't chart too well, and eventually fades into the dust. By that I'm referring to "What A Wonderful Thing We Have" by the Fabulous Rhinestones. Well, thanx to a company in Japan called Vivid Sound, the album with that song (originally Just Sunshine JSS 1) is back. Those who remember that rarity and want it in their stacks can visit www.vividsound.co.jp and check it out. |
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Name: Henri
Bronsgeest Time: 2000-03-19 22:08:01 Comments: Why would Jailhouse Rock be in the 20th Century Fox vaults? It was an MGM movie after all. Treat Me Nice, the movie version, came out in stereo several years ago. |
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Name: Gary
Bader From: Victoria, B.C., CANADA Time: 2000-03-20 00:19:12 Comments: A few postings ago "Motownfan" said that the Jr. Walker and the Marvelettes packages had been given the go ahead to add to the Motown Millennium Masters series. That's good news. Now, hopefully they will find the stereo version of "I'll Keep Holding On" by the Marvelettes (it appeared on the original vinyl version of A Collection of 16 Original Hits Volume 5"), however maybe there is an even punchier stereo mix hanging around the vaults. Wonder if they will be able to locate a stereo version of "Please Mr. Postman" with the full "Deliver da letter" ending. Any scheduled release date on these two? I also appreciate all of the "technical" information on the remastering process. I don't usually think too much about how it gets there, only that it sounds good to my ears is the main thing. But obviously there is a lot of time and effort goes into producing a good sounding oldies cd, and hats off to all the people involved for giving us oldies lovers our "fix" of great music!!! |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-20 01:18:00 Comments: Marty, there's no "slight" difference to the "Sailor" issue. The English translation added to the stereo German version of "Sailor" is clearly different. No one even attempted to DUPLICATE the hit single version. I have the original German hit single version on a German cd, and it sounds really great, but there is no English translation added! Just as you said. But I prefer the American single version; mono, if that's all there will ever be. I was hoping someone would sync-up the American hit version with the stereo German hit. After all, that sort of thing has been done before. |
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Name: Alan T. From: Phoenix Time: 2000-03-20 01:30:11 Comments: The Anna, Tri-Phi, and Harvey were labels owned and operated by Gwen Gordy and Billy Davis. Although Berry Gordy had masters released by the labels, and often used Gwen's connections to release his masters on other labels, he did not have any real say in the operations of any of those companies. They were separate companies until 1961 and Berry bought up many of the staff and artists' contracts for Talma. I cannot get real excited about the stereo version of "Jailhouse Rock" circulating around. The effects used to separate the elements to create a stereo picture often distract from the performance. It does not share the hard right/left separation of "Stereo '56". I'll guess I'll have to listen to my LP of "I Was the One" that has the posthumous overdubs to see if part of it was sampled source for this song. Hey Luke did you see any of the Castle reissues of the UK Buddy Holly LP's. Flat mono sound, but better than nothing. |
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Name: Martin
Nathan Website: Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester,MA Time: 2000-03-20 04:19:18 Comments: Hi, Awhile back, somebody here mentioned something about some CD's called Mr. Maestro. I was in a CD store in Boston and the owner showed me a listing of the tracks and it looked quite impressive, but I already had bought a lot of other stuff and I didn't purchase the MM discs. Could somebody tell me where I possibly buy them on the net. I can't get back to Boston until next month. Martin Nathan |
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Name: Chip
Cristarella From: Gillette, NJ Time: 2000-03-20 11:29:57 Comments: I think I can help clear up the confusion on the stereo version of"Jailhouse Rock." "Jailhouse Rock" was filmed by M-G-M in 1957 in the wide-screen "CinemaScope" process developed by 20th Century-Fox back in 1953. Part of the agreement studios had to abide by with Fox in order to use the system (besides a fee for the "CinemaScope" name) was an adherence to a strict set of technical criteria, which included mandatory 4-track stereo sound. However, by the time "Jailhouse Rock" was shot, Fox started to ease up on the requirements to use their system, due to protests from theater owners over incompatibilty with their standard 35mm projection equipment. (CinemaScope 35mm prints had smaller sprocket holes, 4 mag stripes on the edges for sound and no optical soundtrack) The first to be jettisoned was the proviso that ALL CinemaScope productions be in color. Second Fox eased up on the stereo sound issue, and okayed the inclusion of a mono optical track. Then they reverted to the same size sprocket holes as standard 35mm. This also had the net result of taking away some of the original width the process had. "Jailhouse Rock" was one of the last CinemaScope productions to feature 4-Track Stereo sound, however, only the "really big" theaters got this version. It was much more common to see a standard 35mm sprocket hole/mono optical sound version in the local theaters. (Which shaved off about 3% of the extreme right side of the CinemaScope frame.) Music recording was done at Radio Recorders in LA (presumably) on full coat mag 35mm film on a 4-track 35mm Mag recorder . These were never intended for record release or even considered for the record buying public. It's for this reason that the versions of tunes in the film differ so much from the record versions. Of course "Jailhouse Rock" is one tune that is the same or at least uses the same "basic" as the movie version. I think that song is the only exception. There is no relation to the sessions which produced the "Stereo '57" CD. Now, the stereo version of the tune that has been floating around comes from Ron Furmanek, who in the mid-70's aquired a VERY worn original 4-track Stereo print of the film (Actually only part of it, it's missing 2 or 3 reels). This was actually a revalation, since it had been largely forgotten that the film was shot/presented in Stereo. If you look up reviews or ads of the film from the time of it's release, no where is Stereo Sound mentioned. He had the soundtrack transferred to tape, and tried to convince TPTB to dig for the sound elements. He was rebuffed because these people "knew" that the film was mono only, and not even the physical evidence of an actual stereo print could persuade them otherwise. It is now believed the sound elements are "lost", since there is no record of them in M-G-M/Turner's files. I've seen this print. It exists. Saw it on the screen, held the film in my hands. A NOTE ON THE MIX: The stereo version of "Jailhouse Rock" heard today uses only two of the four tracks. The other two tracks have the "call & response" vocals ("Rock...Rock..."); another lead vocal by Elvis (making it doubled tracked), and the horn section. The version of the tune Bartley played and Daly promotes was released on a video called "Elvis: The Great Performances" which was co-produced by Furmanek. Don't know if it's still in print, though. |
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Name: S.
Baird From: 70810 Time: 2000-03-20 14:05:22 Comments: Marty, just one other thought on recordings where the channels may have been reversed. I never thought much about it, but in the old days of audio equipment, several brands of preamps and receivers had a mode switch on them that would allow the users to hear left or right channel only, mono, stereo or reverse stereo. My 10-year old Audio Research SP-9 has just such a switch on it, so I can hear the opening guitar on Runaround Sue in either channel from any source for the song I have. Thanks to Bradley for posting the info about the S&G albums being newly remastered and soon to be released from Sony at another site. That info is certainly welcomed, just so long as they don't screw them up like they did the Dylans. I wonder if they're going to jack the prices up. I've been listening to Sony's new SCD-1 in my home for 3 days now. The difference between DSD/SACD and PCM is blatantly obvious; the latter being no match for the former. But, will it catch on? Personally I hope so but will not hold my breath. With the quality of the music (not the sound) on the variety of software that was provided to me, I can't think of too many titles I would be running out to buy. Oh, if only one of those were an S&G title instead of Mariah Carey... |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-20 14:27:38 Comments: Re: Simon & Garfunkel - While I have yet to see or hear any real information, I would *think* these would be similar to the Byrds CDs - Bob Irwin did the Old Friends set, and I would certainly think he would be doing the S&G CDs. I guess we'll find out soon enough... I just hope Greatest Hits is done right - no crossfades, and a clean intro to America... |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-20 20:38:39 Comments: This is one time I wish I had my turntable hooked up, but having just listened to Bear Family's "Lolita: Seeman, Deine Heimat Ist Das Meer" CD (BCD 16204), the stereo version of "Sailor" does not have a narration and a second mono version on the same disc does. To my ears, the spoken section has a slight "foreign" inflection that I can't recall hearing on the Kapp 45. So if anyone can spin that old 7-incher, please report back if there IS or IS NOT a detectable "foreign" inflection on the spoken part of the American single. I'm just confused. The issue is two English mixes that possibly exist, right? Thanks. |
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Name: John Melron From: NYC Time: 2000-03-20 21:20:09 Comments: Yes, Marty Natchez you are correct. There is a slight British inflection to the stereo version on the spoken part. So someone finally discovered this, eh? The bottom line is that nobody really cares in the big scheme of things, does one? Like in the movie GWTW "Frankly my dear, I(We)don't give a ....." It's still great to have it out in stereo! |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-21 00:30:47 Comments: To John Melron...the slight British inflection on the stereo version of "Sailor" can be easily explained. They tried to call Lolita to come into the studio to do the narration, but they misdialed and got Lulu instead! In any case, the Good Music Co. CD coming soon (in about four weeks) will definitely feature "Sailor" in stereo. |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-03-21 01:58:31 Comments: While checking out my Kapp 45 of Lolita's "Sailor" again, just to listen for the accent, I found a reissue (from Polygram-Australia, around 1980) that I had forgotten about. This one has yet a third different narration with a decidedly German accent to the spoken bridge. It is also in stereo, so there must have been more than one overdub made for the overseas market....I know that John Melron will be very excited to learn about this discovery. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono From: Time: 2000-03-21 11:22:53 Comments: Re: Beach Boys Sea of Tunes Well, I just got my new SOT version of "The Beach Boys Today and "Summer Days, Summer Nights" in true stereo, and all I can say is WOW!!! After having to listen to the flat mono all these years, these are a revelation. I'm a big BB fan, and I love these, however, I *could* see some people complaining because these sound different. This was made directly from the session tapes, however. after repeated listening, two things are very obvious. One, the final mono 45 masters have parts added to them that are not on the session reels, evidently, they added those "last minute" parts live while they were doing the final mixing. These include guitar licks, over the top vocal parts, some harmony parts, and some percussion. The second thing is that, they did ALOT of premixing on these LPs. Meaning that, they recorded the band on 4 track, then premixed those to one track, leaving the remaining 3 tracks for vocals, overdubs, ect. The result, as heard here, is that on virtually every track, the band is all condensed in the center. None of the backing track instruments are spread out in stereo. You do hear the occasional guitar, drum, organ, or tamborine overdub off to one side of the stereo mix. Some of the vocals are spread out, with the lead on its own and the backing off to the side, but some are not. "When I Grow Up", for example, is basically narrow two track stereo, vocals left, music right. So, in a nutshell, the tracks from "Today" have a better stereo spread than "Summer Days". STILL, if youre a BB fan, you have to have these. Its still 1,000 times better than the mono. BUT, if youre a purist, you may not agree. Hope this helps...Mikey |
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Name: Glenn
Sauter From: Time: 2000-03-21 13:37:37 Comments: Mike A: Thanks for your review of the new SOT Beach Boys CD. It appears from what you are saying (regarding the "pre-mixing") that Sea Of Tunes was either unable or unwilling to find the vocal sessions and mix them into stereo and sync them up with the the stereo backing tracks as Capitol did on "California Girls" (on Endless Harmony) and the Pet Sounds box. Remember, you can hear lot's of hard to find stereo on THE HITS OF YESTERYEAR Wednesdays 11A-3P EST at http://www.wlng.com Unfortunately, WLNG transmits only in glorious mono. Sounds great on the studio monitor though!! |
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Name: Cary From: Kansas Time: 2000-03-21 17:22:29 Comments: For Martin Nathan who wanted to know where to get the Mr Maestro CD series--Rock Classocs has all but the first few volumes listed at their web site. http://www.portorchard.com/rockclassics/ The correct titles and volumes are: #1-Memory Lane, #2-Do You Remember, #3-Our Songs Of Love, #4-Play Those Oldies, #5-Bring Back Those Doo-Wops, #6-Memories, #7-Moments To Remember, #8-Souvenirs, #9-Mr Deejay |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-03-21 18:34:05 Comments: Heard Al Wilson on the radio today. He called in to Rush Limbaugh's show to thank Rush for playing The Snake on his radio show so often (as a tribute to Herr Schlickmeister). Al said that he had finally one a court battle that lasted 10 years that gave him ownership of his own *MASTER TAPES*. He went on to say that the original multi-track session tapes were destroyed in a fire, so only the two-track stereo mix-down tapes exist. So there you go, Marty, Steve, Eliot et al. We may finally be able to hear The Snake on an American CD. & it just goes to show that you just don't know what you're missing if you don't listen to Rush. |
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Name: rob Referred by: Lycos From: florida Time: 2000-03-21 22:00:05 Comments: I am looking for The Merseyboys VJ 1101 LP-- stock or promo, any condition. If you have this, please e-mail me: rcz3@mediaone.net. Thanks! |
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Name: Henri
Bronsgeest From: Time: 2000-03-22 10:55:07 Comments: I just listened to both mono and stereo version of Sailor. They have different spoken bridges by different people. And I'm sure that the original German single has no bridge. Why should it? |
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Name: Andy From: Time: 2000-03-22 15:17:39 Comments: In going through my LP's and CD's I have noticed that I only have a rechanelled or a stereo re-recording of "Same Old Feeling" by Pickettywitch. Do anybody know if the true stereo 45 version exists anywhere on CD ? I've noticed a Polly Brown CD has just come out, but all of CD's that I know of have SOF on it are stereo re-recordings of it. Can anyone help ? Thanks |
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Name: Roger
Round From: Vancouver , BC Time: 2000-03-22 20:53:23 Comments: Does anybody know where a guy could leech "Eddie Hodges" version of New Orleans or Wayne Newton's "Love of the Common People" the latter being a present for my 15th b'day many moons ago from two girls that thought I would like that song. Any help would be appreciated. Any body remember Tommy Steele's version of "Singin' The Blues" ? Thanx in advance , Roger |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono From: Time: 2000-03-22 23:11:06 Comments: For Roger: I dont have it handy to check, but I think that "Love Of The Common People" (great song, by the way) was on the Wayne Newton Capitol Collectors Series Cd from the early 1990s. I know its on the "Best Of Wayne Newton" Capitol Lp. That one shouldnt be all that hard to find. The nice thing, is that if you do find the CCS Cd, it has his really impossible to find 45 "Coming On Too Strong" where Terry Melcher, Bruce Johnston and Gary Usher tried to make Wayne sound like The Beach Boys!! Its worth it just for that one!! Hope this helps. Mikey |
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Name: Roger
Round From: Vancouver , BC Time: 2000-03-22 23:32:04 Comments: Thanx for the info on Wayne Newton, Mike . It'll give me a starting point. |
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Name: Larry
Davis From: Longview WA Time: 2000-03-23 01:41:37 Comments: Roger, Tower Records website lists THE WORLD OF TOMMY STEELE as being in stock. The first of 20 tracks listed is "Singin' The Blues". I have a question for our Beach Boys experts. Who sings the bass rhythm vocal on "I Can Hear Music"? |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 2000-03-23 07:55:15 Comments: For Mike and Roger: Love of the Common People isn't on the Wayne Newton CCS cd. Comin' on Too Strong is, however. |
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Name: don From: memphis Time: 2000-03-23 15:14:30 Comments: Any suggestion on good CD issues of Huey "Piano" Smith? I know the old U.S. Ace issues sound bad, but how 'bout the recent Music Club comp, or the various Edsels? Others?? |
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Name: Richard
Moritz From: Time: 2000-03-23 15:28:06 Comments: For those who are interested in such things: there is an explanation of Artifical stereo techniques at: http://www.2xtreme.net/regina-r/tmov/fake2ch.htm Though the discussion is attuned to classical releases, the Capitol Duophonic technique was the same for Beach Boys discs. |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono From: Time: 2000-03-23 17:03:07 Comments: For Larry Davis...the bass parts on the Beach Boys Records were virtually all done by Mike Love. I've seen tons of video clips of the BB live, and Mike is always the one doing the bass parts. Hope this helps. Mikey |
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Name: Mike
Michel From: Rocket City AL Time: 2000-03-23 21:06:48 Comments: Anybody here use or know about this Napster craze I read about? It seems you can get music on demand from all participating parties. Sounds great to me. From what I've read the music industry is scared silly. But what a great concept. Instead of shelling out big bucks for one or two songs on a CD you can get only the songs you want. Maybe Sony, BMG et.al. will start providing access to their libraries and the consumer can get only what he or she wants not what the Labels want to provide. Just think of all the possibilities. Is this a great country or what? |
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Name: Dave-o
Thompson Website: Kool 99.3/Harrisburg Referred by: From a Friend From: Hershey PA Time: 2000-03-23 21:30:37 Comments: Did anyone other than Wayne Newton chart with "Love Of The Common People"? I've been asking where I knew this song from ever since I got a recording of the Indigo Girls doing it. I don't have any research materials that go beyond the top 40. I thought it would be Joe South, BJ Thomas or the like. |
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Name: Larry
Naramore Website: From: Sun Valley, Ca. Time: 2000-03-23 22:16:22 Comments: Dave-o, Waylon Jennings did a great version of Love Of The Common People. Listening to my Joe and Eddie disc on GNP Crescendo, great sound. Great stereo content. |
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Name: Randy Vest From: New York City Time: 2000-03-23 23:08:23 Comments: "Love of the Common People" was a #54 hit for the Winstons(the R&B group of "Color Him Father" fame) in 1969. Also,the Everly Brothers had "bubbled under the hot 100" withthe song, hitting #114 in November 1967. And, Paul Young released the song in November 1983, ultimately reaching#2 on the British charts. |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 2000-03-24 05:00:04 Comments: Just read in the new Goldmine, Betty Johnson has released her greatest hits cd, Bally and Atlantic. Has anyone heard it yet? Can it be ordered from Disc Collector or from Betty only?? Bob. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-24 08:12:42 Comments: I do use the Napster program, it is a great resource for music. Waylon's "Love of The Common People" album has been reissued on CD by Buddha. |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-24 18:48:39 Comments: Interesting interview with legendary engineer/session player Jimmy Johnson of Muscle Schoals Sound studio in the latest issue of EQ Magazine! In the interview, he states that many Wilson Pickett sides were cut in mono, including " "Mustang Sally". The first session he recorded was Percy Sledge's "When A Man Loves A Woman", also recorded mono. He also says that Aretha Franklin's first two hits, "I Never Loved A Man (The Way That I Loved You) and "Do Right Woman, Do Right Man" were recorded in STEREO. Thought y'all would like to know to clear anything up. |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-24 19:04:17 Comments: My triggered memory of "Love of the Common People" was hearing the Four Preps' version (Capitol 5819) on the radio. I suppose it was only a "turntable hit," as the single didn't chart. Still, it's my favorite version of the song, featuring Dave Somerville of The Diamonds on lead vocals. Collectables has reissued the Four Preps' "Collectors Series" CD, so it is easily obtainable. Get it, too, to hear Somerville make a "flub" toward the end of the song. The 45 fades too early to hear it, but the CD contains the full take in first-time STEREO. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-24 21:06:04 Comments: Beetle, re: Yea, those Aretha tracks are quite obviously in stereo...;-) Actually, they only had a mono machine, and Tom Dowd brought a loaner 4-track down there to do the Aretha session. He had to rewire the entire console. After the session was done the 4-track left, and Dowd had to rewire for mono again! Sometime after that they did get stereo/4-track, although I don't know when exactly. |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-24 21:21:35 Comments: Yeah, Luke, all that trouble to hook up a multitrack for what turned out to be only two songs, all beacuse people can't get along! And they went to do a whole LP. Anyway, anybody else pick up those new Stevie Wonder remasters of "Talking Book", "music Of My Mind", "Fulfillingness First Finale", and "Innervisions"? I did. While "Music..." and "Innervisions" sound fine despite the increased brightness, the other two are downright edgy! They gave me an earache even at moderate levels. I guess it's the best they could do because they are all 2x or 2x+ generation tapes, but the treble...I expected a warmer sound. But they are clean, and detailed, and the packaging of the original LP's have been restored, with all credits and lyrics. They even went as far as to reproduce the Tamla label but didn't bother to include the track listings there. Well, maybe i'll experiment by running them into Cool Edit and use the parametric and graphic EQ's to cure the brightness. |
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Name: Mike
Parros Website: From: Hanson, MA Time: 2000-03-24 22:06:40 Comments: Songs that are available on Napster are really stored on participants' computer hard drives. If you register with Napster, you must indicate a directory on your hard drive to which you will download songs. Also, if you want to allow other people to upload songs, you must indicate the directory where you are storing the songs you want to share. (You can use the same directory for both download and upload). Uploading and downloading can occur concurrently so as you are downloading a song, you can monitor other users' upload activity. The songs are stored in mp3 format which means they are compressed. Some compression programs are better than others so if you want to decompress a song to a .wav file and burn it to CD, you may want to check the sound quality before you burn. You will need software to play and/or decompress the mp3's so you can download Winamp for free. "Garbage in, garbage out" so if the source of the mp3 was a scratchy record, that's what you're going to hear. Napster is big on college campuses so it is unlikely you will see a song listed as "Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley (DCC Gold Disc remaster-stereo)"!!! Finally, I've been on Napster for nearly 2 months and have downloaded a grand total of 11 songs. On the other hand, I read that a student at Harvard was found to have 8 gigabytes of mp3's stored out on the school's server. Some colleges have implemented a block on Napster. Finally, there is no fee to use Napster and there is no charge for the songs. |
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Name: Tom
Kennedy From: San Ramon, Ca. Time: 2000-03-24 23:30:17 Comments: This is for Don: I have Huey "Piano" Smith's "Having a Good Time," VBO vol. 1 on the Westside label. Sound quality I would rate a "C" - fair to good. All mono of course. This is probably better than the earlier ACE CD's but these have never sounded very good anywhere. My favorite, "Don't You Just Know It" sounds good and still rocks right along. Anyone else have a different CD that sounds better? Tom |
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Name: Tom
Kennedy From: San Ramon, Ca. Time: 2000-03-24 23:50:57 Comments: Hi Everyone, Speaking of "Don't You Just Know It," does anyone know the real words to this song? I've listened to Huey Smith's version, and Paul Revere's version, and I've checked many lyrics boards. Here's what I have so far: 1. ALL GUYS DO GET DUMPED BY YOU, (Is this the correct lyric or what?) . . (Don't you just know it) . . . BABY DON'T BELIEVE I WEAR TWO LEFT SHOES, (Don't you just know it)... 2. HEY PRETTY BABY CAN WE GO STROLLIN? YOU GOT ME ROCKIN' WHEN I OUGHT TO BE ROLLIN' . . . 3. BABY BABY YOU'RE MY BLUE HEAVEN, YOU GOT ME PUSHIN' WHEN I OUGHTA BE SHOVIN' . . . 4. HEART OF MINE MADE A FOOL OF ME, (???) YOUNG GIRLS IN TROUBLE THE TIGHTER THEY SQUEEZE. . . . . Any help out there? Tom (nomononomore) Kennedy |
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Name: Ray Dickinson From: Calgary Time: 2000-03-25 00:25:50 Comments: Tom, you might want to check out Lyrics World. This site contains song lyrics from 1930-1999. Just punch in Lyrics World into Yahoo, or whatever, and you should find it. The lyrics are not neccessarily 100% accurate, but are generally better than guessing |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 2000-03-25 06:37:02 Comments: Well, you STILL learn something once in a while. Anyway, I hope to here. Because it was cheap, I bought a 2-disc, 44 song closeout at tvmusic4u.com called "Do You Wanna Dance". It's a typical Cema special markets job, EXCEPT for the "stereo" version of "Tequila". I had never encountered this overdubbed version before, and am quite curious. When? Who? And......why? |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-03-25 14:22:16 Comments: A couple of quick notes: That "Jukebox Hits, 1961, vol 3" that I mentioned a while back does not, I repeat, does not contain the single version of "There She Goes", but a rerecording. Will someone please put the correct version of this song on a cd?!! Good grief, as Charlie Brown would say. Collectables finally e-mailed me about that two-disc, (in a wooden box) set of Andy Williams. It's a gimmick. It's going to be four of the same lps that Collectables has already released (on two-fers). What a wasted opportunity!! They could have presented all of his Columbia hits (and misses) in that box, and a lot of us would have jumped on it. You're not thinking, Collectables. |
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Name: Mark B.
Hanson Website: From: Niles, MI Time: 2000-03-25 16:23:49 Comments: The good news is that the Ides of March CD ("Ideology") will be out from Sundazed next week. The bad news is that it does NOT contain tracks from the WB releases ("Vehicle" and "Common Bond"). Apparently, like their 7" Ides single, the CD (and record) contain pre-WB tracks. Here's the list from their site: 1. You Wouldn't Listen 2. Girls Don1t Grow On Trees 3. You Need Love 4. Roller Coaster 5. I'll Keep Searching 6. One And One Does Not Make Three 7. Give Your Mind Wings 8. Things Aren't Always What They Seem 9. The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore (CD) 10. Hole In My Soul 11. I'm Gonna Say My Prayers (CD) 12. Sha-La-La-La-Lee 13. My Foolish Pride 14. I'll Take You Back 15. Like It Or Lump It 16. No Two Ways About It 17. Hole In My Soul (stereo mix) (CD) 18. Girls Don't Grow On Trees (stereo mix) (CD) Ah, well. I guess I'll have to hold on to that shoddy French release of "Vehicle" for awhile longer. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-03-25 23:11:53 Comments: It doesn't sound much different than Sony's "3 Pak" slipcase boxed sets which consist of the stock CD's repackaged in a slipcase which are wasted opportunities unless you don't have the albums already. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-26 03:45:11 Comments: Here's some good news for Andy Williams fans who bought the Collectables wooden box and who thought they were getting something new. (Well you did. A WOODEN BOX!) But so it shouldn't be a total loss, Varese is offering something which truly is something new...a reissue of Andy's first Cadence hit album: "LONELY STREET". And it will be presented in stereo. For this reissue, four additional bonus tracks round out the set and they too are in stereo: DON'T GO TO STRANGERS, TWILIGHT TIME, IT'S ALL IN THE GAME and DREAMSVILLE. But wait...the real grabber is our last minute addition of track 17. Steve Massie has digitally reconstructed the single version of the song LONELY STREET with Andy's vocal overdubs in a finely executed digital sync-up. As you may know, the overdubs on the phrase "where's this place called 'Lonely Street' " (lyrics reprinted without permission), were added as a last minute touch to "punch up" the single version for AM radio and it was added directly to the mono master, so it does not appear on the original 3-track. In compiling and mastering this CD, I felt it was important to be faithful to the integrity of the original album, so the original stereo mix appears in its proper playing sequence. But Steve's stereo recreation graces this offering (is this flowery writing really necessary??) as the final track and it is well worth the price of admission. Consumers please note: wooden box not included. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: Midnight Novella-land, CA. Time: 2000-03-26 07:35:10 Comments: O.K., so I skipped class that day… how about a quick refresher course - in layman's terms - somebody reiterate a condensed version of the lecture subject "What is an artifact?" Any web-based "glossary of terms" (Perhaps one at this site would be helpful…) so us dummies can do our homework & follow along better with the rest of the class? O.K., onto review & Q & As…. Terry-O..(Like your spiffy lookin' posts…colorful AND informative !) Yes, those French (Pathe
Marconi) EMI LP reissues were great. Never got all I wanted in series. Nice quality, lots of stereo
unearthed, even "non-hit" & R&B stuff..Earl King, Huey Smith, etc. Didn't get all the Ricky Nelson, Eddie
Cochran, Fats Domino, Gene Vincent, etc. Lots of times there's stereo on LP reissues like these that is
passed over on CD reissues. Collectables is just one label that has some "2-fers", other labels have
done EMI - controlled stuff like Ventures, Jan & Dean, etc. Not a whole lot of attention to the "post-Elvis
thru Pre-Beatles" stuff, of course. Rockstar & Ace had several Eddie & Ricky reissues, and always used
stereo where available. Dug up some rarities, too, like underdub "Believe What You Say". If Ricky box
comes out, wonder which version of "Be Bop Baby" is stereo. Probably not superior 45 version.
Japanese W.B., even before CDs, has always been more interested in reissuing the early W.B. stuff. They had an entire Edd Byrnes LP with tons of stereo that I heard spotlighted on a now-defunct cool & crazy weekly L.A. radio show. Never could get ahold of it… wonder if it's been put on CD, like Joannie Sommers, etc.? Don't suppose Joannie's Pepsi jingles are out there anywhere on CD. I'm sure "mp3" airchecks are out there somewhere. "Cruisin'" series is only commercially available source I know of. Probably the most notorious stereo spectrum flip-flopping channel reversal scenario surrounds the various Elvis soundtracks and other early '60s recordings. Most reissues of the hit cuts tried to "correct" the "out-of-place" Jordanaires, and "keep them in their place", over on the right channel. Only a few of the more recent reissues have bothered to address this. Few match the original records. Back when Quad crud was being discussed, "Tubular Bells" was brought up as a "fake Quad" mix. It may have never been anything more than 2 track. A recent Richard Branson TV profile, it mentioned that first Virgin hit was recorded in his home studio. Now, William Friedken has announced that the upcoming ego-stroking "director's cut" re-release of "The Excorcist" will boast what he called "Quintophonic sound," whatever that might be How this turns out, when Quad wasn't even in the cards, will be interesting. This could be another "Jailhouse Rock" type situation, though, where record & film performances differ. Have "Jailhouse" stereos (or any other early R&R) made it to reissue (other than on "video" releases)?. "Treat Me Nise" did make its stereo bow on "Great Performances" album, which, prior to release promised, but never delivered stereo "Jailhouse Rock." Had high hopes for that "AROUND THE WORLD" collection of "international" hits. Suppose you can't please everyone……..What?!? No "El Watusi," "Pata Pata," "Chanson D'Amour," "Eres Tu," etc..etc.. Seems like a lot of these types of collections are a mix of the familiar with just a few rarities thrown in… Recently channel-surfing & landed on now-cancelled "Freaks & Geeks" with super-crispy "Hi De Ho," and wondered if someone knew which reissue has best sounding B.S.&T. Recent Greatest Hits (with 45 edits) may be it but have "album-length" versions been cleaned up? Columbia/Legacy might eventually get to Byrds-like treatment for Simon & Garfunkel, Sly & the Family Stone, etc. Sundazed has done some of their stuff…Paul Revere, Bruce & Terry, etc. One last (promise !) bit: The best (original?) "Love of the Common People" is by Jamaican singer
Nicky Thomas. Big U.K. hit. On several different Trojan albums, including CD TRL 222 "20 Reggae
Classics". One of the first to have overdubbed-in-U.K. strings sweetening. Also preferable: JA.readings
of "Young Gifted & Black," "Red Red Wine" (Tony Tribe). dozens more. Good luck finding these in
stereo though ! Gads, come to think of it, Steve Hoffman dug up & issued some rare JA stereo he
tripped over while excavating for Shelter label material! |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-26 10:56:14 Comments: Boppin' Brian was correct in characterizing the quad version of Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" (Virgin QD 13-105) as "fake quad". I say it was a joke, and I was not laughing. The opening piano riff faded in quite slowly (mistake no.1) and was more reminiscent of Capitol's Duophonic process (mistake no. 2) Back when I was collecting CD-4 quad LPs from Warner/Elektra/Atlantic and RCA and there was a war of quad methods, at least the CD-4 method was still the best as far as sound mixes were concerned. The two rear channels were superimposed as a high-frequency "carrier" signal on the groove wall, which played through a "demodulater" in quad receivers. Most of those LPs were mastered by JVC. Contrary to popular belief, the "rear" channels do come forward very nicely when played in stereo. RCA, for example, did great justice to the 1973 album "#10" by The Guess Who (RCA APD1-0130), by keeping the pitch constant on "Glamour Boy" instead of badly bent on the mass-produced stereo versions. Oh, if only I had a working turntable..... |
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Name: SACD
Baird From: 70810 Time: 2000-03-26 13:27:11 Comments: Ah yes! Toggle switches on your Sansui to switch from mono to stereo -- I remember them well. A story on toggle switches: back in 1968, MG replaced the cool, classic looking toggle switches with round plastic knobs on the dashboards of its nifty little MGB roadster and MGB-GT forerunner to the hatchback. I had been saving up my pennies to buy one of the roadsters, and was shocked to go into the dealer showroom to find that their great little car had been blemished by not only this sorrowful change, but those ugly black bumpers had also replaced the nice chrome ones, and wire wheels were elevated to a high cost option. I remember that the salesman told me that the Fedrul Govamint required the removal of those toggle switches 'cause someone might poke his eye out on one of them in a collision. Ditto the black bumpers -- the feds wanted something safer.Sorry no stereo radio in the car back then either. The definition of digital artifacts will not be a necessary thing if you just go out and buy a Sony SACD player. If enough folks support the new DSD standard, people like Bill Inglot will be forced to adopt the medium & you'll only hear those artyfax on your old PCM CDs. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-26 14:23:26 Comments: Many times an interesting comment appears on this post regarding a "various artists" package and the poster asks why a certain song may have been included, why one wasn't, why something appeared in mono, etc. Well, to Boppin' Brian and to anyone else contemplating purchase of the soon-to-be- released "20 YEARS OF GOLD HITS FROM AROUND THE WORLD", here are some answers. First of all, as a famous person once said "you can't please all of the people all of the time". This is the same person who in later years said "Duophonic sucks." But that's another story. Anyway, ERES TU was to be on this package but we could not locate the owner of the master recording and therefore our licensing/manufacturing company (Universal) would not let us use the track. PATA PATA was not considered, but as it is controlled by Warner Special Products, the cost for licensing would have been too high. (A good song idea, though.) EL WATUSI I don't think would have fit in with the overall sound of this package, Lastly, CHANSON D'AMOUR. We decided to use legit "international" songs (written by foreign writers), or songs sung in English but adapted from foreign songs. CHANSON is neither. The writer is Wayne Shanklin who wrote "Primrose Lane", "The Big Hurt" and "Jezebel". In other words, he's about as French as me or Luke Pacholski! Seriously, we wanted to be true to this concept and therefore a lot of songs which we may have presumed to be foreign in origin were not. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: From: Oscar-ific, CA. Time: 2000-03-26 18:25:56 Comments: "Tequila " tipster gets ya thinkin', where are all these "new stereo finds" (even years later) on legit. domestic CD??? "Gimme Some Lovin'," "You Really Got Me," "All Day And All Of The Night," "Louie
Louie (!)," "Angel Baby (!!!)," "La Bamba," "She Loves You," Eddie Cochran's "Summertime Blues," and
several others ..... Rolling Stones tidbit there reminded me of the newspaper ad I saw for a local shop when first issue (German? Japanese?..it was that long ago..when only those 2 had CD plants...) of "More Hot Rocks" came out & they said "WITH SURPRISES". Never did get that i$$ue, or a chance to hear it. Later got U.S. ABKCO 2 cd. It has a few stereo cuts. Anyone have the earliest (MFSL tapes ?) "import" version? So long from dumpster-residue Oscar land. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-26 18:42:57 Comments: Brian, re: Well, the only stereo versions of Gimme Some Loving, All Day and All Of The Night, You Really Got Me and She Loves You I've heard are sync-ups. Not very good ones at that. She Loves You uses the German take, the Kinks tracks play bits of the song over and over again in one channel, and I don't know about Gimme Some Loving - other than She Loves You (missing masters), the others could/should be remixed from the 3 or 4 track masters. Somebody said that a sync-up of Green Onions was made, but again, Stax only had a mono machine at the time, so any sync attempts are going to have more than just the original music (either a part looped over and over or an alternate take). Can't say I've heard La Bamba or Summertime Blues. BTW, anyone know exactly how Dirty Water was done...? |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett From: Time: 2000-03-26 21:49:45 Comments: "La Bamba" is a synch mix using the mono single synched with the stereo instrumental track from Gold Star studios. I have an interesting question---Blood Sweat & Tears' Greatest Hits was originally released on LP with "You've Made Me So Very Happy", "Spinning Wheel", and "And When I Die" appearing in edited mono (the 45 versions). I've noticed that this LP was also issued in SQ Quad by Columbia in '76. My question is, did Columbia use the LP versions of those three songs mixed for quad on the album (seeing that the LP those three songs are from was also issued in quad), or were quad mixes/edits of the 45 versions prepared? Seeing as Bob Irwin claims he is the first to prepare stereo mixes of the 45 edits for the recent Greatest Hits CD (or was it Steve Massie, since "And When I Die" and "Spinning Wheel" appeared in stereo 45 edits on the Dick Bartley CD's, well before the Sony), I'm assuming Columbia used the LP versions on the Quad greatest hits. Since I can't find a copy of the album to verify this, does anyone else hold the answer??? |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-03-27 08:27:35 Comments: Garrett, I no longer have them, so I can't provide matrix numbers for the Columbia promo singles by Blood, Sweat and Tears, but I believe these were issued to DJs with mono mixes on one side and stereo on the other. This was certainly the case with "Time Has Come Today" by The Chambers Brothers. The only issue of the stereo 45 edit was on promo singles until Rhino issued the stereo single version on the third volume of "Nuggets. All Columbia/Sony CDs containing the 45 edit were rechannelled until then. Here's an odd one, though: The mono side of the promo 45 of "I'd Love to Change the World" by Ten Years After is quite a different mix than the stereo side. The quad LP, however, featured a mix similar to the mono side of the promo but with wide separation! It makes one wonder what kind of drugs CBS were engineers doing in those days... |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-03-27 08:40:08 Comments: To Lex Bloom: RCA and WEA used the JVC discrete quad system on their quad vinyl pressings. The rear channel information was FM encoded in the grooves, so unless you had a "quad compatible" pickup cartridge (Audio Technica, with Shibata stylus) and a CD-4 demodulator, you would never hear that rear channel information by playing those LPs on standard stereo equipment. In fact, all it took was one play with a standard stereo stylus to wipe all the rear channell information out of the grooves! CD-4 discs weren't intended to be compatible with stereo, which accounts for the failure of the format by comparison with the Sony/CBS system called SQ. SQ wasn't compatible with mono, so broadcasters shied away from using them on the air. Playing the quad mix of Lynn Anderson's "Rose Garden" in mono results in the background singers disappearing during the choruses! Today, you'll find far more SQ albums in used bins than you will find CD-4 albums (with the exception of Elvis' "Aloha from Hawaii via Satellite," which was only pressed as a CD-4 LP). |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great lakes Time: 2000-03-27 13:34:41 Comments: To my amazement, I've just discovered that I do NOT have "Bring a Little Lovin'" by Los Bravos in stereo. I thought it was on the same-named Parrot LP (PAS 71021), until I heard the new Retroactive CD reissue of the album. The song is in mono, as is almost everything else on it, too. Does any BSN collector know if a stereo mix of "Bring a Little Lovin'" is available on CD? CDNOW lists a few import discs that contain the song, but there's no way to know if it is in stereo. Long ago in the BSN newsletter, a reader reported that he found the stereo mix on an import LP. I'd like to be brought up to date. Retroactive has also reissued the group's "Black Is Black" album, and about half of the tracks ARE in stereo -- including the hit. Muchas gracias for any helpful feedback. |
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Name: Uncle
AL From: Long Island, NY Time: 2000-03-27 15:15:38 Comments: To Tom Daly: I agree with some of what you said concerning the old CD-4 discs. I still own several of these discs and THEY ARE stereo compatible (the inner dust jacket on CD-4 discs make this claim, however they recommend using a stereo disc on stereo equipment). When played in stereo, the 4 way center channel was approximately 6 db louder than it should have been, creating an unbalanced sound to the disc. When decoded, these discs could be quite impressive (better by far than SQ discs), except for a rather loud hiss caused by the carrier signal. When played with a "regular" stylus, it wasn't the rear channel information that was removed, the carrier signal was removed, making them unlistenable in Quad (loads of distotion). |
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Name: Dave
Sampson From: Time: 2000-03-27 17:29:32 Comments: Re Los Bravos: yes, there is..or at least was an import CD with "Bring A Little Lovin" in stereo. Obviously not an official release, since it has no sign of an actual record label. All that is printed on the CD is A GEMA & the number 21670. "Los Bravos-All The Best"(I got my copy in 1994) has 30 tracks-a mix of Stereo, mono & mildly fake stereo-but the 2 key hits are indeed stereo. mind you, "Bring a Little Lovin'" was always a very strange stereo mix. I'm glad someone posted that the new disc is in mono-i'll make a point to avoid it. |
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Name: ray
matthews From: middle ga. Time: 2000-03-27 19:15:00 Comments: Awhile back while discussing some Rick Nelson songs, someone mentioned a Jerry Fuller promo disc with some of Rick's music on it. I would like to get info on the Jerry Fuller cuts on that cd...especially the songs he cut for the Challenge label. Please email me if you have the promo cd in question. |
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Name: carl
davis From: st louis Time: 2000-03-27 20:14:02 Comments: Hi there Im Carl davis former lead singer and song writer for the chi-lites. I have misplaced amny of our songs and since I have been away from the group for many years I cannot locate them to get copies made. Any one have any of the old stuff I am really looking for the album Toby. Any one who know how to rach the grou such as marshall or possibly eugene record let me know or if anhyone has the album let meknow i will pay you to have it copied for me |
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Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Time: 2000-03-27 20:50:16 Comments: What exactly is the difference between single and album versions of Gladys Knight and the Pips' Midnight Train to Georgia? Is it more echo and a string overdub? |
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Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, Oklahoma Time: 2000-03-27 23:26:20 Comments: The only place I've ever seen a stereo "Bring a Little Lovin'" is on a 1974 double-LP called English Cats and Others (Brookville Records 3400, "produced in association with London Special Projects").
For the curious: Disc 2: United We Stand - Brotherhood of Man (S) / Tell Her No - Zombies (E) / Here Comes The Night - Them (E) / I Hear You Knocking - Dave Edmunds (S) / Everyone's Gone To The Moon - Jonathan King (S) / House Of The Rising Sun - Frijid Pink (S, 4:40) / Black Is Black - Los Bravos (S) / Northern Winds - Cat Stevens (S) / You've Got Your Troubles - Fortunes (S, ends cold) / Shout - Lulu (E) |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-27 23:47:49 Comments: Joel, hmmmm, I never new there was a difference. Without knowing the details, I would say that perhaps the LP version was just a lower generation tape. |
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Name: Bill
WRKBEE From: California Time: 2000-03-28 00:01:18 Comments: Hi there, I'm looking for true stereo versions, on 45 rpm, LP, or CD of the following songs: LONELY BOY / Paul Anka, STEREO 45, ABC Paramount S-10022 issued in 1959-- IT'S TIME TO CRY / Paul Anka, STEREO 45, ABC PARAMOUNT S-10064 issued in 1959-- I'M A MAN / Fabian STEREO 45 Chancellor SC-1029 issued in 1959-- LP: FABIAN'S 16 FABULOUS HITS Chancellor CHLS-5024 (Was this issued in true STEREO??) issued in 1962-- If anyone has any information on where I might find these items I'd sure appreciate hearing from you. Thanks much! Bill, WRKBEE |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-03-28 08:18:46 Comments: Paul Anka's "Lonely Boy" can be found in stereo on Hard-to-Find 45's on CD - The Late 50s , on ERIC Records, catalog number 11506. More information on the disc is available at the ERIC RECORDS website. The CD, which I mastered, received an "A" rating in the latest BSN Newsletter. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-28 11:07:02 Comments: For anyone interested, there's a small MP3 clip of the "stereo" Green Onions on the SDARS website... While it does sound nice, calling it "the hit version in stereo" isn't totally true. For instance, listen to the guitar solo that starts at 1:11 on record (which is in the MP3). Booker T & The MGs only had one guitar player, and there's only one guitar part on the record. However, on the MP3 there are two guitar parts going. It looks like the mono mix of the song is in the left channel, with edits from different portions of the song in the right. Ie, during the guitar solo, there's another part with guitar from earlier in the song in the right channel. Oh well. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono From: Time: 2000-03-28 12:32:31 Comments: Thanks to Terry Oregon, I've been introduced to a fantastic Steve Lawrence song called "Poor Little Rich Girl". Its just one of those great songs I missed. I'm not even sure if it was a Columbia or Dot recording. Now, the kicker...does anybody out there in BSN land have this in stereo, and can you tell me where? This one would sound great in stereo. thanks! Mikey |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-28 12:46:14 Comments: Congratulations Luke! This is a well-made point. It's nice to hear a synch-up taken from different elements designed to give the impression of what the song MIGHT have sounded like had it been originally mixed in stereo. And it's nice to see it labeled this way, especially if it is released commercially. And if a tape or disc does show up which is legit stereo and it appears on a CD for the first time (as the recently returned Tom Daly points out in his recent post for "Lonely Boy"...from the "A" rated Eric CD), that is a great bonus for collectors. But to imply that a stereo tape was recently discovered in someone's attic and is available in authentic stereo does us all a disservice. It is, flat out, dishonest. This is not to say that synch-ups are not enjoyable as a curiosity. But we should be told that this is what they are. Varese Vintage tries to be very careful in explaining how song versions are derived if they are not from the original stereo master mixes but have been created from mono and stereo elements of the same song or different master tapes with certain tracks combined digitally to create what appears to be a "2 track original stereo mix." You will discover several of these songs on the upcoming "Dick Bartley Girl Groups" CD (painstakingly prepared by Steve Massie and Dave Daugherty) and on the forthcoming "Lonely Street" album reissue (a re-created "Lonely Street" with vocal overdubs) assembled by Steve Massie. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-28 12:59:37 Comments: To add to Marty's comments...an example of what I would consider a "true stereo" sync-up would be the version of The Who's "Time Is Passing" I threw together. In case you don't know, TIP was an unreleased Who song recorded in 1971 which was included on the Odds & Sods remaster. According to Jon Astley, the multitrack was nowhere to be found, and the only existing mix had "problems", so the issue on O&S is mono. Well, it turns out it's missing an electric piano and guitar that can be found on a bootleg version of the song - that mix has an intact right channel, but a left channel that fades in and out. In the end, it turns out the mono mix released on O&S is actually the left channel of an original stereo mix - I put that together with the right channel from boot to recreate the original stereo mix. Now, my sync-up certainly isn't perfect (the two sources are not totally in sync), but it is what I would consider a true stereo sync-up... |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-03-28 22:39:50 Comments: Stereo-wise, March doesn't seem to being going out with a bam. But I thought my latest stereo finds might be worth noting. The newest Sundazed reissue CD of the Barbarians' album "Are You a Boy, Or Are You a Girl" contains "Moulty" in TRUE STEREO. One Way's previous CD release and all other reissues of the song have been in mono, I believe. Also perking my attention was hearing "It's Getting Harder All The Time" by the Mindbenders in TRUE STEREO on the Retroactive label's soundtrack CD of music from "To Sir, With Love." Never having heard the original Fontana LP, I'm uncertain if the title track by Lulu and "Off and Running" by the Mindbenders appeared in stereo then, as they are now. Lulu's hit is now common in stereo, I know, but Fontana was notorious for dumbing up fake stereo during the British invasion. Comments? |
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Name: Stereo
Lover From: Time: 2000-03-28 23:10:03 Comments: Where exactly on the Sdars (Skyline) site is this Stereo MP3 of "Green Onion" located. I couldn't find it anywhere...Thanks |
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Name: Barry
Margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 2000-03-28 23:37:03 Comments: Regarding the upcoming IDES OF MARCH cd. No, it won't contain "Vehicle". The pre-Vehicle IDES OF MARCH were one of Chicago's best pop group, and before they got into that kind of medicore white soul stuff (Vehicle), their Parrot singles were just great.....and I've been waiting for years and years for them to be reissued. One thing that seems so very strange regarding this group is the fact that everything seems to be directed ONLY towards top 40 hit radio versions....well, gang, as a person who's been collecting 1950's and 1960's music ever since that era, I hate to break the news to you...but much of the stuff that "charted" was inferior to those records that didn't. So many people on this group act as if it didn't chart, it doesn't qualify. I love top 40 radio of that era, but most of my very favorite records are non-charting following-ups. As far as The IDES OF MARCH goes, the "Vehicle" group might as well be considered a totally different group, though, of course, both contain Jim Peterik. I believe Mike lived in Chicago during the time The IDES OF MARCH were happening...perhaps he can say something about the tracks on the upcoming CD....a CD Ihave already ordered and I'm on pines and needles until it arrives! |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-28 23:43:19 Comments: Thanks Luke for the example of "true stereo sync-up". I wasn't sure what that meant at first. I took a look at the ERIC website (per Tom Daly's pointer). Something caught my attention. I noticed a Linda Scott CD in the works for future release. She is not too well remembered for much other than "I've Told Every Little Star". But she recorded so much more. Her currently available import CD "Ultimate Collection" on the Marginal Label is 31 tracks (14 stereo). The stereo songs on the Marginal CD sound pretty good. If Marginal mastered this from vinyl, I can't tell. Tom, I wish ERIC the best of luck in finding decent stereo sources for the other Linda Scott songs that have typically been reissued in mono. Of course, the Linda Scott stereo recordings have always been the unique mixing with Linda on one channel only, typical of the way Jan & Dean used to do with the Liberty "Visual Sound Stereo". And she had one of the "cutest" voices I've ever heard. |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 2000-03-29 00:20:00 Comments: Barry -how about a response to your posting??? Amen to getting some variety in the coversation! So many cool, lost, local songs from the 50's and 60's are becoming available ala the Ides of March and their early material, and they clobber so much of the poop that folks keep bringing up here (Paul Anka - yuck; Wayne Newton??? - remember, it's just an opinion). Gimme some howlin' ninnies that can barely stay in tune BUT are putting their all into their ONE BIG CHANCE AT FAME any day of the week! My Hoosier heroes Sir Winston and the Commons' "We're Gonna Love" made it onto both a CD (Soma comp. on Plum) and a Sundazed 45 last year - I'll bet the 6 of us who knew who they were did cartwheels when the tape came out of hiding. It's mono, but at least it made a legit appearance. I wish more folks would mention their lost, pounding favorites here (Boppin' Brian, the coast is clear)... A little he-man rockabilly talk wouldn't hurt, either (and there's a whole lotta good stuff that's been coming from Ace and Bear Family) - let's get hot or go home!!! |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-29 03:40:38 Comments: Question to Gary, or anyone else who knows about things Motown: Do you know the story on the two Bonnie Pointer LP's issued in 1979? How about the fact that two different recordings of "Heaven Must Have Sent You", one pop, the other the chart topping disco version? |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-03-29 08:58:50 Comments: To Barry Margolis: ERIC Records owns the rights to some of Linda Scott's Canadian American recordings. All licensed CD issues of "I've Told Every Little Star" is licensed from Bill Buster/ERIC Records. |
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Name: Christopher
Kissel From: Long Island, NY Time: 2000-03-29 13:23:12 Comments: I have to differ with Marty Wekser about the need to "label" how the stereo mixes of songs are "derived". When I buy a CD, I am not listening for the technology that was used to bring me the stereo mix. I am listening to it from a musical perspective. I frankly don't care whether it was mastered from a mono session tape, 2 track, 3, 4, 8, 16, or whatever. I don't care which elements still exist by themselves and whether tracks were synched up or not. If an individual is predisposed to disliking synch-ups or electronically derived stereo mixes, he or she will automatically discount these types of mixes, no matter how good, if they know how they were created. I have heard many synch-ups which do not "sound" like synch-ups. I have also heard one of the "true" synch-ups which is about to be released which appears to suffer from considerable phasing. Rather than be an "armchair quarterback" and second-guess the recording engineer on that track, I am grateful to hear it in stereo anyway. What I care about is whether the stereo mix is true to the spirit of the original mono mix and whether it is musically satisfying. While I still consider myself an audiophile, I have long ago stopped picking apart every song that I hear by straining to hear flaws in the mix. At some point you just have to sit back and enjoy the music! I have heard all of the unreleased stereo tracks mentioned on this forum recently (and then some!) Many are superb! Many are also early mixes which have not been completed. It is interesting to note that advanced digital signal processing (DSP) hardware and software is already making it possible to isolate individual vocal and instrumental elements from a mono track with surprising fidelity and minimal artifacts. The day is fast approaching when many, if not all, songs which exist strictly on mono source tapes will be available in "true" stereo mixes. Will I want to know how these stereo mixes were "derived"?... not really if it detracts from my enjoyment of them. More important than the technology used to derive these stereo mixes is the artistry and talent of the recording engineers who utilize these technologies to allow us to hear these classics in glorious stereo. Having seen and heard some of theses technologies in use already I can assure you that there are very exciting days ahead for stereo oldies enthusiasts! |
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Name: Sammy R. Stevenson From: Time: 2000-03-29 14:41:44 Comments: The comments and debates about sync-ups, etc. really are in the ear of the beholder. There is nothing wrong with those tracks if you like them. However, they are not faithfull to what producers had in mind originally. The real bottom line is that there have been claims on this chat board that the "long lost" stereo tapes of the Kingsmen's "Louie, Louie", "Dominique" by the Singing Nun, "Angel Baby", etc. have been mysteriously found in some warehouse on Long Island. Come on folks, how stupid do you think we really are? The people that perpetrate these kinds of claims aren't real stereo collectors or fans but music people with huge egos. Let's at least be honest with each other about these issues. |
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Name: Marty
Blaise From: Time: 2000-03-29 15:46:50 Comments: Does anyone know what the following web site is all about? It claims to synthesize mono into stereo. How can that be possible????? https://www.qsound.com/secure/purchase.asp?aid=41589&pid=28290 Thanks |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-29 16:20:07 Comments: Marty Blaise, It all says electronically reprocessed stereo to me, in other words, fake stereo. They're getting better at it with today's technology. Anyone with good editing software on the 'ol computer can do the same. Synch-ups, and the like are nice, as long as you don't pretend they're true to the original. I agree with Marty Wekser and Varese's policy about the tech info. It enchances the listening experience for me. Christopher, I also see your point about knowing too much spoiling the musical enjoyment. I'm a musician, but I hate sight-reading because I get caught up in the technical things of it. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-29 16:53:32 Comments: Beetle, re: Sync-ups *can* be true to the original. It's just that some, like Green Onions, are not. |
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Name: Marty Wekser Website: marty@source-q.com From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-03-29 19:52:03 Comments: I would like to reply to Christopher Kissel's post regarding "too much information." I don't think there is ever a situation where you can furnish "too much." There are, however, instances where you can furnish "too little." My own opinion on this is that if I am buying a CD which contains the standard mix of a song (from the correct source and from the original.. or close to the original master), then I am not as concerned about additional "source" information. But if this is a new stereo mix from a multi-track, or a synch-up, or a newly-discovered cleaner and brighter tape source (mono or stereo), I wouldn't mind knowing it. Also, if a song has traditionally appeared in one format (i.e. mono) and it is now presented in stereo, this is something I would like to know. It is possible that I have always wanted to hear a song in real stereo and this may be the first time it is appearing that way, in which case it may be the turning point for me to buy the CD. Lastly, if there are any interesting stories about how tapes were found, assembled, cleaned up, digitially processed, I am always interested in reading about it in the booklet's essay. (Our research indicates that most buyers, certainly "collectors", are of the same mind.) For those people who really don't care to read about such things, they can just play the CD. But there's no reason to deprive people who like this information not to give it to them. After all, it doesn't cost anything. Likewise, some labels like to list record numbers, master numbers, recording dates, release dates, highest chart positions, timings, city location for the recordings, orchestra arrangers and conductors, etc. For those of us who do compilations, we try to please the most people by giving them as much info as possible accompanied by a well-researched, literate essay. We like to feel that if you are forking out your hard earned money, you deserve a nice presentation. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-03-29 19:55:56 Comments: Okay, friends and stereophiles, here's another one. Recently I heard, on the radio (what station I can't remember), what seems to be a special version of Art Garfunkel's "All I Know". In the version we all know, as is featured on the "Angel Clare", toward the end of the song, the orchestral climax fades into a solo piano. But in this version I heard, the music does NOT fade, and proceeds, measure by measure, properly into the solo piano close. Where is this version, is it on CD and why wasn't it mass produced in the first place? |
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Name: Don
Duffey From: Buffalo Time: 2000-03-30 00:05:35 Comments: To Marty W..Re.Too much info..There can never be too much information,but the problem I have is reading the dam small print!!!Varese is one of the labels with this habit of filling the back label with useful info,like what tracks are first time stereo,tape sources,etc.but you need a microscope to read the dam things!!!before I purchase the disc I always look for the * for stereo/mono information,now I need to get spectacles to buy CDs...DAM! |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-30 00:11:13 Comments: My vote for technical info still goes to the Rock Artifacts series. |
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Name: Gary
Bader From: Victoria, B.C., CANADA Time: 2000-03-30 00:45:35 Comments: In response to Beatlefan's question about Bonnie Pointer's "Heaven Must Have Sent You". I have the original Canadian issue of the album "Bonnie Pointer" and only the "pop" version appears on it. This version is similar to the 1966 version by the Elgins (issued on Motown's V.I.P. label). I presume either the producer Jeffrey Bowen or someone else at Motown realized they could get some mileage out of a "disco" version (it was that era when anyone including Andy Williams and Johnny Mathis were doing 12" disco versions), and most radio stations I heard, played the Disco version. There was a single (shorter) and a 12" (long) version of the disco version (I believe it was digitally recorded if memory serves me correctly) and I think the flip side of the 12" was the pop album version. A lot of disco songs back then were remixed and subsequent pressings of the albums included the remix. I don't know if Motown put the disco version on subsequent pressings. All cd's I've heard that have the song have the disco version. There was a second album also called Bonnie Pointer (pretty original?) but it did not contain "Heaven...". It did contain her other minor hit "I Can't Help Myself" also done disco style. Hope this is of some help. And to Marty Wekser, I really appreciate finding all I can about technical info on CD's, new stereo, remixes etc. If people don't want to read about it, don't, but I appreciate all the information that can be provided. There are a lot of CD's I wish they would provide more information. |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-30 01:43:30 Comments: Gary, thanks for clearing that up! I only discovered the pop version a few years ago when I bought the Rhino "Pop Hits of the 80's" series (a fun collection BTW). I had never heard the Bonnie Pointer LP. During that period I was into Chic, Chuck Mangionie, and Wild Cherry. For an early digital recording, it sure sounds excellent! I had always wondered about that recording of the disco, HMHSY. I can think of two reasons more compilations don't have technical info, one, extra cost, and two, they don't really want hardcore collectors to really know what source they are hearing! |
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Name: mike From: Chicago Suburbs Time: 2000-03-30 01:49:43 Comments: Looking for a vinyl album from Jimmy Reed titled High&Lonesome Charly #crb1013. I've found the song on the "greatest hits" album, but I'm looking for the album by the same name. Any help would be much appreciated! Mike |
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Name: Dean
Zemaitaitis From: Calgary Canada Time: 2000-03-30 05:10:47 Comments: In support of Chris Kissels comments a few postings earlier, I too am more interested in how the song sounds, especially in stereo, than how it came to be, though that information may actually be interesting in some cases. The bottom line is that most (but unfortunately not all of us) are on this site because of our love of stereo music and prefer to listen to our music in stereo. I understand and respect that some people may prefer the mono version of a particular hit over the stereo. OK, but the name of this web site is "Both sides now" not "I love mono". Most of the readers here live to hear songs in stereo for the first time and ultimately wish all oldies were recorded that way. Unfortunately this is not the case so we keep looking for those multi-tracks, alt. versions of songs to synch up for a stereo version and other wonderful electronic techniques that may make the song sound more like true stereo. Sometimes, as Chris said, the result is mixed, other times you'd swear it was from some multitracks. Does it really make sense if you like a song in a stereo form, only to all of a sudden dislike it because you just found out it was created from a Mono mix or was a synch-up? Stereo is stereo and when I listened recently to the proper single version of "Jimmy Mack" in stereo (not the LP version) and I hear the great stereo separation it has, I am just extremily grateful that another fellow stereo enthusiast has taken the time,patience and skill himself, to create a great sounding stereo version of the song. As Chris said, if I like what I hear than that's the bottom line. I DON'T want to hear why a mono enthusiast dislikes it. That is akin to a Ford automobile lover going onto a Chevy enthusiast chat group and bashing Chevy's, pointing out all their shortcomings and telling people Ford is a better brand. The people on the Chevy chat site are there because of their love of Chevy's just as most of us are here for our love of stereo. If you love the origional MONO versions of the song, fine, go out and buy them, just don't criticize us stereo lovers from doing what we love to do best, appreciate stereo. As long as the song is reasonably true to the origional and in some cases even if it isn't such as in the "Add a track" stereo version of "Tequila", it is still fun to hear it in stereo. Sure it isn't EXACTLY the same as the 45 version that was released in1958, but it is stereo and it is great to share it with our fellow stereo collectors. Mono lovers claim stereo versions are not what the producer envisioned with the song therefore we shouldn't listen to it that way. in actuality, I feel it is probibly more a situation of a lack of stereo recording equipment, lack of knowlege on the part of the mixer or poor production staff that limited a song a mono mix and release. Everything is mixed into stereo these days and why??? BECAUSE IT SOUNDS BETTER. Technical and finacial limitations was the main reason for all the Mono pre 1968 The one exception to this point is that some mono hits have overdubs the stereo version does not. Fine. It is not that difficult to fix that with todays technology and that's what alot of us are doing so that we can enjoy the hit's as we remember themin stereo. If mono was superior we would still be listening to the latest Madonna or Eric Clapton CD in MONO wouldn't we? Whew, I hope I didn't step on too many toes out there and appoligize to everyone if I did |
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Name: beetlefan From: Time: 2000-03-30 06:41:19 Comments: Hi Dean, I don't think it's a matter of loving MONO. I don't, but that is the way some things were originally presented, it's the way I personally remember it, and it must be preserved along with any stereo. As far as i'm concerned, what was originally released, be it MONO or STEREO, is my standard. That's all I'm saying. I appreciate your comment. But, I believe the topic was liner notes in the CD box. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. Thanks for the civil way for addressing your concern instead of taking pot shots at people. I've done it too, and it isn't right. G'night! |
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Name: Souled
Out From: NJ Time: 2000-03-30 11:53:53 Comments: Does anyone know if Varese Vintage sells mail order? If so, I'd appreciate contact info. Am trying to track down the (recently) deleted Casinos compilation without much luck. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 2000-03-31 00:51:39 Comments: As an example of Ricky Nelson stereo that rarely winds up on those "best of" compilations, here's an mp3 file that includes eight clips from the EMI French vinyl reissues of two early Ricky Nelson stereo LP's; "Songs By Ricky"(his first stereo LP - 1959) and "Rick Is 21" (1961). I just discovered the "Rick Is 21" LP has been recently reissued on import CD (amazon.com). I've ordered it, but don't know if it equals the EMI LP in sound quality. But the first review posted is pretty glowing. Click below to download. Recommend downloading the entire file first (right click on IE 5.0), playing live doesn't work too well unless you have a really fast cable/T1/DSL connection. Editing and encoding by Cool Edit 2000. |
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Name: Bill-wrkbee From: Santa Clara California Time: 2000-03-31 01:41:31 Comments: Hi there again, I sure appreciated the response I got from you guys concerning my last request for info. Here's another: Does anyone know if a true stereo version of "Cast Your Fate To The Wind" by Shelby Flint was ever made or released? And, if so, where can I get it? I've got the mono version, a 45, however, I've never come across even a mention of a stereo track, I believe this song came out in 1967, so I would think a stereo album cut was available. Thanks again for any help you can offer. -Bill |
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Name: Uncle
Al From: Long Island, NY Time: 2000-03-31 12:31:49 Comments: To Dean (and others): The overwhelming majority of the people who contribute regularly to this board ARE stereo enthusiasts. It is not that we prefer mono over stereo, it is just that sometimes when the long anticipated stereo version is released, it does not "move" us the way the original did. This is entirely a personal experience and the people commenting on it are not necessarily voicing an overall fondness for mono. (Mono is - as you point out - all but dead). For example, I love the stereo version of "Hang On Sloopy", only marginally liked the Paul Revere stereo mix of "Kicks", and can't stand Tommy James' "I Think We're Alone Now". All of these first came to light in the 90's. By the same token - the remixed Beatles on the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack", of which the songs were ALWAYS available in stereo, also leaves me flat. I'll take the ORIGINAL STEREO mixes anyday. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-31 14:02:11 Comments: Al, re: Actually, Only A Northern Song had never been mixed to stereo before, so that's a nice treat... And I'd say that while the songtrack is interesting, it doesn't really do much for me as a whole... |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-03-31 19:38:35 Comments: The "From" field came up blank, but I *know* that was Beetle! |
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Name: Alan
Carner From: Fort Smith Time: 2000-03-31 23:12:31 Comments: To Bill wrkbee. The Shelby Flint song, Cast Your Fate To The Wind is in Stereo on Her Valiant Lp of the same title. It's all stereo except for Angel On My Shoulder. It's rechanneled. VLS 25003 |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono From: Time: 2000-03-31 23:55:12 Comments: Re:Standells. Does anybody here on BSN have copies of the EARLY Standells material on Vee Jay and Liberty? Not the "Dirty Water" years on Tower, the early stuff. Please email me if you do...thanks!! |
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