This page contains all the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board
from November 1-29, 1999, when the Guest World Saturn server crashed after several days of
intermittent failures. We managed to get a text copy of the board when it was up momentarily on
November 29, but after that it was out for the count. We finally gave up after a few days and switched
servers.
The messages are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific
topics,
use the
"find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-01 09:24:21 Comments: Larry, there are lots of hits compilations of Gene Autry out there you can choose from and they include the ASV Living Era (an import label from England known for Jazz and Classical but they also issued nostalgia and other vintage country compilations as well, for more info, you can go to http://www.asv.co.uk. Even if the sound quality on some of songs on CD's from ASV and other labels of this nature isn't what you expect, a lot of rarities do turn up on their CD's making them worth buying in their own right) I have, Sony's budget packages of hits, Sony's "Essential Gene Autry" and they do contain the hit versions, but of course, sound quality may vary. I basically reviewed ASV's CD's. Thanks for letting me know about what the Rhino box has. |
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Name: Jay Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-11-01 10:07:28 Comments: Carl, If you like the Westside releases of the Cleftones and Groove Story, you should pick up the George Goldner series of 2cd sets as well. The Rama, Gee, and End label compilations are out now, with the final Gone label coming out at the end of this month. Lots of doo wop and r&b rarities, well remastered and annotated. Westside has taken up the mantle of the sadly departed Relic Records series for doo wop fans. Also, the Westside material is just about the cheapest, price wise, when it comes to quality reissues from the UK import labels. |
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Name: boppin' brian From: SunnyHotDryLaNinaSoCaSurfinUSA Time: 1999-11-01 15:20:22 Comments: Wow, I would love to find some stereo oldies on mp3 files on the Internet, too. (& then try to wade thru computer-gobbledygook at friend's house where i think i could "burn" CD....). But, I suspect that copyright laws are pretty strictly enforced on lots of the stuff we'd all like to have & it may be that only things like the latest tracks from the new, unsigned band "Snot Rocket" may be the only thing available as "MP3" files......Anyone else know differently, let us all know here !!! ( I almost forgot, those countries with different laws, where things from 30-40 years ago are already in the "public domain", may have stuff on the internet........) Smokey Robinson and the Miracles Anthology has stereo stuff not on 35th Anniversary Collection (which is mostly mono), but there is certainly a lot more hiss (LP masters/ E-Q-ing ?).........."Baby Baby Don't Cry", etc. But , where else are you gonna get "IT" by Ron & Bill ?!?! ("35th" set)... Now, if only we could get a Satintones collection.....& a Velvelettes...& a Monitors..& Elgins..& Shorty Long...& early Edwin Starr....&.....well maybe we won't see "Insane" on a CD !!!!!! What's all this "Got A Match" hub-bub ?!?! I guess if we have Alfred E. Newman's "It's A Gas" on Cd, anything's still possible....... How about "A La Carte" by Red Holloway?!?! Interesting comments on Sequel, etc. Strange how with the way things get upgraded, "lost" tapes get found, etc. that reissues from just a few years ago are not "up to snuff" now....... (send me all your "cast-offs" !!!!!!!!!!!) . I have had 99% good luck with Sequel......(anyone heard their Small Faces reissues ...? .Eye-ballin' a couple.. ."Green Circles" + Castle label compilations.......are these O.K. sounding?!?!)...Sequel had, from what I heard, the best Drifters, Ben E. King, Clovers, etc. Has this changed ? Are the Sequels all mono or something?..Westside has done some nice work, but (SOB !) Relic had some gems, that it looks like will now be "collector's items" (gag). Key ingredient : the Little Walter DeVenne "stamp of approval. I understand there is newly (found ? re-mixed?) stereo on "END Story" label-anthology............? One of these UK labels (Sequel ?) did admirable exhaustive reissues of stuff Rhino controls (& lets molder)....Marcels, Raindrops, Bobby Freeman, Cadillacs, etc. etc. Do SEQUEL or WESTSIDE or DEMON/EDSEL have a "website" ? Too bad there are so many "re-runs" on ACE "Golden Age.....#8" ( and all more recent similarAce compilations, for that matter). Any significant "finds" / "new sources" ? Yes, labels like ASV / ASV Living Era fill a need....how many domestic Boswell Sisters compilations do you see at your local shops ? |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono From: NYC Time: 1999-11-01 15:41:06 Comments: I saw this article in a magazine called "Computer Audio World", and I knew it would be of great interest to all of us on BSN. "Sony Music Entertainment has also announced a pioneering new scheme in which a number of New York and Los Angeles record shops will be fitted with equipment to allow customers to find OUT Of STOCK music and DOWNLOAD it to recordable CDR,DVD, MINIDSIK or MP Portables while they wait. 4,000 hard to find albums will be available to shops in Liquid Audio form (which sounds excellent by the way...) via a high speed digital network, including classics and rarities that DONT SELL ENOUGH COPIES TO MERIT SHELF SPACE!!!! Holy Mackeral!! If I ever saw a BSN worthy paragraph, that was it. This is something Ive been waiting for, to have one of the majors say "Ok, this 35 year old stuff you want us to reish isnt worth manufacturing for the small amount its gonna sell, but we can make some money by throwing it up on the network and letting you d/l it. I'm hoping we see things that were on Columbia and Mainstream like Jackie & Gale, April Young, The Redcoats, and ALL the great 1980's LPs on Ambient Sound ect...all stuff that Sony wouldnt reisue because they wouldnt sell 10,000 units. Sony, if your listening, great idea!!!! BSN Buddies? Mikey |
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Name: Jay Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-11-01 18:02:20 Comments: boppin' brian, I agree with you re: Sequel. I have not been disappointed with many of their reissues. Ok, maybe they're not stereo fanatics. Someone please show me the stereo reissues of the Clovers and early Drifters! I prefer their 2 cd of the Marcels to the Rhino, hands down. Hey, I wish Relic was still in business too! I managed to pick up all of the Relics I wanted, about 130 discs, but would be first in line if they ever started reissuing again, especially if Little Walter DeVenne is doing the work! Collectables, I notice is starting to get smart by using people like DeVenne and Tom Daly to work on their reissues. I'm still going to be picky with Collectables product, I just think that with the amount of product they are flooding the market with, they can't be doing all that great a job on some (notice I didn't say all, John :-)) of their releases. RE: Westside website: www.vci.co.uk/music/mindex.shtml Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the Westside logo. Good site, but in bad need of an update, the last I checked! RE: Boswell Sisters domestic. I have a cd from the Sony Legacy series of the Boswell Sisters called That's How Rhythm Was Born, CK66977. 14 tracks from 1932-34 (a bit later than the ASV or Collectors Classics collections.) The great part of this cd is the first track, a song called Rock and Roll. Must be one of the first times that phrase was used in a song title! |
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Name: Randy Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-11-01 18:24:14 Comments: John, I think you meant WAYNE Cochran (not Hank) for the original version of "Last Kiss." And for Carl, "Night Theme" spent seven weeks on Billboard's Hot 100, peaking at #75 in November 1960. |
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Name: Larry Naramore Website: From: Sun Valley, Ca. Time: 1999-11-01 18:32:54 Comments: Brian. Here are a few of the song's that I've downloaded lately from mp3 newsgroups. "Mr Blue" by Clear Light, Sweet Georgia Brown" by Brother Bones, "Sun Comin Up" by Nat Stuckey, Mickey Newbury's "American Triology" from Live at Montezuma Hall concert, "I Understand" by The G-Clefs and "What The World Needs Now" by Tom Clay. Most of these have been ripped from clean vinyl and then cleaned up if needed. E-mail me for more info if you'd like. |
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Name: Alan Carner From: Arkansas Time: 1999-11-01 19:33:37 Comments: Today I saw a new Perry Como double cd from RCA. 51 Classics. Does anyone know what songs are Stereo. It was produced by Paul Williams, known for giving us excellent sound, and Stereo whenever available. |
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Name: Jerry J. Griffith From: Canada Time: 1999-11-01 23:52:01 Comments: Well...here goes. I've come across a commercially sold CD which fits in with Mike's gray area listing. This CD has the characteristic green color so we all know where its origins are. This CD marks my first purchase of a "gray-area" CD but it fills in some really big holes in my collection. Quite frankly I can't wait any longer for the copyright holder to release these despite by moral convictions to the contrary. The CD is called (tongue-in-cheek) YOU ARE INVITED WITH BOBBY RYDELL & FRIENDS TO CAMEO APPEARENCES (sic) ST-1000 and has 30 cuts, all tracks mono and I would rate it a high C. The tracks include Butterfly (Charlie Gracie), Teach Me To Twist (Bobby Rydell & Chubby Checker), So Much In Love (Tymes)...the best I've ever heard, 96 Tears (? & The Mysterians)...very clean, Back to School Again (Timmie "Oh Yea" Rogers), Willyam, Willyam (Dee Dee Sharp), Silhouettes (The Rays), Dinner With Drac (John Zacherle), I'm The Girl From Wolverton Mountain (Jo Ann Campbell), Mexican Hat Rock (Applejacks), Fabulous (Charlie Gracie), I Really Love You (Dee Dee Sharp), Wonderful! Wonderful! (Tymes), Slow Twistin' (Chubby Checker & Dee Dee Sharp), Bad Motorcycle (Storey Sisters), Ain't That Silly (Don Covay), I'm Sorry Pillow (Lee Andrews), Wild! (Dee Dee Sharp), Not Me (Orlons), Rock-A-Conga (Applejacks), Ninety-Nine Ways (Charlie Gracie), South Pacific Twist (Rocky Fellers), Somewhere (Tymes), The Night (Dee Dee Sharp), Mother Please! (Jo Ann Campbell), I Need Somebody (? & The Mysterians), Mr. Fix-It Man (Jo Ann Campbell), Wild Thing (Senator Bobby), Jingle Bell Rock (Chubby Checker & Bobby Rydell), Jingle Bell Imitations (Chubby Checker & Bobby Rydell). Most tracks are clean and have probably been cleaned up. A few are from obvious vinyl sources. For what this is all worth.... |
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Name: John Mahoney From: Tucson, AZ Time: 1999-11-02 02:00:25 Comments: S U B J E C T : A few ideas. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Hi everyone!
Been lurking here for months (years) now. Two observations & suggestions to improve things.
1) In the past, some contributors have expressed dismay over the fact that occasionally we stray off topic. And, the recent Carl Shell episode has cause many to pause and re-examine their very definition of "topic". Also, there was a recent request for indexing this site.
One idea I had was to include a field that's labeled " SUBJECT". Here is a opportunity to allow everyone to state their topic up front. In this way, those interested in the subsequent info can read on, while those not interested can move on.
Personally, I read everything, but having this field might help for indexing purposes down the line. For the most part however, we as a group tend to cover a few topics instead of just one. Soooooo, we could simply indicate this by saying things like "Various" or "Assorted" or "New STONES CD/ 45 edits/ new stereo find!".
Realizing that MC may not be able to restructure his site to accommodate this new field, we could easily do what I did myself at the start of this posting. Just start off each posting with the word "SUBJECT:" and go from there.
Another sorely needed and related area in need of addressing is the lengths of posting. Let me rephrase that the lengthy look of postings. I think that one of the main reasons for the aforementioned turn-off of issues not strictly stereo related is that often, the type appears as one massive block. Who isn't tired of weeding through massive text blocks?
Here again, we can help ourselves without burdening Mike. Notice how I have posted this text with several paragraphs. I was unaware how to do to this, until Boppin' Brian was gracious enough to clue me in. And as he and I already joked via e-mail in the past, he's one guy who definitely needs to!
Seriously, he's a man with a lot of good things on his mind and it would be a shame to ignore him or anyone else just because their posting looked like the Declaration Of Independence!
Okay, here is how it's done:
Type the "<" symbol followed by the letter "P" followed by the ">" WITHOUT the quotation marks and no spaces in between at the end of each the line you want to turn into a paragraph. I use one at the end of a line and another at the start so as to add a line of space between paragraphs
To get a line break any where in a given line type the "<" symbol followed by the letters "BR" followed by the ">"symbol WITHOUT the quotation marks.
This is really easy to do. In fact it works so well that I cannot show you the code as a whole on the screen even WITHIN quotes or parentheses because it reads it and executes it!
This technique is also good for LISTING items such as this example:
Stereo contents of "ABKCO GREATEST HITS":
1. "Every Record I Control" - by Allen & Hoarders
As an aid, once you type the code, simply "copy & paste" each time you want to use it. Also, compose your entire message (including the paragraph codes) in text document such as Word so that you can copy and paste the whole message into the comments field. Then view the posting by clicking on the "preview entry"key. If there are any problems, go back to your word document, fix the problem and repeat the cycle until you're satisfied
Hope this merits discussion and possible adoption.
Regards, |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-02 02:36:19 Comments: Wayne Price, you're right! That was WAYNE COCHRAN who did the original "Last Kiss". I mixed up my COCHRAN'S. I hate it when that happens! The Sequel discs are ok, but unpredictable: lp versions, instead of single versions (DRIFTER'S "Up On The Roof"), same old close-in stereo (DRIFTER'S "Sweets For My Sweet", mono, instead of stereo (GENE PITNEY'S entire lp "Just For You"), and noisy stereo, which could have been cleaned up (SOLOMON BURKE'S "Rock 'N Soul" lp). All I ask, as a consumer are four things: (1) Clean, (2) single versions, (3) stereo, if they were released that way (or, are available for remastering), and (4) tracks that haven't been released on cd before. FOUR SIMPLE THINGS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! And what annoys me is, that would seem to be what most of us (collectors, anyway) are looking for. If every record label would establish those four rules in releasing new product, we, the collectors, would be happy, and they, the manufacturers could be proud of their products. Taragon, Eric, and Bear Family are already in that elite group of companys that provide such products. And thank goodness for them! |
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Name: Jim Warrick From: Burke, Va Time: 1999-11-02 04:58:11 Comments: Does anyone have any further updates on the Stones - Strictly Stereo CD from Discollector? Quality? Stereo content? Track listing? |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-02 07:55:51 Comments: RE: John Mahoney's post about using HTML breaks and page paragraphs. That is a good idea. If you need some help with certain HTML commands, there are many HTML tutorials on the web and Yahoo and other search engine sites do list them in their database. |
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Name: Blind Jim From: Cloud 9 Time: 1999-11-02 09:00:26 Comments: John Mahoney, are you suggesting that the BSN site look something like the ICE magazine site? That is a dual edged sword, I think. It's useful over there since there's so much nonsense being posted, but here we might miss the wit and/or sagacity of Boppin' Brian if we had to click on a subject box or category. (But, Brian, despite all of that "hiss" on the Smokey Robinson Anthology, it has far better dynamic range than subsequent issues, and thus the more natural sounding --read that closer to analog sound. Your bubble gum See-gar is here waiting for you.) There's no question that line breaks help considerably in reading the posts. I haven't bothered to check the accuracy of this statement, so I'm sure someone will actually do the work, but it appears as if there are fewer than 15 - 20 posts to this site per day. It usually takes less than 10 minutes to read everything written. [ -- The easiest way to find things is not an index, but to use control-F on your browser. Although the way the board only allows 10 postings per page is limiting, the original intent of the archives section was to put lots of postings on one page so as to make it easy to search. I have not got all the archives done, obviously, but hope to do that soon. Now if I could only find a way to clone my time... -- MC] |
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Name: boppin brian From: SoCa Time: 1999-11-02 18:07:57 Comments: Yes, I had a choice, there in the shop, of collections on "ASV", "Flapper", and the Sony Legacy the Boswell Sisters ….Unfortunately, I opted for the "more cluck for the buck" approach, choosing the imported collection that had double the cuts of the Sony (pesky licensing cost differences - U.S. vs. overseas…..), and the sources are not what they might've been (& probably are --- metal parts, etc. probably available to "Sony"…). Bottom line, this type of material is only gonna sound as good as the care & skill of the engineering & (most importantly) sources available. One Columbia/Sony/Legacy compilation I have with Boswells material ("Rock & Roll" is more or less "blues & jazz"), a 2 CD all-gals set in their "Art Deco" series, has distinctly improved sound, and not unlike Robert Johnson 2 CD set "upgrades", they may have dug up better copies of stuff. Also, it seems some of the imports use rather heavy-handed filtering processes. Still, in all the one Boswells collection I return to most often is an LP almost as old as myself on "Biograph" label, which most certainly hasn't made a CD appearance…… Can anyone refer me to any info regarding the apparent demise of RELIC ? Geez, no wonder they don't answer their mail ………. Sequel is hit or miss y'all say, well I guess I've been lucky. I like their earlier efforts, but, as can happen, the deeper & farther the reissuers get, the more likely "errors" will occur. I don't have the early Clovers & Drifters & other Atlantic reissues, which is good, from what I gather now, but it's very unlikely any of the Clovers, for one were ever cut in stereo. I didn't mean to imply the were. Still some of the best sources for early Atlantic/Atco stereo would have to be some of the old '60s & '70s reissue LPs. If anyone knows different, let's hear it ! (Besides some of the "anomalies" like the Ray C. 3 CD, Razor & Tie Chuck Willis, and --maybe - some Collectables CDs ????). Good news ACE (U.K.) had embarked on an Atlantic anthologization situation, but haven't heard of anything new lately……. If I wasn't clear enough the first time, I do give the nod to & reach for more often the older 2 CD Miracles "Anthology" & not the "35th Anniversary" mono book/box, even if there are perhaps subtle differences in mixes (& even takes) , mono vs. stereo on lots of Motown stuff…….Weren't they supposed to put out a Stevie Wonder collection/box soon ? . File under "nail - on - the - head" JP's note on the "FOUR SIMPLE THINGS", although"ranking of importance will certainly vary from one individual to another. Put that down as (1)"Clean" & (2) Stereo, etc. from this listener. Yes, Bear Family, Eric, Taragon, and RELIC are pretty much batting 1000. Maybe Ace (UK) & DCC belong on that list, too ….(Sorry, "bench-warmers"……..Sundazed, Varese Sarabande, etc. …don't get me wrong -every once in a while these guys hit one outta the park !) And finally, what does this mean ?: " Boppin' Brian was gracious enough to clue me in. And as he and I already joked via e-mail in the past, he's one guy who definitely needs to." Needs to what ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! … "…..uh, get out more often." ??? "…..spend less time in rekkid stores" ???? "….lay off the Halloween candy" ????? |
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Name: Joe Strigle From: Burbank Time: 1999-11-03 00:21:12 Comments: Got room for a new guy? I used to own a copy of GOODBYE MY LOVE on Capitol by one of the song's writers (Bob Nosley?). This is the same song covered later by the Searchers. Has it ever been issued on CD and in stereo? Also on Capitol was a stereo single by Terry Knight called SAINT PAUL, referencing the "Paul is dead" phenomena. Is that available anywhere? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-03 09:56:26 Comments: Anyone know about CLARENCE "FROGMAN" HENRY on CD? I've never seen anything written about this interesting New Orleans soul artist. I have a mid-late 1969's 45 RPM single, "Shake Your Money Maker" b/w "That's When I Guessed" on Dial. My office/studio is a mess, so I'm not going to look around for the single to get the catalog number right now. |
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Name: Chuck Iverson From: Sunnyvale Time: 1999-11-03 11:09:23 Comments: Just a change of pace note. [AIR TRAVEL] vol. 8 release was a top ten song in the San Fran. area. Payola must have been alive here. Has What'd I say?, ever been released in stereo with the 45 edit? I have several with extended opening instrumental segments. I enjoy the recent banter on BSN. The stereo vs mono argument comes down to this for me. Stereo gets us closer to the original tape, especially if mixed down to mono. Was Chances are really binaurel? Sounds cleaner and truer than that. Remember keep it short! |
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Name: Steve Baird From: the Mardi Gras state Time: 1999-11-03 11:36:43 Comments: beetlefan, I have to tell you that if you don't have that Frogman CD, you ought to buy it before it's deleted! Although it is missing one or two of Henry's lower charters, it is indeed the only source for a few of his others. The sound quality is very good. Speaking of New Orleans soul, ahem, I know I'm not supposed to do this, but, I know that there was at one time an import CD of Ernie K-Doe's material. I've heard the copy that a guy here in Baton Rouge has. I've never seen this one in stores or anywhere on the web. If someone can acquire this one for me I would be in your debt. On to other Newawlins
music you just gotta have if you don't already: |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-03 12:43:19 Comments: Chuck, HUH? Mono/stereo? Sure you worded your post correctly?...No, "What'd I Say" was never released in stereo in single form but a fellow poster did assemble one a few months ago. Steve, what "Frogman" CD would that be? |
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Name: Jay Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-11-03 13:20:29 Comments: beetlefan: Clarence "Frogman" Henry cd released in 1994, MCA-Chess CHD-9346, 18 tracks. It's still available at CDNOW for $9.99. |
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Name: Bob Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 1999-11-03 20:54:04 Comments: Anyone know if the Elvis Presley TV appearances have ever been released on CD? I have a box set from the early 80's on LP. 1 record has all 6 Dorsey Brothers, Milton Berle, Steve Allen, and of course Ed Sullivan. While we're on the subject, Are all available on video? I have bits and pieces from different VHS tapes but not complete. Bob |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 1999-11-04 05:01:17 Comments: To M.C.: The archives are fantastic, BUT, I'd hate to have their updating process blur your focus on the 3rd Edition. I wouldn't want ANYTHING to distract you (...mother nature calls? .....well, uh.... hmmmm..., o.k., we'll understand) from an A.S.A.P. publication date. I'm sure the non-accessible 1998/99 archives are safe and sound on a file somewhere. I'd even vote to delay the Jan.-Mar. newsletter by 3 months (or eliminate it entirely!), if that would achieve an earlier release (like January???) of the book. Let me remind BSN subscribers that Mike has indicated that the new book will include over 1,000 new, unpublished reviews and the Jan.-Mar. newsletter will probably contain a little over 100. Which would you choose? ..... Nooooo contest! Keep on truckin' --- long live BSN!!! |
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Name: YOSSI TAL From: From Israel Time: 1999-11-04 07:43:58 Comments: Hi my name is Yossi Tal I have an old MARANTZ SR 1100 receiver with 2 blown up speaker power stages . Does any one could tell me where to extract from ,the appropiate schematic in order to fix it by myself ? Thank you very much Yossi Tal |
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Name: Steve Baird From: Ipanema Time: 1999-11-04 09:24:51 Comments: RE What'd I Say single version in stereo. A week or so ago, I heard this song in stereo on the radio FM 95.7 in New Orleans. I do not want to suggest anything about whether this is any different from the version of the song that we already have, but the station played part 1 only. It did not end abruptly, suggesting that there wasn't somebody at the station waiting for the exact instant to press a stop button. Yet, as I recall, our stereo versions of Parts 1 & 2 of the song merge together to form a continuum. Other than this difference from what the 45 was like, is the inferrence to be drawn that the present versions of the song are apocryphal? Speaking of songs that have 2 parts on two sides of a 45, there are two I enjoy, but which are not offered on CD all that often: Bill Doggett's great Honky Tonk, and Phil Upchurch's You Can't Sit Down. Although I have each of these (the Doggett on one of the Original Sound volumes, the Upchurch on an Ace Teen Beat volume), I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where I might find the Doggett song spliced together (as is What'd I Say) and in better sound. To Marty Wekser: a million thank yous for your efforts to round up The Daddy-O's GOT A
MATCH? Should your efforts be fructiferous, I will place an order for 10 copies of the CD on which it's
included. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-04 12:23:55 Comments: What'd I Say - The music parts of the song are identical in mono and stereo - Part 2 is totally identical, and Part 1 is just edited in mono. However, the middle "party" section is different in stereo. I would guess the mono has that edited in from a different take or something... |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-04 14:52:27 Comments: Part 2 of Mix Magazine's interview with Tom Dowd is on the web. http://www.mixonline.com/current/1999/features/11mixinterview.html . One interesting thing to note - Muscle Shoals was strictly mono when Aretha did "I've Never Loved A Man" but Dowd took a 4 track machine down there for the sessions. After that was done they went back to mono (no mention on when they got stereo/multitrack on a regular basis). |
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Name: Jay Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-11-04 15:11:55 Comments: Steve, Bill Doggett's Honky Tonk Pts 1 & 2 are one after the other on the King R&B box that came out in 95. However, the two songs aren't spliced together, there is a fade out and then a track break in between. The sound quality is great though. |
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Name: Groovin' Garrett From: Detroit area Time: 1999-11-04 15:51:54 Comments: Looking for "The River Is Wide" by The Forum (#45, 1967) on CD, either mono or stereo (never seen it in true stereo, original Mala LP was rechanneled). Any leads? |
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Name: Jeff Time: 1999-11-04 16:58:16 Comments: I have good news to report. The Rolling Stones "Strictly Stereo 1964-1969" is out. I can't imagine any stereo collector being unhappy with this CD. All of the hits known to exist in true stereo are here...21 tracks in all. Also, there was some discussion about the stereo version of "Snoopy's Christmas" on this board a few months back. I found a budget CD at a Camelot store today. It's "Snoopy's Christmas by the Royal Guardsmen" It has a 1993 date. It's from CEMA Special Products, number 2519. It not only has the title song in stereo, but also the stereo versions of "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" and "The Return of the Red Baron." (Only the sound effects are in stereo on "Return.") I picked up "The Best of the Norfolk Sound" (Varese Sarabande 302 066 065 2) and the version of Jimmy Soul's "If You Wanna Be Happy" is the widest and cleanest I've ever heard. It was worth buying the CD for that track alone. The other tracks on the disc sound at least as good, if not better, than on previous releases. And a note for Garrett: I've never heard the Forum's version of "The River Is Wide" in stereo, nor have I found a copy on CD. I have a mono copy of the original album on Mirr. Thanks for reminding me of another song I have to transfer off vinyl to CD. On that note, I could use some advice from fellow collectors. I either need a better soundcard or different software to clean up some of the records I've been dubbing. The software for my CD writer can be programmed to "declick." When I use that mode the clicks are gone, but the sound that's left is horrible...it doesn't sound much better than RealAudio. Most of my records are in decent condition, so I've opted to trade off some pops and clicks for the better fidelity. If anyone who has been doing this for awhile has had success getting rid of surface noise and maintaining good sound, I'd like to know what you're using. Thanks in advance. |
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Name: Martin (Marty) G. Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 1999-11-04 17:10:40 Comments: To Steve B. & all: I've paired down my big want list to a top 250 now (then down to 25 at a time). Many thanks to Joe B. for helping me find a great song from 1981 by a group called Diesel. That group should have had more hits. I've been talking with others in the Houston area and it sounds like several folks may be getting CDRs for presents this year, so I'll try to "visit" them and if I can make any "stereo finds, synchups, widenings, etc." |
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Name: Bob Casner From: Venice, California Time: 1999-11-04 17:48:56 Comments: Re: the foregoing message - please tell us WHERE the Rolling Stones Strictly Stereo 1964-1969 can be obtained! |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-04 18:42:06 Comments: Jeff, re: A few notes on the Stones CD. First, please post a tracklisting - if I already have everything on it I don't see any reason to pick it up. Also, how is the sound compared to the London CD releases, ie, the import Hot Rocks 1...? |
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Name: Graham From: Co Time: 1999-11-04 19:38:27 Comments: Hi just got the new stones CD Strictly Stereo. But first,,, I bought an album in '86 in Germany of "stones" greatest hits 1964-69. It was the best quality record of any stones I've heard on record for the time. This CD has the same tracks and sound. The record might have been the source. CD of course sounds cleaner. I give it a B. Tracks 1. Its all over now/excellent, 2. Times is on my side/ok (at start might have surface noise, 3. Heart of Stone/excellent, 4 thru 11 excellent. 4. The Last time 5. Play with Fire, 6. (I can't get no) Satisfaction, 7. Get off my Cloud, 8. 19th Nervous Breakdown, 9. Paint if Black 10. Mothers Little Helper (in My opinion one of the best quality songs on the CD), 11. Lady Jane, 12. Have you seen your Mother Baby Standing in the Shadow, Surface noise or distortion in left speaker, echoy and distant (fair). 13-21 excellent. 13. Under My Thumb, 14. Out of Time (long version)(my favorite track), 15. Dandelion, 16. Ruby Tuesday 17. She's a rainbow, 18. Jumpin Jack Flash, 19. Street Fighting Man, 20. Honky Tonk Woman, 21. Gimme Shelter (all Stereo) |
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Name: Carl Shell From: New Jersey Time: 1999-11-04 23:01:08 Comments: Greetings to all. I just have to warn you about one of the worst cd's I have ever bought (from a sound quality standpoint.) Sal Mineo "ALL OF MY BEST" on Sting Music Limited. Bought used but sealed in a normal record store. The artwork isn't bad and it has stereo plastered all over it. Not one track is in stereo! Worse, although the liner notes are there, but very brief, the cd itself sounds as though it were dubbed from a twenty nine dollar cassette player. The 23 songs, originally on Epic, if indeed in stereo and much more important to me, high fidelity, would be a nice compliment to other kitschy discs of that era. Alas, this one is a true klinker. While the address listed is Sting Music Limited, P.O. Box 153, Sweden, the copy right is 1987 String (sic) Music Ltd, Czechosloavakia....Do not pay 99 cents for this (I paid 7.99) as it is totally worthless except for the photos on the cover. On a totally different note, does anyone know anything about a possible Beach Boys tie in to a single on Capitol early sixties called PAMELA JEAN by the Survivors? Is it the beach boys under a different name, or produced by one of the Wilsons? Also did the beach boys sing back up on Wayne Newton's COMING ON STRONG, and Pat Boone's BEACH GIRL? |
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Name: Randy Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-11-04 23:00:30 Comments: Has anyone heard the stereo Cozy Cole LP (Love 500S) with "Topsy I & II" and "Turvy I & II"? Is it true stereo? How's the sound quality generally? |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 1999-11-05 01:54:22 Comments: TO: Bob C., one of the places you can get the STONES' "Strictly Stereo '64 - '69" is through DisCollector at: www.discol.com then click on [Top 10 Sizzlers]. |
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Name: Dave Breathe Time: 1999-11-05 06:17:58 Comments: Yep, it is the Beach Boys (under a different name) on PAMELA JEAN by the Survivors |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-05 08:57:58 Comments: Re: Pamala Jean No, Pamela Jean is NOT The Beach Boys in disguise. Brian Wilson produced the session and does sing on the record, but thats it. DISCOVERIES magazine did an article on the song a few years ago, and interviewed the lead singer of The Survivors, who were a top club group in LA, and had a deal with Valiant, then Capitol. So its Brian and the rest of the Survivors group on "Pamala Jean". The funny thing is that boy, is that song a Dion and The Belmonts rip off!!!! Great Song!! Also, someone asked about Wayne Newtons "Comin On Too Strong". That record was a total departure from Waynes Adult sound, and the guys responsible for it were Bruce Johnston and Terry Melcher, who produced it for Bobby Darins production company. Wayne was not signed directly to Capitol, he was signed to Bobbys production company. "Comin On Too Strong" is really a Bruce and Terry rip off rather than a Beach Boys rip off. The song was released for about a week in 1964, the pulled. You can hear it in beautiful sound on the Capitol Collectors series Cd, "Wayne Newton". Hope this helps!! Mikey |
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Name: Jerry J Griffith From: Canada Time: 1999-11-05 11:42:17 Comments: Hello all. Me again. Can anyone give me a review of the Collectables CD from 1994 on THE OHIO EXPRESS. Is it all stereo? There doesn't seem to be much out there on this group. I would really appreciate a decent package done on them. |
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Name: Joe Strigle From: Burbank Time: 1999-11-05 15:26:53 Comments: Thanx for the stereo stones info. I have ordered and am eagerly awaiting arrival. Anyone know of a CD version of NO GO SHOWBOAT by THE TIMERS? It was a Reprise 45 at one time. Also, I am searching for LAND OF OZ by LE CIRQUE, produced by Leon Russell. Any CD info? |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-05 19:22:46 Comments: For Joe Strigle: "No Go Showboat" by The Timers appears on the "Gary Usher-Hot Rod USA" Cd Usher 201. This is a bootleg Cd, and the track is in mono off a clean 45. By the Way, there *was* no band called the Timers, they were just another psudeo name for Gary Usher and his studio guys.....same as The Knights, The Wheel Men, The Sunsets, The Superstocks, ect. Trust me, I'm Mr. Surf 45...... Hope this helps. Mikey |
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Name: Jeff Time: 1999-11-06 10:17:52 Comments: I never made it online yesterday, but I see that Graham posted a track listing for the Rolling Stones "Strictly Stereo" CD. Good-quality stereo versions of most of the tracks showed-up previously on various European and Japanese CD's, but to my knowledge, this is the first time we've had high-fidelity stereo versions of "19th Nervous Breakdown," "The Last Time" and "Have You Seen Your Mother Baby." The tracks showed-up on a CD called "Dartford Renegades" several years ago, but the disc sounded terrible. My copy of "Strictly Stereo" was ordered from DisCollector. Also, thanks to all of you who responded with suggestions on software for cleaning up my vinyl dubs for transfer to CD. |
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Name: Charles Ellis From: Staten Island, New York Time: 1999-11-06 17:53:59 Comments: Does anyone know if there are import CDs on either Gale Garnett or Barbara Lewis? I have all 3 of the domestically released Lewis CDs, but I have yet to see any Gale Garnett CDs. Also, is there anything out there on the late 60's girl rock group "Cake"? Lastly, any word on the upcoming UK Dusty Springfield boxed set, and if so, which CD dealers will have it?? |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-06 18:01:15 Comments: Jeff, re: "The Last Time" and "19th" have been floating around in high quality stereo for about a year now. I can't say I've heard the version of "Have You Seen..." on the new CD, but every version I've heard of this in stereo is pretty poor. BTW, I just heard a boot version of that song today (in mono), and I think I finally know what Keith meant when he said the rhythm section was buried in the final mix. On the boot version, the drums are *IN YOUR FACE*. I don't know what happened in the end, but... |
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Name: Chuck Iverson From: Sunnyvale, Ca. Time: 1999-11-06 21:43:07 Comments: Another question, Did P.S. I Love You by the Beattles ever appear in Stereo? Has anyone picked up a Rhino CD called More New Orleans music? I would like to know if Te TA TE TA TA by Ernie K-Doe is in stereo like previous releases? Also picked up the Ultimate Beachboys Christmas disc at the flea market today. Nice to see good stereo content from Capital, with two Lil' Saint Nick recordings LP & single versions, {jingles & bells etc]. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-06 23:44:34 Comments: P.S. I Love You has never shown up in stereo. Add to that the following other tracks: Love Me Do (both versions), She Loves You (sorry, sync up with alternate take doesn't count), I'll Get You, and the second half to I Am The Walrus. Please Please Me can be found in stereo, but it's assembled from different takes from the mono. You Know My Name should be added as well - it *is* in stereo on Anthology 2, but a different edit - *excluding* some of the song that's on the mono mix. Only A Northern Song can *finally* be taken off the 'never been in stereo' list... |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-07 02:13:54 Comments: I haven't gotten a copy of the "Strictly Stereo" cd, yet, but I've heard the songs on it. "The Last Time" and "19th Nervous Breakdown" are killers, though "The Last Time" is almost 20 seconds shorter than the single version. I don't have any way to EQ the two versions to see where they differ, but the stereo version may just be clipped off at the end. "Have You Seen Your Mother.." has some background noise, but without headphones, it's not noticeable. All three, and the other 18 tracks are well worth having, in stereo. I just got a cd by THE SUNSHINE COMPANY, called, well, The Sunshine Company, which has all three of their charted hits, in stereo, and sounding pretty darn good, for lp transfers. Apparently, the individuals recording this forgot to turn off the recording, when through with the first lp, so we get to hear the turntable doing it's thing, between tracks 11 and 12. Kind of cool, actually. The sound ranges from good to excellent. The first track "Up Up & Away" has a noticeable hum in the background, but the "engineers" quickly get rid of it, for the rest of the cd. This band wasn't too bad. Some nice tunes, here. (23 tracks). REV-OLA CREV061cd, British import. |
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Name: Dave Daugherty From: Dublin, OH Time: 1999-11-07 09:16:32 Comments: Luke, regarding your comments about "Please Please Me"; It's my understanding that the stereo and mono mixes of the song are derived from the same take. In the mono mix, John's vocal flub in the final verse was replaced with the correct words from the first verse. These edits were never done to the stereo LP mix for whatever reason. I've done this edit to the stereo track and it matches perfectly to what was done on the mono single. On page 207 of "Every Little Thing" by William McCoy and Mitchell McGeary, the authors write "Before the track was released, engineer Norman Smith made several edits on the vocal track to eliminate a few garbled words from John Lennon. This corrected recording was mixed to mono and put out as a single. However, the original un-edited twin-track tape, with the mistakes intact, was used as the master for the stero edition of Please Please Me and for all stereo reissues of the song. In stereo, John sings the lyric "I know I never even try girl". In mono, the correct words "I know YOU never even try girl" were spliced back into the track from the first verse so the song plays correctly". |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-07 12:18:47 Comments: Peter Guralnick, in "Careless Love: The Unmaking of Elvis Presley", writes of EP meeting Roy Hamilton at Chips Moman's American Studios during sessions for "From Elvis In Memphis". Hamilton was recording for Moman's own label at the time. Does anyone have any information on Roy's waxings? Were these ever issued, and have they turned up on CD? On another note, in addition to the Stones' stereo CD, I've ordered the "Definitive Steve Lawrence" disc from DisCollector. It DOES have the King-Goffin Columbia songs recorded by both Lawrence alone, and Steve & Eydie. It's a 31-tracker, so should have his work from a bunch of labels. Will review in the future. |
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Name: John Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 1999-11-07 15:53:25 Comments: Dick Bartley played the stereo "The Last Time" (Stones) last night (11/06/99). Can't remember which hour. Related query...who's the "Dr. Dave" he has referred to several times recently (the doctor has supposedly supplied newly-unearthed stereo mixes or stereo remixes of some songs--one coming to mind is the Beach Boys' "Barbara Ann"). Semi-related...what with all the new digital technology around I'm wondering if the refeed of the first three hours of Bartley's Saturday night show (7pm-10pm ET is refed 12am-3am ET so every time zone can take the satellite from 7pm-12am local time) is done by some high-tech digital storage gizmo as opposed to reel-to-reel tape? Or does he use DAT? The sound quality last night in the 10pm MT hour (refeed) didn't seem any different from the 9pm MT hour (live). |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-07 16:21:47 Comments: Dave, re: The stereo mix of Please Please Me was assembled from an edit of takes 16, 17 and 18. The mono mix was assembled from an edit of unknown takes - either the session sheet from that day doesn't exist or it was not noted. Another thing to note about the stereo mix is the harmonica pieces. They were recorded as edit pieces, but if you listen on the stereo mix (in the vocals channel), you can hear a lot of the instrumental track. One reasoning is that the tape with the harmonica edits was lost at the time and so the entire mono mix was edited in at those sections. See Joe Brennan's web site for more info. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-07 16:23:28 Comments: Dave, re: The stereo mix of Please Please Me was assembled from an edit of takes 16, 17 and 18. The mono mix was assembled from an edit of unknown takes - either the session sheet from that day doesn't exist or it was not noted. Another thing to note about the stereo mix is the harmonica pieces. They were recorded as edit pieces, but if you listen on the stereo mix (in the vocals channel), you can hear a lot of the instrumental track. One reasoning is that the tape with the harmonica edits was lost at the time and so the entire mono mix was edited in at those sections. See Joe Brennan's web site for more info. |
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Name: Dave Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 1999-11-07 18:20:22 Comments: Luke, interesting to read your "take" on "Please Please Me". I may well have learned something, but all past information and my own ears tell me I'm not so sure it rings true. I visited Brennan's site and he puts forth an interesting theory. In terms of what Lewisohn wrote, it sounds like the information available to him is vague at best for the stereo mix of the song. This bears some further research. I'll let you know. |
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Name: Dave Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 1999-11-07 18:18:21 Comments: Correction! What Lewisohn had available to him on the MONO mix of the song was somewhat vague. Sorry for the typo. |
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Name: Joel Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 1999-11-07 21:17:44 Comments: Help! Help! I'm becoming a mono fan, and a vinyl addict. I've started to buy original 45s of songs I do and don't have, and the sound is great on many of them. Nothing has ever equalled the power of the 45 mono version of the Beatles' Revolution. There's also a bass pulse not present on CD on many 45s. Just got mono 45 of Neil Diamond's Brother Love's Travelling Salvation Show, and it has a more muscular sound than the stereo version. Thanks to other contributors for influencing me to get the Creeque Alley, Touch Me and Magic Carpet Ride 45s. |
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Name: Carl Shell From: Dover, New Jersey Time: 1999-11-07 23:21:41 Comments: I had just purchased a Charley Cd when reading a review in one of the backordered newsletters about a Sun reissue of rockabilly rarities being very bad, an F, to be exact. One cut was even dubbed from a cracked record! So it was with tripidation that I inserted the Charley Sun reissue into my cd player to see what would happen. P>What a pleasant surprise! Although this cd, THE BEST OF SUN ROCKABILLY, is of course mono, Charley CD 16, by the way, this 1986 issue is remarkably good. No scratches, hiss (in excess) or pops. The sound, while not as good as the AVI discs which obviously had a lot of work put into them....is clear, enjoyable and fullsome. I think this might not be a run of the mill Charly release. For one thing, The graphics, inside and out are not cheesy, but elegant in their own way. The disc itself says Manufactured in France, on it and the source for the tapes is listed as MOVIEPLAY PORTUGUESA. Billy Riley, Sonny Burgess, Ray Smith, Warren Smith, Carl Perkins, etc. P> In the past I have had junk from Charly, but this one is totally ok. I guess I was just lucky picking this up for $7.99 in a clearance rack, with Joe Jones, and Charley and Ray on (shudder) Collectables. The Charley and Ray sound is so so. Also on Collectables is an excellent sounding cd by Ral Donner. I have the original lp and the cd sounds better! P> One question, Marty Cooper single THE INDIANA GIRL, anyone ever hear of this tune besides me, ever released on cd? |
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Name: Steve Baird From: Blair County PA Time: 1999-11-08 08:58:31 Comments: To Carl Schel - As in the case of collecting in my vinyl days, I have generally found recordings from Europe to be of high quality. Since I collect all kinds of music, including classical, I am aware that most collectors of classical music also knew that EMI's British pressings always sounded better than the Angels that were pressed here; the same was true of British Decca vs the London LPs. The Charly CD you spoke of just goes to show that the Brits often do deserve a "good show." To Joel G. I have
always maintained that pure analog recordings have the potential to sound better than any recording
processed into digital -- whether from a tape or live performance. I was conversing with another collector
about the Jefferson Airplane album, Surrealistic Pillow. We both agreed that the RCA engineers who put
together the various digital releases should be put before a firing squad. |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-08 12:04:01 Comments: Re: Please Please Me... I know what the experts say about the stereo Please Please Me being an edit of 3 takes. however, I have always believed my ears. I think its only the MONO single release that was an edit, as George Martin always did. On the stereo LP track, I think its a complete, unedited take...number one, it would make NO sense to edit the thing 3 times and LEAVE an obvious vocal goof!!. Number two, the whole "Please Please Me" LP was recorded , MIXED, and rwady for release in one day!!! So there really wasnt time to do much editing, if any. Number three, it was only the mono version that anybody really cared about when they recorded the LP. Listening to the stereo LP, it appears to be just the best take of every song. The backround noise and cymbals dont change levels like they do on "She Loves You" (7 edits) "All My Loving" (at least 3 edits) ect. Thats the tip off of the edits they did, which you can hear if you listen closely with headphones. I like the stereo version of the PPM Lp MUCH better than the mono. Its just too bad the GM didnt do a real stereo spread when he recorded them...he just used the stereo machine as a two track so he could mix the instros and the vocals together later with maximum seperation. Mikey |
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Name: Richard Moritz Time: 1999-11-08 12:58:41 Comments: "The River is Wide" by the Forum was on an Audiofidelity disc CD-SOS-6007 "Super oldies of the 60's". It's in very muddy mono, probably copied from disc. This is the same cd which had Jan and Dean's Challenge "Heart and Soul" in stereo. Released about 1986, I got it in a cut-out bin in the early 90's. This disc seems to be the only cd transfer of the Forum song. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-08 14:13:52 Comments: Mike wrote: "Its just too bad the GM didnt do a real stereo spread when he recorded them...he just used the stereo machine as a two track so he could mix the instros and the vocals together later with maximum seperation." George Martin recorded the early Beatles on a two-track tape only to mix them into better MONO. He had no intention of mixing to any stereo at that time, and probably never would have if EMI's Capitol Records hadn't demanded it. They were all angry when Capitol issued Beatles music in simulated stereo and God know what else! The "She Loves You" single was edited from different takes because the "multitrack" master was accidentally "wiped", or erased. That's why only a mono copy of it exists. Anything else is a re-recording, and they did re-record the song in German. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-08 14:21:01 Comments: By the way, hats off to Joel Goldenberg! At least HE understands what I've been trying to say for years! The 45 MONO single sounds powerful! And, Joel, you can get the mono Beatles "Revolution" on the official, "Beatles CD Singles Collection", as well as the other Beatles singles in MONO. You can also get the Mamas and the Papas "Creaque Alley", and Steppenwolf song, "Magic Carpet Ride" in mono on CD. The stereo version of "Revolution" just doesn't cut it. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-08 14:32:48 Comments: Mike, beetle, re: A few notes. First of all, the entire PPM LP was not recorded and mixed in one day. Yes, 10 of 14 cuts were done in one day, but the two singles (Love Me Do, Please Please Me and B-sides) were done before hand. Also, the main session (with the other 10 songs) was done Feb 11, 1963. An overdub session was held on Feb 20, and the album was not mixed until Feb 25. As far as editing goes - the intro to I Saw Here Standing There was edited in, and I don't see why PPM wouldn't be an edit - the She Loves You Edits were *bad*. Just because you don't notice them in PPM doesn't mean they are not there. The session sheets clearly say it was an edit, so... As far as the "George Martin wouldn't have mixed them to stereo" debate - nope. Capitol didn't hit the scene for close to a year but the PPM LP was mixed for stereo the *same session* as the mono. And, yes, George Martin was there. PPM came out in mono March 22 and in stereo April 26. With The Beatles, later that year, came out in mono and stereo the same day - November 22. That's still well before Capitol got involved with LPs. For the record, many tracks were issued in true stereo in the UK and fake stereo in the US. I don't think the song "A Hard Day's Night" was released in stereo in the US until the "20 Greatest Hits" LP, which was 1980 or 1982. Go figure... And, BTW, I quite like those wide early Beatles' mixes:-) |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-08 14:51:37 Comments: A couple more notes. "All My Loving" was a complete take, not an edit. It was take 14, which was an overdub onto take 11. Also, as far as She Loves You goes, while the finished take was edit, I can't see why it would be because the master was lost (which is the official answer). The early edits were certainly just to get a mix of the best takes. The edit at "Pride can hurt you to" *might* be different - since the tone changes so greatly one theory is that the single master was stretched/damaged at some point so a disc dub was edited in for that section. Don't know if that's true or not, but... At any rate, the two track master of She Loves You was lost sometime after the session in 1963. EMI had started to keep session tapes early in 1963 (the early session tapes for songs like Love Me Do were quickly thrown out/erased), so who knows what happened to the tape... |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-08 16:06:13 Comments: Re: Beatles: I respectfully disagree about "All My Loving" being all one take. I'm almost positive that the guitar solo was edited in from another take.. On my copy of the "Meet The Beatles" CD, as the solo ends, virtually all tape noise ends, only to start again one beat later when the vocal comes back in. Sure sounds like an edit point to me!! If Im not mistaken, they also did this on "A Hard Days Night". |
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Name: tom moulton From: new york city Time: 1999-11-08 21:31:31 Comments: Hi Mike I have called you several times and i never get a response back.The last time I called you was to tell you that the KITKATS was finally finished and will be coming out next week.I wanted to send you some cdr's I made of it and i wasn't sure of your address.Also LOUIE LOUIE is finished and ANGEL BABY if you rathee i didn't bother you with this i won't...take care tom |
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Name: Joe Strigle From: Burbank Time: 1999-11-08 22:29:57 Comments: The recent comments by Joel and Beetlefan extolling the virtues of those mono 45's we all love/hate brings to mind a topic that needs discussing -- the mastering engineers. These guys were wizards. After receiving the "final" studio masters, they'd roll off the bottoms and highs, EQ to eliminate extraneous noise, and compress the track to the edge of disortion to add "punch". All of this was to insure the record would jump out of the radio at you. For that reason, CDs will never sound like the old 45s -- just as the 45s never sounded like the old 78s -- and so on, and so on. As for me, I'll take a well-mastered CD over a 45 anytime! ... So (another subject here) what do you think of remixing to the inevitable 5.1 surround mode? It'll be tougher to rationalize a mono mix which only utilizes one of the 5 speakers (and maybe the subwoofer if it's not mixed too thin). |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-09 00:09:36 Comments: Mike, re: Well, the session info clearly says one take, so... Listening to the copy on the Red CD I don't hear an edit after the guitar break. And what do you mean, "Meet The Beatles" CD - no such (official) CD exists. As for AHDN, same deal - all one take (take 9). Can't say I hear any edits there either... |
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Name: Dylan From: OR Time: 1999-11-09 03:12:49 Comments: I have been looking everywhere for a Compact Disk version of Bobby Bland's albums, "Reflections in Blue," and "Come Fly with Me". I know Reflections in blue was released on CD sometime in 1994, but it's no longer avalible. Come Fly With Me has never been re-released (at least, to my knowledge). There seem to be a lot of really good Bobby Bland albums that aren't on CD..... I have a CD-R drive, but it would still be nice to have studio copies of the albums. I would like to know if and when what ever record label those albums are on now is going to re-release them. If anyone knows, please tell me. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-09 08:16:19 Comments: Re: Bobby "Blue" Bland. "Reflections In Blue" is in print on BGO's twofer of "Get On Down" and "Reflections In Blue" and this CD is still in print. "Come Fly With Me" has never been on CD according to Muze (www.muze.com). |
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Name: Jesus From: San Juan, PR Time: 1999-11-09 09:35:06 Comments: More Beatles The covers of the OMR Beatle boxed set sleeves are reproductions of the boxes where the tapes are stored. On "With The Beatles" for example, it says: Original MASTER Tape Speed 15 Date Recorded or Copied 1 Nov 63 STEREO Remix From Twin Track To Stereo Equalized And Compressed Each box has a log of all the times the tape has been used. Other interesting things I find on some of the others are: On AHDN: Title Of Work THE SONGS FOR THE FILM A HARD DAYS NIGHT On For Sale: Remix f. 4Track On Help!: Stereo Remix - EQ.&Compressed and on the Dizzy Miss Lizzy track: *Tape damaged replaced by copy from Safety Copy (initials) 16.6.76 (Which might be connected to why the ADD Remix of the song on the CD is so different from the STEREO mix?) On Revolver: EQ & Limited with V.B.C. and on the Tommorrow Never Knows track: This title may need to be brought down 3 dB's from rest of titles On SgtPLHCB: Copy from 4Track Recording Date 24 Nov 66 - 21 April 67 (with the first time a copy being made from this tape on 22 April 67) plus instructions on the run out groove etc etc On Let It Be it says: STEREO MODEL MASTER ||FOR CUTTING ONLY (Use original master for tape copies-AR 16216) Which makes me think its not the true stereo master (I wonder which one they used for the CD too) (On most of the others either it says original or copy from twin track or 4 track depending on what multitrack tape the album was made) For Luke: I think the edit of AHDN is in the solo where G. Martin played on the track Btw, the stereo AHDN and All My Loving in the Red CD are a 1993 REMIX, not the original STEREO. (I like those wide stereo mixes) For Beetlefan: I agree, the MONO Revolution rocks ;) And last but not least: When I'm 64 and It's Only Northern Song are NOT in MONO on the Yellow Submarine's DVD mono track (the others songs are mono there) and the 5.01 remixes on the movie soundtrack sound different from the 5.01 isolated music track. Heh collecting myriad variations can be fun. If only they made all the previously released versions available instead of some in mono some in stereo some only on remixed after the fact versions while the original is not and now, some in 5.01... ;) |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-09 11:05:57 Comments: Jesus, re: As far as I know, AHDN on the Red CD is not a remix, but rather a remaster of the original stereo mix. If it is a remix, it's identical to the original stereo mix. All My Loving is indeed a remix, with the vocals more or less centered and the rhythm track moved in slightly. In both cases, the editing is not any different from the original issues (there isn't any). George Martin's piano piece on AHDN isn't an edit. However, (while it's not explicitly mentioned in Lewisohn) the solo is an overdub. As another note, the BBC version of the song *does* have and edit for the solo - the solo is simply edited in from the studio version. It sounds pretty silly! |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-09 11:00:01 Comments: Jesus, re: As far as I know, AHDN on the Red CD is not a remix, but rather a remaster of the original stereo mix. If it is a remix, it's identical to the original stereo mix. All My Loving is indeed a remix, with the vocals more or less centered and the rhythm track moved in slightly. In both cases, the editing is not any different from the original issues (there isn't any). George Martin's piano piece on AHDN isn't an edit. However, (while it's not explicitly mentioned in Lewisohn) the solo is an overdub. As another note, the BBC version of the song *does* have and edit for the solo - the solo is simply edited in from the studio version. It sounds pretty silly! |
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Name: Jesus From: San Juan, PR Time: 1999-11-09 11:45:16 Comments: Luke: When I compared both HDN's there were differences. Its subtle but its there, instrumental balances and reverbs are different. But it's very subtle so you have to AB carefully. Using an oop discriminator helps cus you can listen for sounds that are partially obscured in the mix. Without that I probably wouldn't have concluded they were different. Anyway, I could be mistaken, so I'll do the comparison round again cus "It's all in the mind you know" ;) BTW since you're the man to ask :) Where can I get We Love You in true stereo? I have the STONES singles collection CD and it's in mono there. |
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Name: tom moulton From: new york city Time: 1999-11-09 12:11:50 Comments: A BIG BIG Thanks to Bob Feldman for keeping the multi on He's so fine by the Angels.Now we have a sync up of He's so fine floating around by the Chiffons.It is the same track without the lead vocals(dbl)i think this is the only song that i know of that had both girl groups singing on it.Not everything Gets trashed or in a flood or fire.There is always hope |
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Name: David R. Modny Time: 1999-11-09 12:43:06 Comments: Re: All My Loving - Luke is correct in stating (regardless of Lewisohn's book) that the backing track of "All My Loving" is one complete take. Isolating the backing track from the original wide twin-track mix, clearly shows it to be seamless. BTW, the take 14 overdub was simply Paul's second vocal. Also, I know the question was directed at Luke, but, "We Love You" is available in stereo on the import More Hot Rocks 2 CD ( the original London/Decca...not Klein's ABKCO travesties). |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-09 13:54:41 Comments: To Joe Strigle: 45 RPM singles are often mixed differently. That's what we mean when we say that the mono singles sound powerful. They were mixed that way. If the stereo "Revolution" had been mixed to sound like the mono, it would sound as good. As far as mixing to 5.1 is concerned, some things should be left alone. Any remix to 5.1 should be considered a novelty, not the definitive version, as with the recent "Yellow Submarine" DVD. And, let's face facts, the vast majority of music will be remixed. I can see SCAD, but no DVD 5.1. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-09 15:03:42 Comments: Beetle - you really think a lot of stuff will be remixed? I guess I'm thinking not. Anyway... As far as single mixes, sometimes they didn't even get those right, a la "Have You Seen Your Mother". The alternate mix that I heard of that song (I'm not sure if it was complete, and the fidelity wasn't the greatest, but...) was really amazing - the drums just attack. |
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Name: David R. Modny Time: 1999-11-09 15:20:25 Comments: More "All My Loving" stuff - Upon listening to the track again, and knowing that the backing track WAS recorded in one complete pass, and ALSO knowing that the song was subjected to further overdubs. It is quite "possible" that in that take 14 overdub, that along with Paul's second vocal being overdubbed that, while not an edit, the guitar SOLO could have also been overdubbed. The live overdubs were done as the tape was being copied....so there's no way to rule out that Paul's vocal overdub could have gone on one side of the twin-track, while the guitar solo could have been overdubbed (upon listening, this actually sounds possible) over the other. In Lewisohn's book there's a picture of the track sheet, but it cuts off during the vital information ! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-09 16:09:16 Comments: Luke, that was a typo. I meant that most music *will NOT* be remixed to 5.1. So we are in agreement. Sorry for the caps. They were just used for emphasis. |
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Name: Marty Blaise Time: 1999-11-09 17:56:22 Comments: I am looking for true stereo information and "genre" information (if it's hard rock, soft rock, jazz, etc.) on the following artists and groups. My guess is that all recorded in stereo, although possibly with various single and album mixes. They are: Balance, Blackfoot, Paul Carrack, Chicago Loop, English Congregation, Franke & the Knockouts, Hotlegs, Ironhorse, Tom Johnston, Larsen-Feiten Band, David Lasley, Ian Matthews, Mac MacAnaly, New England, Nielsen/Pearson, Night, Nite-Liters, Oak, Nigel Olsson, John Phillips, Photoglo, Q, Rainbow, Lee Ritenour, Road Apples, Roxy Music, Phil Seymour, Silver Condor, Silvetti, Slave, Slide, Smokie, Sneaker, Spider, Michael Stanley Band, Steel Breeze, Switch, Bobby Taylor & Vancouvers, Chris Thompson & Night, Ali Thomson, John Valenti, Billy & The Beaters, Donald Fagen. You can e-mail the info to me at ag5t@hotmail.com so it doesn't tie up this chat area with non-stereo stuff. Thanks. |
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Name: Paul Time: 1999-11-09 18:24:27 Comments: So much talk about The Beatles, I had to get out myunofficial copies of OMR The Beatles First Four UK Albums in Stereo.Listened to PPM, WTB last night and still can't figure why they don't release these things officially. They sure would sell like hot cakes! |
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Name: Carl Shell From: North New Jersey Time: 1999-11-09 22:53:57 Comments: Just like to tell you about a very positive buying experience....I have been trying various mail order and on line cd purveyers...(with mixed results!) The best so far is Tower Records on line. The prices for Ace imports is very reasonable ($12.99) of which I ordered several, INNOCENTS, LAURIE DOO-WOP GROUPS, LAURIE 60'S GROUPS, DALE HAWKINS, WEST COAST GIRLS, and a special order which I thought was rather expensive in comparison ERNIE FREEMAN (23.99) but for which I had been searching for years to locate...for a particular single cut called AFTER SUNSET. They also had the SUPURBS CD for 12.99, and the BRENDA AND THE TABULATIONS CD on Jamie/Guyden (in mono, but sounds great to me anyway!) also for 12.99. All in all, a wonderful package of music! I received an email notification immediately upon ordering which I printed out. Then the next day I got another email telling me my order would be split, with shipments coming from two separate warehouses. Shipping for the entire bundle was just $4.95 (FED EX 2nd DAY AIR). The package was received exactly seven days after placing it, with everything but the special order item. None of the cases were cracked, and there was written instructions on how to return anything that was unsatisfactory for any reason...(same box it was shipped in, etc.) What wonderful service compared to the three to four weeks (and more) that I had to wait previously....A tip of my hat to TOWER RECORDS, a firm with whom I will be conducting further business with! |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 00:18:32 Comments: Does anyone know about the following CD: "Top of the Stax: Twenty Greatest Hits"? Obviously I'm curious about the stereo content, especially "Knock On Wood" and "BABY". BTW, a few notes. There *should* be a stereo master of "634-5789" somewhere, as Stax got a stereo machine in July '65. As for the early Muscle Shoals material ("Land of 1000 Dances", "When A Man Loves A Woman"), I believe they only had a mono machine at least up to "I've Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You" and possibly after that - Tom Dowd used a loaner 4 track. As for "Mustang Sally" and "Everybody Needs Somebody To Love" (both of which are in stereo on LP), I'm betting the second tracks were cut as overdubs, possibly at Atlantic, as the basic tracks are in mono with just female vocals and tambourine off to the side. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 00:18:37 Comments: Does anyone know about the following CD: "Top of the Stax: Twenty Greatest Hits"? Obviously I'm curious about the stereo content, especially "Knock On Wood" and "BABY". BTW, a few notes. There *should* be a stereo master of "634-5789" somewhere, as Stax got a stereo machine in July '65. As for the early Muscle Shoals material ("Land of 1000 Dances", "When A Man Loves A Woman"), I believe they only had a mono machine at least up to "I've Never Loved A Man The Way I Loved You" and possibly after that - Tom Dowd used a loaner 4 track. As for "Mustang Sally" and "Everybody Needs Somebody To Love" (both of which are in stereo on LP), I'm betting the second tracks were cut as overdubs, possibly at Atlantic, as the basic tracks are in mono with just female vocals and tambourine off to the side. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-10 02:38:05 Comments: Luke: those Wicked Pickett stereo tapes were most likely mixed at Atlantic Studios in N.Y. They usually did the early mono mixes at Muscle Shoals despite their being multitracked. They probably wanted to get the singles out first and then mixed them to stereo in N.Y. later for LP. Though Fame had multitrack recorders, they may only have had a mono mixdown deck in service at the time. As for the Beatles PPM album, I stand corrected: George Martin and Norman Smith mixed the tracks to stereo and mono at the same time. But, Sir George is quoted in "The Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn as saying, "The reason I used The stereo machine in twin-track form was simply to make the mono better, to delay the vital decision of submerging the voices into the background. I certainly didn't separate them for people to hear them separate!" This probably explains why there are so many variences/mistakes in those stereo tapes. They just didn't care, people! And you guys are going nuts over finding so many stereo mixes that no one cared about. It has been said that in Britain in the sixties, only mono mattered. Mono was for the masses, stereo for the rich elite who could afford stereo playback. In America, audiophilles and pros wanted stereo and the target audience didn't care. The same is true today with DVD vs. mp3. Face it, most people who get DVD get it for the picture and convenience, not as much for the sound. |
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Name: Carl Shell From: The Garden State Time: 1999-11-10 05:18:53 Comments: Dear Luke, RE; TOP OF THE STAX, TWENTY GREATEST HITS....what a great cd! Not your usual Atlantic run of the mill sonic drek. Copyright reads 1988. Mastering by George Horn at Fantasy, Berkeley. This guy did a great job! I like the whole cd, but the two cuts in particular you asked about Eddie Floyd KNOCK ON WOOD, never sounded better. Clean, good sound. Carla Thomas B-A-B-Y isn't as good. One of the weaker sounding songs on the collection, it sounds like it was remastered from a disc, but cleaned up considerably compared to other issues I have heard. George didn't have much to work with here, I'm afraid. It has that muddy, compressed, under a veil sound Atlantic records of this era seem to have. The sound is stereo, and he did a great job of cleaning it up and making it as good as it's gonna get given what he had to work with. But just listen to Mel and Tim STARTING ALL OVER AGAIN, wow! What a great, clean, open recording, (not to mention supurb performances) also the Emotions SO I CAN LOVE YOU just gorgeous, all the way around. Ditto for Dramatics IN THE RAIN. A disappointment all around is Booker T and MG's GREEN ONIONS. This has a strange beginning, (fades in) not like the original 45 at all. Sound is only so so, compared to some of the other cuts which qualify as master pieces so to speak. Again, I do not blame this compilation producer, I think he did what he could with what he had to work with. All in all, the range is from (in my opinion) from C to A, depending on the cuts. The program quality itself, lifts this to an enjoyment rating of A in my book! |
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Name: Boppin' Brian Website: From: So Cal Time: 1999-11-10 06:04:47 Comments: Lotsa (and therefore confusing & hard to digest !) interesting BEATLE - banter.....forgive this reader if it sounds "out of it" to ask are "OMR" Beatles releases the old (LP !) MFSL series (don't remember a "box set" of these...).... Just typing this up, it's occuring to me that this may be one of those "GRAY" CD reissues, like the Stones stereo CD (Is this realy worth $25 just for a couple of "polished - up" cuts ????). Still the only really decent stereo Beatles CDs I've heard are the Japanese "Beatles Story" & "Another Beatles Story" 3 CD sets ( which may very well be disc dubs -- clean though -- but there's some "electronic" stereo). Are there any "reviews"/rundowns of the "More Hot Rocks" "import" CD(s)? Have the CRAPkco U.S. 2 CD...(well, it does have some stereo not on other U.S. issues, despite drop-outs --"She's a Rainbow" ). Are there any reissues that cover the entire Chess, Hollywood & other steero sessions ? I know there were some Japanese ("fan club"?) LPs in '80s that covered these sessions....what about "gray" area CDs ? Just getting a handle on this "CD-R" stuff.... anyone had any promising results working from a cassette (!!!!) ?... This surely has got to be something that will result in a finished product that leaves a lot to be desired, but there are a couple of things that I really would like to give a "shot".... Would it be too much of a problem with hiss, noise reduction crud, etc. inherent in cassette tape (especially the '80s "HDR" processed EMI "Lost Masters" one I was gonna do...) Realize that this isn't strictly "Stereo-speak" stuff, but I'd appreciate any help.... come to think of it, it could very well be "stereo - related", if someone who has all (I 've got a good 1/4 or so) of the stuff on LPs, Cds, etc. that could be used to make RhiMONO releases into "CD-R" "Stereo NUGGETS" or "Stereo BEG SCREAM & SHOUT" !!! |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 09:59:26 Comments: Beetle, re: As far as stereo "variations/mistakes" go, really the only one on the first two albums is PPM - everything else is just about the same (the mix on Money is slightly different). And as far as George Martin goes - *I* don't care if he didn't care! I prefer the stereo mixes, plain and simple. I don't need somebody telling me "you can't have instruments on one side and vocals on the other"... |
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Name: Groovin' Garrett Time: 1999-11-10 10:41:05 Comments: Re: Roy Hamilton. Hamilton's 1968-1969 recordings for Chips Moman have never appeared on CD, except for one song, "My Peaceful Forest" on an Ace/Kent CD a few years back. None of the other tracks have ever surfaced on CD. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 11:23:59 Comments: One more thing...Fame/Muscle Shoals did *not* have multitrack capabilites at that time. Tom Dowd didn't want to record Aretha's first Atlantic single there because it was strictly mono, so be brought a loaner 4 track machine to use for her sessions. They didn't upgrade (from mono) till sometime after that... |
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Name: Chuck Iverson From: Silicon valley,not S J Time: 1999-11-10 11:50:07 Comments: I am sure glad I asked the Beattle question a few days ago. What a great deal of Stereo info and the like. I feel reborn, Now to my ?, Has anyone picked up Ripete's CD #2199 Walkin' to New Orleans and willing to give highlights. Also Smokey Places is this stereo available anywhere besides the box set? Disc's Vol 3, Steve? |
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Name: Steve Baird From: Hillbilly Heaven Time: 1999-11-10 12:25:44 Comments: Luke and beetle. I'm not sure I read you correctly, but my take is that you will see a miniscule amount of Oldies (real oldies, not stuff from the 70's) material remastered to either SACD or DVD-Audio. What would be the point? As time marches on, there will be fewer and fewer customers for music of the Fifties, so what makes it into new formats will merely be taken from existing 44/16 digital masters. If you read my interview article with ACE UK's Roger Armstrong, you might infer that he thinks this 24/96 business is Tommy Rot. I think I agree (as far as oldies are concerned). As for 5.1 channel, I suppose there are those that want the horns behind them, the drums in front, Paul McCartney's Guitar coming out of the left rear speaker while his voice comes out of the front right one. Hey whatever floats your boat. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-10 12:35:40 Comments: Steve, Pretty soon, by your definition, 70's music *will* be *real* oldies. Luke, didn't mean to tick you off, and thanks for the info about Fame Studios. But if "Funky Broadway", Land Of 1000 Dances" and others were recorded at Fame *before* the disasterous Aretha session, how come Wilson Pickett's stuff is in stereo? |
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Name: Christopher (Dr.D.) Dolmetsch From: Hurricane, WV/USA Time: 1999-11-10 13:01:18 Comments: Regarding the age-old STEREO vrs. MONO debate as it pertains to the Beatles (Stones or any other performer), I'd like to help put the discussion to rest once and for all by stating what I think is the obvious: there are those who are often called "purists" or "traditionalists" for wanting to hear their music precisely as it was originally intended. Some collect old 78 rpms, old 45s or vintage vinyl and argue about the sound from the historical or sonic perspective. Then again, there are those who are just the opposite. I'd call them the "technophiles" or the "futurists." They would like to approximate the experience of being *at* the recording session or concert rather than hearing it processed electronically, and so strive to obtain the most sophisticated sound equipment and likewise the most sophisticated recordings they can find. Neither side will ever win in this debate, both are right in their own ways. As for me, I generally enjoy hearing the music as close to the original studio or concert sound as is possible. With increasing age and somewhat diminished hearing, I especially enjoy getting recordings with the crisp, clear and separated sounds that modern digital technology can produce. Hearing that piano track clearly throughout the Stones'"Satisfaction" on a stereo version was like hearing the song anew. I refuse, however, to belittle or berate anyone who prefers the sound as it first was heard in the summer of 1965 on that little black round thing. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-11-10 13:55:49 Comments: I'd like to mention that the term "oldies" no longer has the same connotation that it did a few years ago. The local CBS oldies station played "Margaritaville" yesterday. Forget Elvis, Fats, Richard, Ricky and the rest of those guys. "Oldies" are now James Taylor, Jimmy Buffet, Carole King, and any 70's pre-disco music you can conceive. Eventually, disco will wind up lumped in there, too. Sadly, the "Music of Your Life" format doesn't play Fats, Richard, or Ricky, either, but they'll play The Lennon Sisters, Lawrence Welk, The Carpenters and Barry Manilow! It's now such that the grandfathers of rock n' roll are treated like bastard children by the programmers. Add to it the fact that some "oldies" compilations of vintage rock n' roll have not sold well, and what does that say for the state of the reissue business? "La Dee Dah," and NOT by Billie and Lillie, either. |
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Name: Ray Soper From: Sydney Australia Time: 1999-11-10 14:36:33 Comments: I'll probably get chipped for straying from the theme, but Steve Baird's post a few back reminded me of a couple of oldies jokes that had Jan & me laughing to split our sides. The first is "What's the difference between a cow and the James Last Orchestra? With the James Last Orchestra the horns are at the back!" I actually don't know James Last, he is/was probably a very nice bloke! The other concerns Meatloaf. "Did you hear that Meatloaf has changed his name?" "No. Really? What to?" "The Artist Formerly Known as Mince!" boom boom. I promise I won't do it again guys. |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 14:42:40 Comments: Beetle, re: Don't worry - I'm not ticked off at all. As far as "Land of 1000 Dances" goes, I've never heard that song in stereo - obviously if somebody has let me know. "Mustang Sally" and "Everybody Needs Somebody To Love" are both stereo - sort of. The basic track is mono/reprocessed while the backing vocals are off to the side. They certainly sound like overdubs to me, possibly done at Atlantic in NY or somewhere else. So the session tape was probably just mono. As for "Funky Broadway" - I would assume Muscle Shoals had a stereo recorder at that time - "I've Never Loved A Man" was done several months prior to "Funky". I don't have exact recording dates for either, but... |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-10 14:37:39 Comments: Beetle, re: Don't worry - I'm not ticked off at all. As far as "Land of 1000 Dances" goes, I've never heard that song in stereo - obviously if somebody has let me know. "Mustang Sally" and "Everybody Needs Somebody To Love" are both stereo - sort of. The basic track is mono/reprocessed while the backing vocals are off to the side. They certainly sound like overdubs to me, possibly done at Atlantic in NY or somewhere else. So the session tape was probably just mono. As for "Funky Broadway" - I would assume Muscle Shoals had a stereo recorder at that time - "I've Never Loved A Man" was done several months prior to "Funky". I don't have exact recording dates for either, but... |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-10 15:40:26 Comments: Tom, your post has reminded me that vintage country music is not played on many country stations either in favor of the top 40 country artists. ABC's syndicated "Real Country" format is a very well inclusive format of country music ranging from vintage country music to the "hot new country" (a.k.a. top 40 country) of today. There is also WSM AM in Nashville that does play vintage country music and the Grand Ole Opry is still on that station and is partially televised on TNN. As you have told me, vintage country doesn't sell quite as well as vintage pop either yet the indie labels, import labels, DCC (who's coutnry reissues are successful for the company), Rhino, Sony Legacy and BMG (using the "Essential" series of hits comps on RCA and Buddha reissuing albums) do frequently reissue vintage country music while the other major labels simply ignore the vintage country catalog. Liberty's "Liberty Classics" line of reissued albums and a hits compilation from Jessi Colter entitled "Jessi Colter Collection" all released issued in 1994-1995 are in many cases, now out of print, and I have seen some of these reissues sell for $20 at eBay. I personally do have these CD's from Liberty that came out in the "Liberty Classics" period: the Jessi Colter comp containing every one of her top 40 country hits on Capitol (All of her top 40 hits on RCA are available on these CD reissues: "Wanted! The Outlaws" and "Essential Waylon Jennings") which isn't part of the series and the reissues that are part of the series of Tennessee Ernie Ford & Glen Campbell's "Ernie Sings and Glen Picks," which features 10 songs covered by Ernie and Glen, and Willie Nelson's 1962 album "...And Then I Wrote" which features his versions of "Hello Walls," "Mr. Record Man," "Crazy," "Funny How Time Slips Away," and other songs. |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-10 17:06:09 Comments: Per Bradley's post regarding vintage country artists, here are two good ones: The Kendalls (on Varese) and Norma Jean (on Collectors' Choice.) I mastered these and they both sound good. The Norma Jean is a compilation of her single hits. Some of these were taken from 2-track masters while some were remixed from really clean 3-track masters. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-10 17:43:16 Comments: Thanks Marty. I knew about the Kendalls comp yet I haven't bought it yet, but thanks for letting me know about the Norma Jean comp. RCA hasn't included Norma Jean in their "Essential" series but neither have they included Sylvia (known for "Nobody"), Dave and Sugar, Louise Mandrell, etc. but Renaissance has released comps by the aforementioned artists artists plus comps by Lynn Anderson (one for her early country chart hits on Chart and another of her hits for Columbia), Juice Newton, Charly McClain (which Legacy hasn't included in their reissues yet) and others. Speaking of Sony Legacy, they have just released reissues with added bonus tracks and restored artwork of these titles: Marty Robbins's "Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs," (which I have recently bought and it does sound great) from 1959, "Johnny Cash At Folsom Prison," from 1968, Willie Nelson's "Stardust" from 1978, Tammy Wynette's "Stand By Your Man" from 1968, and Merle Haggard's "Big City" from 1981, on October 19 as part of their "American Milestones" reissue series of country albums. To be politically correct only the Marty Robbins album was had the original LP front cover art restored as the 1990 CD reissue doesn't have the original cover art while the previous CD's of the other albums did have the original cover art already. |
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Name: Alan Bartenhagen Website: From: Saratoga Springs, NY Time: 1999-11-10 18:54:03 Comments: Does anyone know if the single version of The Doors' "Light My Fire" is available on CD in mono or stereo? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-10 22:58:49 Comments: To Allen: Scroll back to the archives about three-four months ago, and check out the subject of LMF. I recreated the exact 45 RPM single edit of "Light My Fire" in both stereo and mono. A couple of regulars here have heard the edits I e- mailed to them on mp3's. It is not available commercially anywhere. An approximation of it is on a CD single and cassette. |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-11 08:24:56 Comments: As the conversation has drifted around to Country, can anyone offer input on the Hank Snow 2-disc Time-Life set available from Collector's Choice? 30 tracks at $19.95 sounds pretty good. I checked TL's site, and can't find it. I'm especially interested to find out if it contains "Rockin' Rollin' Ocean." Other RCA 60s artists left out of the "Essential" series... Liz Anderson, George Hamilton IV, Hank Locklin and most glaringly; Don Gibson! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-11-11 13:32:35 Comments: Curt, you are right about those artists that are left out of the "Essential" series. Razzy Bailey (who was a country hitmaker in the late 1970's and early 1980's and wrote the Dickey Lee country hit "9,999,999 Tears") does have a Renaissance Anthology CD out and was left out of the "Essential" series. |
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Name: Jesus From: San Juan, PR Time: 1999-11-11 16:23:39 Comments: To Boppin' Brian: The BEATLES OMRs I refered to are a MobileFidelitySoundLabs boxed set of all the STEREO British Beatle LP's (plus the STEREO US Magical Mystery Tour LP) called The Beatles The Collection. Comes with a 12" booklet with all the covers of the LP's plus some tech info, and on the LP's album covers each has a photograph of the 15 ips master tape inside its box with its log (One tape reel per side). The OMR's that Paul was refering to are STEREO CD's of the first 4 albums (which are only available officially in MONO) aparently made (supposedly) either from a digital safety copy MFSL made of the tapes (which with the vinyl box set being released before CD's it's a little odd, maybe they were planning on CD releases then?) or the master tapes themselves, or maybe directly from the OMR vinyl LP's? I don't know cus i havent heard the CD's, but everybody I see mentioning them says they sound better than the official MONO CD releases. (On one of my previous interminable posts I've mentioned that albums 1-6 (and the song Strawberry Fields F.) aren't available in original stereo, and albums 5-9 aren't available in original mono, on the EMI CD's) |
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Name: Luke Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-11-11 16:51:19 Comments: I haven't heard a copy in awhile, but I'm fairly certain the "OMR" CDs (and other stereo CDs) are from very good disc dubs... It's too bad whoever copied the various "Ultra Rare Trax"/"Unsurpassed Masters" material didn't copy the stereo masters for the first 4 LPs! |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-11 18:41:10 Comments: Re: Beatles First 4 Lps in Stereo. Actually, there are many sources for the Beatles first 4 LPs in Stereo on Cd. The best two are the Beat Records Cds. The First one is a Double Cd called "Original Master Recordings" Its the first four BRITISH Lps, all in true stereo from what sounds like copies of the Master Tapes that MSLP had when they did the vynil series. The sound quality is just AMAZING, there is no other way to put it, super clean. When I listen to the Beatles, this is what I put on. The other source is also on Beat Records, but they are two-fer CDs with two of the AMERICAN Lps on each disk. I was told these were made from mint copies of the 7 1/2 ips Reel to Reel tapes that were available to audiophiles in the early 1980's. These sound great also, BUT they have all the dreadful reverb that Capitol put on the songs, and also have the fake stereo versions on a few cuts that the LPs had. I dont like these as much, but they arent bad. I much prefer the "clean" British versions. Hope this helps my BSN Buddies! Mikey |
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Name: Joanne From: PA Time: 1999-11-11 23:03:47 Comments: Hi, I hope someone can give me some help with this. My X gave my son some of the stereo equipment he had purchased for him and was set up at his house. But he didn't give him all of it. I don't know anything about it. If it was just an easy hookup, fine, but things aren't going together that easily. Here is what I have. A Sony CDP-215 (Which I am sure you know is a CD player.) There are two Canton Plus S speakers and a Canton Plu C. If I remember correctly, this is normally called, 2 shelf speakers and a sub-woofer. My problem is that's all I have. The hook ups are totally different. I cannot just plug one into the other. Can someone tell me what I need to do? I asked at a Service Merchandise store awhile ago, if he thought I needed an equalizer. He said to plug them in and see if the CD player has enough power by itself. But then I realized that I cannot just plug them in together. He also said that if I do need one, a 150 Watt, 75 per channel should do. It is just for my son's room, I don't need to blow out the windows. If there is any other information you need to help me, let me know. I hope someone can make sense of this for me. Sorry this is so long. Hope it isn't as confusing to you as it is to me. |
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Name: Jesus From: San Juan, PR Time: 1999-11-11 23:09:15 Comments: Are there CD's of the British original stereo and mono Help! and Rubber Soul albums too? I've seen on the net mentions of mono CD's of Revolver, Sgt.PLHCB, and The Beatles, but no mono or original stereo of those other 2 (I've never seen a beatleg so i'm a newbie in that area :P) ;) |
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Name: Chris B. From: OH Time: 1999-11-12 00:44:38 Comments: I would like to know on what album did the Ricky Nelson song "Your Kind Of Lovin" appear on. I saw him perform the song on VH1 Ed Sullivan Show. The show date was from 1966. It sounds like a Gary Lewis @ the Playboys song. I can't seem to locate this song on cd or lp. Thanks |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-12 03:11:23 Comments: Jesus: The commercially available official EMI/Parlaphone CD's that are on the market are the original British stereo and mono albums. The first four are in mono. The "Help" and "Rubber Soul" CD's were digitally remixed stereo. You are a Bealtes newbie! |
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Name: Jesus the newoldbie From: San Juan, PR Time: 1999-11-12 11:30:57 Comments: err... uh? beetlefan, you just said what i've said. So how does that make me a Beatle newbie? ;) Since the EMI releases don't include the original stereo mixes of "Help"! and "Rubber Soul", nor the mono mixes, I was asking if those were available on another "kind" of CD, just like the recently mentioned Beat Brother "OMR" ones of the first 4 in stereo, or the mono ones I've seen ocassionaly on the net of "Sgt.PLHCB","Revolver", and "The Beatles". Been buying Beatle records since 1976. |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-12 12:30:51 Comments: Good deal alert! cdpoint.com has three of the four Westside George Goldner label anthologies at just $13.88 each (double disc): "End Story", "Gee Story" and "Rama Story". ALSO, free shipping on three or more CDs through November 21. They don't seem to have the fourth..."Gone Story" in the database yet. Collector's Choice has "Gone" and the others...at $19.95-$21.95. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-12 13:27:54 Comments: Jesus, Sorry guy, I do have the mono song, "Help" on The Beatles CD Singles Collection". That's all I know. |
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Name: Charles Ellis From: Staten Island, NY Time: 1999-11-12 17:13:24 Comments: Re Rick Nelson's "Your Kind of Loving", I too have ssen the Sullivan clip, and more importantly, there was a very brief clip of Rick performing the song in the A&E Ozzie & Harriet "Biography" special. The clip was in color, and I suspect that he either performed the song on film during the final, color 1965-66 season of "O&H", or was part of the feature film "Love & Kisses" which had Rick, Kris & Ozzie Nelson in it. That film was released in '66. If a soundtrack album exists, maybe the song is on it. I've checked every Rick Nelson CD that's been released during the past decade, and "Your Kind of Loving" has yet to see the digital light- that is, unless it's on an import..... |
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Name: Lex Bloom, Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 1999-11-12 18:54:27 Comments: In response to Mr. Daly's comments: GAWD!! The local CBS oldies station in Boston has already been steadily divorcing itself from the "oldies" connotation; I've already been hearing disco, and material leaning toward the 80s. This all started happening when the station got a new program director who has long since been on a panic trying to compete with a rival station. Gee whiskers! I always knew that "Uptown Girl" by Billy Joel was sort of a takeoff on the Four Seasons, but this is ridiculous! |
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Name: Ralph Curcio Website: From: N.J. Time: 1999-11-12 19:17:38 Comments: For Chris and Charles: The Rick Nelson song "Your Kind of Lovin'" was released as a single in 1966 and doesn't appear on any of the Ace reissues of Rick's Decca-label material put out so far. The Ace 2-on-1 LP reissues, unfortunately, contain no bonus tracks, which would have been a good way to get more of Rick's obscure singles and B-sides out on CD. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-12 19:15:50 Comments: To all: As the generations age, so does their music. The tail end of the original baby-boomers (1945-1964) are entering thier 40's. The music of their youth is generally centered around the 70's and 80's. Twentysomething radio programmers tend to skip the 70's altogether! You're going to hear more 70's and 80's and less 50's and 60's. It's already happenning. Best buy what you can now. It may not come back next time. Time won't change me, and I can't change time-David Bowie |
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Name: Joe Barnaby From: Southern NH Time: 1999-11-12 23:43:16 Comments: As has been noted in previous comments, the music of the 50's and pre-Beatles 60's is increasingly being relegated to the margins of oldies radio programming, turning up mostly on Sunday nights or other graveyard shifts. Even CBS-FM in New York is heading in that direction, though they're not as far along as their sister station in Boston. There, the vast majority of the 50's-early 60's material is heard Sunday nights from 6 to 2 a.m., with Little Walter's Time Machine taking the first half, and the so-called Doo-Wop Diner (which consists of oldies that used to be played regularly 10 years ago) taking the 2nd half of that time period. Only the safest oldies from that era (e.g. "The Wanderer", "Runaway") are heard during the weekdays. And it has been a few years since the weekly Top 20 countdown show went back earlier than 1964. Since the over-50 age group is not the most coveted demographic by advertisers in commercial radio (and TV), in a few years the only way you'll hear the 50's-early 60's oldies on the air outside of small markets is on AM stations being fed from a satellite like the MOYL stations of today. Or else buy your own dish. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-13 01:22:25 Comments: Call it "ageism" if you will. The same thing happenned to the generation before. It's not really on purpose, it's just that time moves on. One day the stereo/mono issue will be moot. Again, buy what you can, if you want to continue to enjoy your favorite oldies. Get a CD-R recorder, tape recorder, whatever, and start archiving! I am. I no longer rely on the companies to do it. I can't live without the 60's music I grew up with. I want history to be preserved and remembered. I'm afraid what a certain engineer said to me once will come to pass: companies will virtally stop issuing oldies partly because of people like me make their own masters from records and tapes. But we have no choice anymore. |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-13 04:51:35 Comments: I think Beetlefan presents too bleak an outlook on 50's/60's oldies. The fact that we have such a good medium as "compact disc" means we don't have to rely on oldies radio stations the way we used to. It is much easier now to build your own music library than it ever was back in the 50's or 60's or maybe even 70's. Back then, for example, an Everly Bros. hit could be found only on a Cadence gold single reissue or perhaps on a "Best Of" vinyl LP. Today you can find Everly Bros. Cadence hits on Rhino, Ace, LaserLight, Collectables, on an upcoming Varese package, plus most of the hits show up on dozens of compilations usually coupled with other great songs from the same era. I find this especially significant since Cadence has long since been out of business and Barnaby never released any of this material after the demise of vinyl. The fact that record companies today can easily cross-license repertoire (Rhino really paved the way for this years ago) means that we can own mostly all of our favorite oldies on CD. Now, I agree that certain obscure and esoteric material from that era, if it hasn't been released yet, the chances are slim it probably ever wil. But then again, very few good oldies stations ever would play really obscure material anyway. And I'll also admit there are some songs which appear only in mono (where perhaps there is now a stereo version available). But Varese Vintage has addressed itself to this matter in their Discoveries series and I'm sure that down the road, they and other reissue labels will find a way to bring some of these "recently discovered finds" to the CD buyer...maybe sprinkling them in with other tried and true hits, but making them available nonetheless. For those of us who collect music on CD, how many significant artists do not have their biggest songs available somewhere...if not on an "artist" CD at least on a various artists compilation? Short of the Cameo-Parkway hits, I can' t think of too many songs from the 50's and 60's I can't find. Besides, if you have a killer sound system and a CD changer, wouldn't you prefer to take out a stack of your favorite CD's and program them in a sequence which pleases you, rather than to have to sit through music sets punctuated with jingles, endless commercials and disc jockeys with limited talent which is what you find on most oldies stations these days? |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-13 07:21:31 Comments: Regarding "ageism" and the limited scope of Oldies formats: As a thirty year veteran of the medium (whose gainful employment was deregulated out of existance in 1996), I feel I can speak to the issue. The most attractive demographic groups sought by advertisers on radio are 25-34 and (secondarily) 35-49. Listeners in the former group are served by so-called "Classic Rock" formats, focusing on the 70s/80s (with a nod to the 60s usual suspects). The latter demo isn't as involved with music radio as a constant companion and, as someone has previously noted, programmers tend to be younger as well. So, you have "Good Times & Great Oldies" stations pretty much going through the motions for the 50s & 60s. Throw in deregulation, focus groups & audience testing of music and you get "safe as milk" radio. Now, I try to avoid pimping for my NetRadio channels when I post here, but please try "Rockin' Rhythm 50s" or "Pre- Fab 60s" in the Vintage Rock arena and see what you think. The former is a mix of DooWop, Rockabilly and R&B....the latter the Girl Group, Teen Idol, and Instrumental era. We will also be putting up some Pop 50s and 60s channels soon. Cut, paste and visit: http://www.netradio.com |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-11-13 08:26:23 Comments: The real villains in this game of demographics are the majors. Take those "Discoveries" CDs that Varese issued... I don't know of a collector who didn't get them. What makes them stiffs for Varese is the licensing minimums. It's time the labels put in a sliding scale on these minimums. For example, if a blues collector wanted to buy a disc by Savannah Churchill or Hadda Brooks, he can't get one from BMG or Sony. The 10,000 piece minimums imposed by the majors preclude any 3rd party label from licensing a whole CD's worth of tracks from either major on either artist, as the 3rd party label would never sell 10,000 pieces of those artists. There aren't enough blues collectors out there to support those minimums, and of the entire group of those collectors, only a percentage of them would want either artist. The majors have left only one recourse for the collector who wants those artists: bootlegs of disc dubs. I'm sure BMG has a tape of Churchill's "Walking by the River," but it will never see the digital light-of-day because it's unaffordable. If BMG would consider a 2,000 piece license on it, it might behoove a 3rd party label to pay for it, but the majors have determined that it's not worth their time and trouble to license their catalogs for less than 10,000, or 25,000 in WEA's case. That, Luke, is the reason you won't see the precious Stax/Atlantic material turning up on Varese, Taragon, Eric, or Collectables. WEA has priced the material outside the realm of affordable licensing. |
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Name: Uncle Al From: Long Island, NY Time: 1999-11-13 08:57:03 Comments: Regarding "ageism": In the early 1970's, CBS FM in New York had an oldies format that consisted of mostly 50's and pre-Beatles 60's. This format changed little through the mid-ninetees, and all they really did was extend their focus to include all of the sixtees. Their annual "best oldies" poll always seemed to name "In the Still of the Night" as the number 1 song. I am 44 years old (no spring chicken) and have to say that "Night" has no emotional connotation for me. While I love the music of 50's, the soundtrack to my adolescence was the LATE 60's through the mid seventies. These are "oldies" to me. What is an oldie? In 1972 CBS was playing 1962 and calling them oldies. By that logic, REM's "Losing My Religion" (1989) is now an oldie. "Uptown Girl" (1984) is now a "golden oldie". There were similar concerns about 5 years ago in NY that big band "swing" music would be gone forever when the last AM station using that format went all talk. Another station came in and filled the void. I feel that there is nothing to worry about, the music is timeless and will last forever. (By the way, my 15 year old daughter thinks Nirvana is an oldie!) |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-13 10:41:49 Comments: To return to "talkin' stereo oldies" for a moment, Marty.... what's the current status of the Shangri Las material? I assume Polygram has everything. What all did you find when putting together the "Best of Red Bird/Blue Cat"? Were the four tracks included on the disc all you wanted to use? And, what's the latest stuff out there from Polygram? I NEED to hear "Past, Present & Future" in stereo! |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: click HERE for Taragon Records Home Page! Time: 1999-11-13 11:07:14 Comments: The Best Of Red Bird/Blue Cat Records was put together by Ron Furmanek and I. There are mostly mono masters at PolyGram (Universal) with a few stereo tracks that were used on the Mercury LPs. We found the 4 track on "Never Go Home Anymore" at Sun Records in Nashville, with the other Red Bird tracks that they own, but that was it. (PolyGram won control of the Shangi-Las masters in a court settlement a few years ago with Sun, the remaining Shangri-Las, and George Morton.) The rest of the tapes that are left were scattered about...some in California, some on the east coast in a garage...but still many, many masters are missing, or damaged. At one point, we were going to do a double CD of eveything, but then PolyGram released a regular-price CD, then a budget-price CD. If you add in the imports, it didn't make much sense to commit to 10,000 more units of Shangri-Las. |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Time: 1999-11-13 12:37:28 Comments: Thanks, Eliot. Of course, I should have directed the question to you and Ron. In the liner notes to the Charley "Red Bird Story", mention is made of discovering masters and unreleased material while Leiber & Stoller's publishing staff were clearing out the New York office and transferring boxes of paperwork to L.A. This was apparently in 1990, before the return of control to Polygram from Shelby Singleton (Sun). Do you know what was discovered? Was this the source for the tracks on RBBC? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-13 12:37:01 Comments: You guys are all echoing pretty much what I stated in my last posts, in a roundabout way, of course. And Marty, I do paint a bleak picture. It seems to me that a lot of people still listen to and rely on radio. I don't, and haven't for almost twenty years. Maybe someone will get my point. Sorry, Boppin' Brian and Blind Jim. |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: Click HERE for Taragon Records Home Page!! Time: 1999-11-13 14:00:52 Comments: Curt, some of the tapes did come from the Leiber-Stoller batch, and that story is accurate. There were a few unreleased tracks, but mostly alternate takes of existing tracks, and some unfinished music tracks, etc. Not all that much is usable. Maybe one day it'll get released... |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-13 15:43:01 Comments: In reply to Tom Daly, true the minimum orders required from the majors precludes a lot of worthwhile material from seeing the light on CD. But a Savannah Churchill track could easily become part of a "Varous Artist" compilation on either BMG or an independent label. Someone would have to find a concept of Great Blues Singers and then find a way to use a Savannah Churchill or Hadda Brooks track on it. Probably there would have to be some more mainstream blues songs on it to make it more sales worthy. Maybe this is an idea for a budget CD at Buddha (BMG) rather than a regular Taragon, Varese, Ace, etc. who would be scared off by a 10,000 unit guarantee. Here, a company like BMG could more easily scour their vaults and find 10 or 12 good blues tracks to put on a CD to push out the door for $7.99. Of course we wouldn't necessarily expect fancy packaging, but the music would at least be there. Another point that has never been addressed here...hard core collectors, of which there are many who are contributors to this site, always know about every new CD coming out. Maybe this segment of the market doesn' total more that 500 or 1,000 people. Yet there probably are many people who like the repertoire used on, for instance, the four most recent Eric CD's (50's/60's vocals and instrumentals v/a) who will never see them in a store or who will never be aware such product exists in the first place! If there was a way to better reach the audience of "over 40's/over 50's", maybe these CD's would sell better and make companies more likely to issue product that would have a better shot at breaking the 10,000 unit guarantee. Better distribution, better advertising are all going to be essential to selling more units. Certainly radio play for this type of music will not help sell what is now, sadly, called "specialized" product. |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 1999-11-13 16:52:51 Comments: Tom Daly and Marty Wekser make excellent points as to why a lot of the more obscure songs don't make it to CD. But, to take that one step further, none of the tracks on the Varese "Discoveries" CDs was licensed with the 10,000 minimum.In fact, the actual "break even" point on those two CDs in particular is well below that 10,000 figure.The point being, once again, that even if every real collector buys a CD like the "Discoveries" packages, your sales can still be under 2000 units. So that further reinforces what Tom Daly is saying...if you can barely sell 2000 units on a special package put together almost exclusively with the real collectors in mind (and you probably don't break even on it), you can see why the reissue labels can't even begin to consider these kinds of packages if they have to pay the major labels the 10,000, 15,000, or 25,000 unit minimums.One other point that hasn't been made is that, not only do these major labels demand these kind of minimums, but they may also require you to have their special markets divisions manufacture the CDs,too. And in most cases that alone can add another dollar or more to the cost of the finished product. Remember, the labels have to pay for all of those CDs (based on the minimums) no matter how few units they actually sell.If that isn't discouraging enough by itself there is also something known as "favored nations rates". In other words, if you choose to do the licensing yourself and have it manufactured by an independent CD plant you generally have to pay all of the majors at the highest rate you pay for any given track.So if you get something from Universal for the 10,000 unit guarantee but then have to give WEA a 25,000 unit guarantee that means all tracks on that CD licensed from a major revert to the 25,000 unit guarantee.If all this seems to get quite complicated that's because it is.These things all have to be considered if you're a small reissue label trying to do special packages.You literally have to weigh the value of each CD on a song by song, label by label basis. |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: Taragon Records Company website Time: 1999-11-13 16:56:32 Comments: Just to add to Marty's comments, I can't make money to run my business and feed my family on 3000 CDs sold of anything. A record company has good sellers and bad sellers and the strong subsidize the weak. If you have few strong sellers, you're out of business, plain and simple. If BMG sells 5 million Elvis CDs and 3,000 blues compilation CDs, which title are they gonna look to do more of next time? They are #1 in R&B/Rap right now and that pays for their thousands of employees, big ofice buildings, etc. so from a logic standpoint, they're going to concentrate on projects that can make them the most money. In my (smaller) world, I'm under pressure to do the same thing, just as are the other record label people that do what I do. |
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Name: Curt Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-11-13 17:07:18 Comments: Received my "Definitive" Steve Lawrence collection from Disc Collector (along with the hot Rolling Stones disc) today. Rather than list the 31 tracks, if anyone's interested just email me. Split decision, with the ABC/Paramount stuff in stereo, but the bulk of the Columbia mono. On another note, be sure to check out the November 6th "Billboard" magazine, with the final entry in a multi-part story on digital preservation of the 5 majors' catalogs. Important, not just because of the steady deterioration of magnetic tape, but the implications for collectors. The very point is made that it's not economical to press CDs in small batches, and with digitized music, the day may come when we can download from the company the titles we want! It is a MASSIVE project, with Sony the clear leader at the moment...I think I read 60% of the current material available on CD has been preserved digitally. If you live near a good library, they may have a subscription, including back issues. |
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Name: Mike Arcidiacono Time: 1999-11-13 18:35:57 Comments: Re: The obscurities on Cd. What I think everybody on this list should realize is that, really, the only way we as collectors are going to get that obscure Jackie and Gale 45 thats buried under 3000 reels of tape in Sonys vaults is by DIGITAL DOWNLOAD. The big labels have deemed that those 5,000 unit CD runs just arent profitable enough so they wont do them. BUT, this isnt 1969, its 1999 and the digital download era is about to begin. Sony has already started, making 4,000 hard to find LPs available only by digital download. If that pilot is succesful, it could mean the start of a whole new era in music collecting. I'm sure they would do some easy Market research (collectors email them with titles in the vaults that they would like to download) then it cost very little for them to digitize them (its EASY) and make in available for download. The numbers HERE are interesting. If they charge, say 3.00 for an obscure 45 (both sides), they have the potential to make ALOT of money from the title in their vaults which are making them NOTHING now, and in fact are costing them storage fees. Sony, for example, is going to make a FORTUNE because of all the great labels and classic titles that they own, even if it were ONLY Columbia Records!! I guess we will see how their pilot program goes, in fact I urge all of us on BSN to deluge Sony with emails about the system and whats going to be in the 4,000 titles. Perhaps if we send in our wants, a few of them may make the cut. Its certainly better than what we have now!! Mikey |
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Name: Larry Davis From: Longview WA Time: 1999-11-13 20:14:22 Comments: Marty Wekser's idea of including one or two smaller hits (or even none hits) on a CD of otherwise familiar material is a good one. I know that I have bought dozens of CDs just to get one recording that was available no where else. This year, I got a MCA Special Products CD COUNTRY HITS OF THE '50s just for Warner Mack's "Is It Wrong". I bought a K-Tel release COUNTRY MUSIC CLASSICS VOL. 3 1965-1970 for Leon Ashley's "Laura (What's He Got That I Ain't Got)". There have even been times I've spent $20.00 for a CD with only one song that I really wanted.......... As for better marketing of this kind of product, I've seen some improvement in the past few years. Collector's Choice fills their catalog with many small label releases. Heartland, has added more and more quality releases from Columbia's and RCA's "Essential" series of CDs. Even a high priced specialty mail order company like Catalog Music Co. (www.purecountrymusic.com) that used to carry little more than Highland, Gusto, and King junk has added quality items like the DECCA COUNTRY CLASSICS 1934-1973 box set and THE ULTIMATE COLLECTION by Tennessee Ernie Ford from Razor & Tie........... A question for Eliot Goshman about going for the volume sellers first. If that is so, why can't Taragon persuade Joni James to do a really good double CD greatest hits package? I know I've heard the answer "Mrs. Acquaviva decides what will be released of her recordings". And I admit that I have bought all of them. I have nine on Taragon, one on Jasmine, one on Beautiful Music Co., and the latest on Koch, JUKEBOX JONI..... But you'd think that after buying TWELVE CDs on one '50s artist you'd be able to say you have all the chart hits. We know that's not possible since seven chart hits have never been released on CD, including two Top 10 hits. Greatest Hits packages should eventually outsell any release of only album material. Doesn't she think her hit recordings were any good? |
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Name: barry margolis From: Minneapolis, MN Time: 1999-11-13 20:42:23 Comments: I just read the various comments about how many units much be sold, etc. The point that's so frustrating is after all this time, no one seems to know how to successfully market 'oldies' on CD. Tower doesn't maintain an oldies section (other than slapping various artists CD's together). In fact, nobody does, except J&R Music World in New York City. Nobody does it in Minneapolis - that's for sure. Etta James is in the blues section, and most of the other 'oldies' artists are scattered within the rock or soul sections. Same goes for most of the website CD ordering companies. eBay doesn't have an oldies classification either. I know that many people have differing opinions of what constitutes an 'oldie' but that varying opinion has been added to by the fact that nobody successfully markets this stuff. Taragon CDs should (and could) sell twice as many units if there was a central website location to find all the oldies on CD from all of the major companies who specialize in oldies. Stores could sell (and would stock) these titles from the small specialized companies if only they had a centralized place to put 'em. Who the hell is going to stumble on a title of "Red Bird-Blue Cat Story" if it's in with 1500 various artists collections of bad disco and rap-crap music? |
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Name: Chip Ordway From: Long Island Time: 1999-11-13 22:16:44 Comments: Geez....this is the first time I've visited this page, and I am amazed to find other people so "into" various oldies mixes. I've been creating my own mixes for years, and if anybody would be able to make an MP3 file to distribute, I'd love to circulate my TRUE stereo copy of "Strawberry Fields Forever"--Free, of course. For those of ya that don't know, the second half of the song was mixed into mono with the "King Lear" radio broadcast mixed right in as it was happening. It was a pretty hit-and-miss chance, but they got it done. But, there would never be a chance for a stereo mix. For the second half of the song, I played the released recording in one channel, and manually synched it up with one channel of a stereo rough mix, which didnt have any strings...minimal percussion, and full lead vocals. It took me numerous times to do it, but I finnally got a couple of good sync-ups which I then spliced together. Then, once the ending was tacked onto the released beginning part of the song--volia!!!! A true stereo mix! Not to brag, but it sounds pretty good. If anybody can make it into an MP3 to send back to me, let me know, and I'll dub a copy onto cassette. I did this on a Reel-2-Reel back in '95. If I only knew what the Cool Edit program was back then! Chip |
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Name: Chip Ordway From: Long Island Time: 1999-11-13 22:16:30 Comments: I can't believe that I called it Strawberry Fields Forever in the previous post! I meant to say "I am The Walrus". I Have been working WAY too much lately! "I am the Walrus" THATS what it was! NOT Strwaberry Fields! Chip |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-14 02:23:40 Comments: Eliot, your comments about the cost of producing new releases of oldies does nothing but increase my respect for you, Bill Buster, and the other unsung heroes, who are dedicated to putting out quality product, that appeals to so few of us. I can't name a single person where I work, who has any idea what Eric or Taragon stands for (and I work with hundreds of people). It's so frustrating! If I start talking to various persons at work about new releases, they just give me a blank look that says "so what?". Big deal, right? Well, it is a "big deal"! Or it should be. Certainly, the industry must be appreciative. The box set of Hank Williams, just this year, won an Emmy for the best box set (or something like that). Why don't they give Emmy's for work such as "The Very Best of Red Bird/Blue Cat Records", "Sam Cooke Greatest Hits", or "The Hard To Find 45s On CD" sets? Maybe we need to see them sold on late night television infomercials. That works for Time/Life, right? Anyway, it's a thought. |
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Name: Carl Shell From: North Jersey Time: 1999-11-14 03:20:16 Comments: Gentlemen: After reading what everyone has to say about what constitutes an "oldie", I gotta put my two cents worth in. I think it's a highly personal term, except for broadcasters who must "nich" everything. Oldies to me are a genre, that doesn't really relate directly to a specific time frame. For example, Morse Code of Love, recorded in l982 I'm told, is really an "oldie", because of it's style. Anything that is guitar based, and was played to death on classic rock stations ceases to be an oldie to me. Hence there are very few Who oldies, maybe I'm a Boy, Pictures of Lily, and such that were bypassed for classic rock play. Almost all DC Five cuts are oldies to me because classic rock shunned them, Billy J. Kramer ditto. An oldie to me is anything fifties, sixties up to the point where there was rock, but no roll. Therefore even though I love Absolutely Right by Five Man Electrical Band, to me it's not an oldie. Seekers, oldie. Beatles Please Please Me, and She loves You, oldies. Hey Jude is not an oldie to me because it reached the heights of popular culture and transcended the genre. Sgt Pepper cuts are not "oldies" for that reason. Some Kinks cuts qualify as oldies, such as Waterloo Sunset, Tired of Waiting, Death of a Clown, but not All Day and All of the Night or You got me. Arbitrary, yes, but I know what is an oldie TO ME, and what defines it. Marvin Gaye Can I get a Witness, yes, What's Going On, no. I think we each have our own idea of what is an oldie to us, and it's really hard to communicate such subjectivity. To some people, eighties music has "oldies", and I remember listening to Murray the K on 1010 Wins, in the early to mid sixties, and hearing a song from two years or so ago, called a Blast from the Past. If a record by the Flamingos from l959 was an oldie in l961, I guess it's valid for someone fifteen years old now to call a song from a couple of years ago "an oldie", because it is to him. Maybe we could come up with a new term, to describe what collecters consider an oldie, rather than have this jumble of perspectives revealing no clear insight.......Cheers! Carl |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-14 03:47:51 Comments: Oops! I should have said Grammys, not Emmys earlier. I need to get some rest. By the way, Carl, technically, oldies are any songs that have been out of the charts for more than a month. At least, that's what I've been told. So you're saying that anything that gets a lot of airplay on classic rock stations is not an oldie? I don't see it that way at all. Whether I like the music or not, last year's hits are oldies, to someone. I can remember that in 1965, a record like "Moody River" by PAT BOONE was an oldie to me. I still loved it, but I considered it an oldie. Of course, we didn't have anything called "Classic Rock" then. |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: click HERE for Taragon Records Home Page! Time: 1999-11-14 09:39:46 Comments: Larry, We have 9 Joni James titles now and she certainly is one of our biggest sellers. Ms. James and I consult on titles, but except for "Legendary", all are album reissues by her choice. She prefers to hold back the hits in favor of maximizing her album catalog, of which she owns over 40 LPs. At some point, I'm sure the songs you are looking for will get released. To Barry, You're right about compilations, and for the time being, I've given up on them. I can't find "Red Bird" at my Tower store, even when I know they ordered it! If people can't easily find it, it's dead. Even for people that like to browse the bins, the "Various" secctions are so overwhelming, with CDs all over the place. Even I , who used to like to look through this stuff, have lost the patience to do it anymore. The internet is still just a small part of the record business, but I think ultimately it will make compilation CDs easier to buy, allowing us to successfully release more of them. John, TV is an area we are looking at for the compilations we already have. If more people knew what was on the Red Bird comp, I think they'd grab it. By the way, we did get a nomination for an INDI award this year for our Red Bird CD, so industry people did notice. I do many projects that I believe in personally, that many times don't sell very well. Our Videls CD came about because Peter Anders played some new tracks for me and I loved them. (I still listen to that CD in the car.)So it's not always about sales or awards. |
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Name: Carl Shell From: Dover Time: 1999-11-14 10:17:59 Comments: Eliot Goshman, I only recently discovered your label. I really hadn't been collecting reissues or compilations that much until a short time ago. Right now that is all I am buying, but I did get the two Discoveries discs, and was extremely pleased with both. The Duane Eddy cut was especially appreciated as every other cd recording either cuts off the beginning or sounds like you know what. You got my attention when you mentioned the Videls. I must get that cd and I will order it directly. Perhaps you can answer a question for me. I was disappointed to learn that A LETTER FROM ANN was not on the disc you put out. How many singles did they have on Kapp? Being from Providence, I am really proud that such talent came from our area. Next time you see Vinnie, ask him if he remembers Chuck Stevens on WRIB. I really like everything they put out under whatever name they decided to use. For a couple of local guys from Rhode Island, they really achieved remarkable things in their careers. I remember seeing Vinnie at a drive-in one night when one of their songs came out. Thank you for recoginizing their early recordings. I never thought I would hear A PLACE IN MY HEART again. It will definately be in the next order I make on line. I am sorry to hear you are shying away from various artists, but I understand. It is a confusing mess to deal with, with stock almost non-existent in most stores, save for the same tunes released over and over and over. Upon getting an "insiders" view of how many copies, etc. I now have a feeling for the difficulty someone like you experiences in putting something that will sell together. Just keep doing the excellent work, please as I have a lot on your label to buy....Oh yes, also why are so many of Joni's recordings on MGM so "dull" sounding, even on original MGM lps? Not having heard any of yours yet, I must ask, did you have a major job cleaning up or brightening of the sound? Are they from original tapes from the fifties? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-14 14:27:59 Comments: Carl Shell, to me, it's a sense of time. Anything to me that's ten years old is an oldie. If it was song that was ahead of it's time in sound and production, in other words, sounds too contemporary, it doesn't feel old, but by my definition, is still an oldie. I do have a hard time listening to Bruce Springsteen's "Born To Run" or Roxy Music's "Love Is The Drug" because they sounds so eighties! I guess one has to keep up with the new stuff to get that king of perspective. I realize that many people stop listening to new music somewhere in their thirties because of family, work, ect. That could be why so many 50ish people glaze over the seventies and eighties. Thing is, I never stopped listening to new stuff. This could be a reason why so many of you guys, who are somewhere in their fifteis, save Luke, or Bradley, don't consider anything but pre-Britich invasion music oldies. It's a guess. Am I close? |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: Taragon Records Company website Time: 1999-11-14 14:18:47 Comments: Carl, The KAPP tracks required a 10,000 unit minimum, which I wasn't willing to give MCA at the time, and they wouldn't bend. I can't remember if there was 6 singles or 6 tracks...but it was something like that including a couple of unreleased. The Joni James CDs are mastered from DAT tapes of LP masters that Joni James Music gives us. Except for some minor adjustments, I'm stuck with whatever quality those tapes are. |
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Name: Eliot Goshman Website: Taragon Records Company website Time: 1999-11-14 14:36:38 Comments: Carl, The KAPP tracks required a 10,000 unit minimum, which I wasn't willing to give MCA at the time, and they wouldn't bend. I can't remember if there was 6 singles or 6 tracks...but it was something like that including a couple of unreleased. The Joni James CDs are mastered from DAT tapes of LP masters that Joni James Music gives us. Except for some minor adjustments, I'm stuck with whatever quality those tapes are. |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-14 16:45:50 Comments: Mikey - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Jackie & Gail. It is staggering to think how many singles were released yearly by Columbia/Epic/Okeh/Date and all their various associated labels, some from which they still own the masters. Steve Massie and I both worked for CBS (though me in an earlier era!). Ask him how many singles came out in a year's time, taking into consideration pop, r&b, country, jazz, etc. Back to the point you raised. Even though it may not be that expensive to make these analog sources available for digital downloading, someone has to spend time to do it. I don't see the likelihood of these tapes leaving the hands of Sony's union engineers. Besides, who will be paid to research which Jackie & Gail single to digitize (a&b side, a side only, follow-up single too?) Even though you will pay a big $3.00 to download it, how many others will? What seems more likely is that Sony will transfer all catalog albums by, say, Doris Day, Paul Revere & The Raiders, Frankie Laine, the Peanut Butter Conspiracy, Les Elgart, Mahalia Jackson and Frankie Yankovic many of which are not available on CD. They may also make "internet available" some of their current poorer selling CD titles prior to deleting them from retail. As for singles, I would think it would be chart hits only. Yeah. "Let Me Go Lover" by Joan Weber ...definitely. All those Moby Grape singles, maybe. Jackie & Gail?? Lastly, even if the download concept from Sony would be a flat one time fee, say $35, which would give you five free single downloads, I still don't see Sony scouring the vaults for really obscure stuff. And unless this becomes a cash cow, I'm not sure the other majors will follow along. For at least the next five years, I think the best shot at getting obscure favorites will be on Varese or Ace style packages. In many cases, these will be songs which were not on the major labels (many of the late 50's rock hits weren't), which can be licensed relatively inexpensively (as Steve Massie pointed out) when referring to the Discoveries packages he helped create for Varese. Those of us who do A&R for various artist packages do listen to feedback. It's just a matter of whether a particular song idea can be accomodated into a forthcoming package. |
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Name: Steve Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 1999-11-14 17:46:03 Comments: Hi fellow BSN regulars. Y’all have been busy this weekend having posted a month’s worth of noteworthy messages over the past 24 hours or so. I had meant merely to alert everyone to an Austalian EMI CD, *The Best of Peter & Gordon* (8298052) that I bought from a seller on ebay, but it appears so much has been written that deserves applause and comment that I will go beyond my originally intended note. The big deal about this Aussie CD is that it has *Woman* in << -- STEREO -- >>. I recall that more than a year ago someone had written here that every known domestic source for this song was monaural. Well, it’s in clean wide wonderful stereo here, guys. I paid all of $8.69 for the CD which is a bargain as you well know. The whole CD is excellent sounding too, with a total of 20 tracks. 11 of which are their biggest hits. The other 9 are covers of some well known Everly Brothers hits -- i. e. Lucille, Let It Be Me, Leave My Woman Alone -- and six other covers of other late 50’s early 60’s artists. A bargain at twice the price. I also picked up an Aussie Canned Heat from this seller (also for $8.69) of equally superb quality. To Carl Shell: many thanks for unwittingly coming to my defense by noting that you do not regard Sgt. Pepper’s as oldies. Neither do I, but not to resurrect a dead subject, I was the subject of some heat for admitting that although the Doors and the 4 Seasons were charting at the same time, I filed the Doors in my Rock section and my 4 Seasons in my oldies section. As it has often been pointed out at this site, the definition of oldies appears to be something very personal. Bill Buster: I saw something in a used CD store yesterday that I’ve never seen before; and I ALMOST bought it for the novelty. It was an Eric Records CD with 4 Ventures tunes on it. The accompanying info gave an address in New Jersey (presumably near Philly), and invited the reader to write for an Eric Records catalog. I seem to recall that you once told me you were from Philadelphia. Eliot Goshman: As I have often done in the past for other producers who post here, I’ve referred to your recordings in my column, *Reissue Roundup,* in The Sensible Sound Magazine. In fact, *Red Bird* was in my annual *Best Of* for 1998, and The Cascades made it into this year’s list. Nonetheless, I live in a small market. My locally owned CD shop buys one copy of such things as Red Bird, and then gives me a call when these kinds of things arrive. I’ve admonished them to stock these CDs, but they tell me that I am their only customer for such things. I am just as sorry as others to have read that you are abandoning the various artist format, but the reality is that the market for Fifties and Sixties material is diminishing. The older we get, the less important to us these things become. I don’t think, however, that the internet will ease the frustration of looking for a particular V/A Comp as in a bin of thousands in stores. Website search engines for the majors will have to be improved before searching for many items is made easy (CDNow, TotalE are the first 2 places I go -- try to find all of Eric’s latest releases on either). As with Classical music, these large sellers on the web will have to offer advanced search options that will allow the user to punch in a label and catalog number before this will be easy. (I wasn’t kidding either when I said that I would buy 10 copies of the CD Marty W hopes to produce with the Daddy-O’s *Got a Match?* on it. Nine of those copies will be taken out of their shrink wrap and sent to non oldies collector friends as gifts.) I also think John P’s suggestion for infomercials for oldies CDs is almost imperative for Taragon & VSA. Again, I can’t speak for major markets like N.Y. or L.A., but it is pretty apparent that since television exists merely to broadcast commercials -- with a little bit of actual programming sprinkled in here and there to break up the monotony -- this method cannot be all that expensive. And, thanks to the magic of cable TV, contracting with a single channel (maybe the food channel, whatever it’s called) would be enough to get you the exposure you would need. Hey, raise the price of the CD another dollar too to pay for the cost of the infomercial. Or, since American Movie Classics has been doing this AMPOP programming on weekends, could you find a better ready-made audience? Sponsor them. Arrange to have links to the VSA, Eric and Taragon websites installed at the AMPOP site -- and for heaven’s sake spruce up those sites of yours! If you want the casual visitor to buy the product, have your latest and greatest release right there in front of him when he arrives at your site with (you guessed it) a great big BUY button right there. Better yet, give AMPOP a piece of the action -- make it so that the visitor can buy the product right there. More subjects anon. |
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Name: Carl from Jersey Time: 1999-11-14 17:52:41 Comments: Marty, I find your comments to be right on regarding availability probabilities of obscure Columbia material. The real world just gets in the way! Eliot, thanks for the Videls info--I knew there must have been a good reason. I am beginning to seriously dislike MCA. There is so much not put on that they want 10,000 on, I'm certain. Why should I have to go to Germany to buy Kalin Twins? Or Warner Mack, or Royal Teens, Johnny Nash, or Betty Madigan? I know they don't own the rights to Swan, but is there any possibility of getting a Billy and Lily set together....ever? Beetlefan: You're too close for comfort! I, myself listen to (some)contemporary music and I have to confess that upon listening, a portion of it is with musical merit. Even the Backstreet Boys, have production that is beyond belief...some of the club music out now is sweeping in its orchestration, and symphonic (in the Spector sense). Who could not find the current crop of girl "folkie" singers appealing? I even enjoy the Offspring single, WHY DON'T YOU GET A JOB, (which is a big rip off of CECELIA) very enjoyable. And if you could attend a social function at which twenty something habitate, you would see the extremely strong emotional attachment they will always have for that song! Reaction is phenominal to that cut, with people singing along, knowing all the words, etc. And what about Santana? The hit single is very memorable. In a couple of years, these will be "Oldies", to some, but never to me..... |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-14 18:10:11 Comments: for the millennium: Bear Family Cameo/Parkway Greatest Hits Collection... $249 . The Complete Rolling Stones In Stereo... $98 . Dinner with Tom Dowd... $130 . Finding "Louie Louie" in stereo ... PRICELESS . There's some things money can't buy. For everything else there's Mastercard. |
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Name: Charles Ellis From: Staten Island, NY Time: 1999-11-14 19:34:19 Comments: Hey, Marty- might as well add: all-Stereo Phil Spector box set- $79.99!! Who knows, maybe all that long-waited for stuff will finally come out. After all, we DID get the Red Bird stereo hits from Taragon!! |
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Name: Terry From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-11-14 22:46:51 Comments: In searching the archives, I was unable to find anything on my two most rare mint stereo LP's that I've accumulated in the last 30 years of record collecting. So. . .if anyone searches the archives in the future, here is what is on the following two stereo LP's. . . . . First, Johnny Tillotson's 1960 stereo Cadence LP 25052 (Johnny Tillotson's Best). . . (1)Poetry In Motion. . (2)Dreamy Eyes. . (3)Cutie Pie. . (4)Earth Angel. . (5)True True Happiness. . (6)Much Beyond Compare. . (7)Without You. . (8)Jimmy's Girl. . (9)Princess, Princess. . (10)Pledging My Love. . (11)Why Do I Love You So. . (12)Little Sparrow, His True Love Said Goodbye. . . .Nine of these songs are in true stereo. Track 2, 5, 7 are in simulated stereo. Several of these songs like Princess, Princess and Earth Angel are currently available on the ACE label, but only in mono. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2nd, Diane Ray's 1963 Mercury LP SR60903 (The Exciting Years). This obscure one hit wonder wound up on the charts with "Please Don't Talk To The Lifeguard". I'm not aware of this LP ever being reissued in stereo. Her one hit has been reissued recently in stereo, but never the rest of the LP. There is currently an import CD reissue of this LP (South Bay label). However, not only is it in horrible mono, but the sound has been speeded up to apparently give Diane Ray a more cute chirpy sound. Unbelievable that they would do this. The original stereo LP contains the following. . . .(1)Please Don't Talk To The Lifeguard . .(2)That's all I Want From You. . (3)Happy Happy Birthday Baby. . (4)That Boy's Gonna Be Mine. . (5)Snow Man. . (6)My Summer Love. . (7)Just So Bobby Can See. . (8)No Other Arms. . (9)Tied Up With Mary. . (10)Slow Dancin' With Don. . (11)Where Is The Boy. . (12) You'd Be So Proud Of Me. . . . . . Eleven tracks are in true stereo, only track three is in simulated stereo. Key words for search: Diane Ray, Johnny Tillotson. |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-15 00:17:56 Comments: Terry, I didn't know "Cutie Pie" was ever issued in stereo. Did you make a mistake, or is it really stereo on that lp? If so, that's one that slipped by me. Also, JOHNNY TILLOTSON'S hit "Out Of My Mind" has yet to be issued on cd in stereo, for some reason. I know it has been released in stereo, because I have it on at least one lp that way. I don't know why these things just seem to disappear into the woodwork. |
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Name: Dave-o Thompson Website: From: Hershey PA Time: 1999-11-15 02:07:00 Comments: Aplogies for a lengthy post...after lurking for a couple weeks, I'm commenting on a few items... WHAT IS "OLDIES"? HAIRSPLITTING I submit that categorizing anything according to one's personal criteria, without taking into account Vox Populi, is a counter-productive detriment to communication. Sure you can choose to file YOUR Guess Who with Grass Roots or Genesis...but when talking to others, isn't it easier to converse if your definitions correspond to theirs? If your "Oldies" means "She Loves You" but not "All You Need Is Love" ...or, if my "Oldies" goes from Kennedy to Nixon while yours starts at Eisenhower...where's the common ground for communication and discussion? Say, a radio station playing "You Really Got Me" calls 'em "Oldies", another one plays "Lola", and it's "Classic Rock"...then ANOTHER one, boasting "All your favorite Oldies and Classic Rock, without the hard edge and elevator music", plays 50 over-researched soccer-mom favorites over and over, and becomes #1 in town; what do you call THAT playlist, and more importantly, how do you keep said soccer-mom from glazing-over when you talk about YOUR "Oldies"? DOWNLOADING: MUSIC'S FUTURE? Love the notion. Eliminates their manufacture cost; consolidates promotional expenses into 1 big product; has the variety we dream about. That idea, of course, is impossible as long as a big record company wants to keep retailers happy...they'd resist evolving if it means Sam Goody can't pay rent... and, Grandma still wants to walk into a store and touch that Yanni disc before buying it. ANYthing that eats into retails' market share will halt innovation, even good long-term solutions. That's why it took so long to dump the longbox (labels had to give the LP-cover makers something to make so they'd buy into moving customers from vinyl to CD), and that's what will keep big labels from embracing obvious technological/marketing improvements. Now, to rub salt into the wounds...what happens if the industry DOES embrace downloading, succeeding to the point where the micro-managers at the head office get excited and involved? "According to our studies JB, we'd run more efficiently and economically by offering only, I dunno, say, our top 40 downloaded titles on our server...we save re-mastering cost, bandwidth, storage and internet access charges - resources we can re-allocate towards marketing to promote those 40 titles..."! OLDIES RADIO STINKS BECAUSE OF THIS OR THAT... I do Oldies radio. We play what the largest pool of potential listeners tell us are "their" Oldies. We spend money and effort on research to get a consensus of what the largest pool of this largest pool will choose us for. Then we sell their attention spans to advertisers, so boss lets us keep doing what we love doing for a living. Sometimes I'll meet someone who loves Oldies, but isn't tied to the music economically as I am. He says we play the sames ones endlessly, we don't play enough of all the great songs out there, and NEVER play that one song that HIS research (i.e, his buddies agree) says my audience will ADORE us for playing. So I listen, and usually agree with most of it (emotionally, anyway). I consider his point of view. I answer him honestly, try to be helpful and encourage him to continue listening (I make a living doing what I love, remember). Then, I hold his opinion in one hand, and those of a half-a-million other listeners in the other, and see which one holds more weight. "Perception Is Reality", in action. In my narrow-minded, commerce-driven world, I don't see a problem. If you want to buy a radio, give us your time and sit through a few ads (even hopping to as many choices as you choose to live near), you get a pretty fair selection of music. If you want to buy a player, and pay the record store, you get an even wider selection of music. If you want to do a little research, a little power shopping on the net or while travelling, you'll get an even better, more personal selection of music your neighbor can't find. If you really canvas the shows, the trades and the traders, you'll find a music selection so wide and personal, nobody but those willing to expend the time, study, legwork and money, really deserve it. And, if you are willing to show the same ambivalence for fairness that Abco, Rhino and Phil Spector do, eventually you'll find somebody to sell you even the most personal of your holy grails... and break only a tenth of the law to do it (if posession really is the other nine-tenths)! Or to really satisfy yourself personally, spend a lifetime of artistic fulfillment learning to make your OWN music, knowing full well that the Allen Kleins of the world will probably take a heckuva lot more food from your mouths than any army of bootleggers ever could. |
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Name: Ken Garland From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-15 02:33:39 Comments: Marty if i could buy that Bear C/P for 249 and Stone for 98 i would be very happy. Beatlefan, i think you are correct about most of us born in the forties, but i even have rap music. I have however stop listening to music on the radio, the sure sign of old age. At least i i did not make my kids turn it off like my dad. PS, Marty was that your name in the Hard to Find booklet? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-15 02:22:15 Comments: To Dave 0' Thompson: Good rant! You've presented the situation eloquently. You are correct. I hate oldies radio. I think you've been in radio too long. |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-11-15 03:32:44 Comments: Dave-O... It's possible that in the short range, a kiosk type installation can be established in a Blockbuster or Tower environment whereby you can have a CD-R burned for you (perhaps 4x normal speed) while your buddy is browsing the bins to buy real CD's. Retail stores would not really be threatened by such a device; in fact they would probably receive some type of monthly payment from the company that installs the device on their premises. Years ago we had listening booths in which to play 45's or LP's. Now we have listening stations where you can preview CD's in headphones. So a "downloadable station(s)" in a retail store might be very practical within the next year or two. This could have great appeal to people who are not into computers or would not want to have to spend the time at home trying to figure out how to download MP3 files properly. (Remember, not everyone knows Beetlefan.) But I stand by the point I made in an earlier post. Record companies that provide such a service will still gravitate to the repertoire which will interest the mass audience. Presumably a manufacturer of such a kiosk device will try to sell every major label on being a participant in such a venture. In this scenario, you will be able to download a Pat Benatar song, a Puff Daddy song, a Johnny Burnette song, a Glenn Miller song and a Korn song (this person would have rather eclectic taste) on the same CD-R. But I strongly doubt that low and mid-chart singles by obscure artists of the 50's and 60's will ever be stopping by here just as I doubt that this type of esoteric material will ever be available from the major labels for downloading directly from the internet. I hope I'm proven wrong! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-15 12:53:37 Comments: To Dave, yes, I know you do, or else you wouldn't be there. I recently dealt with oldies radio in an employment situation. That's when your "rant" really drove home to me. But I don't think it's about entertainment as much as it is $$$. I've worked in radio. Too many little Nepoleons running around. Too many weirdos. Give some people in radio a little power and they think they're God. |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-15 13:13:58 Comments: I seldom listen to oldies radio anymore, for the same reasons that most others have cut back. Most of the oldies radio stations, (along with our local KLUV) cater to the female demographics. It's as simple as that. I don't mean to sound sexist, because I'm not, but most of the shoppers are women and they are the number one group that radio stations are most interested in reaching. They don't care about original versions, mono or stereo, or lp vs 45 versions. It's mostly "white noise" to women. Something to listen to while cleaning the house or doing the laundry. It's ok. We just have differences in tastes, for the most part. I still have a button set for KLUV, but I seldom listen any more. I don't care to hear the same old songs, over and over and over. So I listen to today's music, when I listen to the radio. Artists like SHERYL CROW, SUGAR RAY, OFFSPRING, COUNTING CROWS, COLLECTIVE SOUL, and dozens of others are great! And when I get home, I have my own radio station.... oldies by the thousands, to listen to. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-11-15 14:54:08 Comments: John P. It's almost like you could read my mind! I'm going to pose the question of why more women don't care for music the way we men do. I'll go to one of those forums that women frequent, I guess. There is a discussion about this very thing on the Pixelite recording forum. Someone there wondered the same thing. |
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Name: Doug Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 1999-11-15 20:45:18 Comments: To John Preston and Terry in Oregon: May I recommend the Varese cd: "Poetry in Motion: The Best of JOHNNY TILLOTSON" (VSD-5570)? It was compiled and co-produced by our very own Steve Massie and contains all of Johnny's big hits, including "Out of My Mind" in stereo. It's extremely well done: It includes a nice booklet and the songs are annotated in mono/stereo on the cd back, like they should be. Cary, this is how the White Whale compilation should have been done! |
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Name: Doug Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 1999-11-15 20:51:25 Comments: Re. my earlier post: Oops, didn't read far enough in the fine print. "Out of My Mind" is mono, as clearly stated on the back cover. Sorry, folks! However, the facts still stand that this is an excellent release. |
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Name: Paul Bigelow From: Austin, TX Time: 1999-11-15 21:50:08 Comments: I wonder if the Australian Peter & Gordon was created from the work that was(?) going into the (apparently) defunct U.S. EMI Legends of Rock and Roll series. I remember reading about the set but it never came out and it dissappeared along with the U.S. EMI's fortunes. |
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Name: Lex Bloom, Ahead To Stereo Time: 1999-11-15 22:20:33 Comments: To Dave-O: Hey hey hey - relax. There's still someone in this world who loves oldies as much as you do - yours truly. This schlub here grew up with "Duke Of Earl", "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" and "Da Doo Ron Ron", and yet he's only 43. I'm very distressed with the current music scene; where I try to make a living I get overdosed with Shawn Colvin, Celine Dion and the Backstreet Boys. But when I get home, I can brew a pot of Dunkin' Donuts coffee, switch on my stereo and play my beloved oldies. And yes, I still prefer my oldies IN STEREO. |
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Name: Carl From: Garden State Time: 1999-11-15 23:39:16 Comments: Dave-O! I don't know if you've been in radio too long, but there are some good medications out there! Seriously though, your passion is something I respect. Radio has evolved (if that is the correct word) into something that most of the people who are reading this don't let control their lives. You are extremely fortunate to be able to earn a living, doing something that you love to do. That of course colours your philosophy and stance on various points of interest. Much of what you said makes perfect sense, and we as oldies collectors are not your target audience whatsoever. If some of us have the wherewithal to remember and use as a reference, the GOLDEN AGE OF RADIO, when a dj in a medium market could almost choose what he wanted to play from a very large repository, as long as he kept to a proscribed format including the top 20 or so, don't hate us. Many djs had much more power than their program directors (and made more money, too.) There was a time when some djs were truly entertainers, not engineers with acceptable voices. Some markets had STAR DJ's that communicated so well with their audiences, that they seemed more like friends, than voices on the air. Not everybody had the talent to do that of course, but radio was a wonderful medium that allowed close communication and even intimacy. Now, in today's markets, most djs are hired for very temporary terms, and sound remarkably similar. Where did the personality go? I miss listening to a dj with whom I identified with, who I trusted to play music that I liked, because he knew the music, loved the music and played the music! Maybe such animals exist today, but certainly not in the New York market. Am I complaining? No, not really. Time marches on. Social values change, music reflects culture, and our culture is certainly different than it was thirty or forty years ago. So radio today is different as it must be, with mergers, and relaxing of FCC rules to allow duplicate ownership in certain markets. Is it better? No. Is it worse? No. Are there zillions of people out there who enjoy it? You bet! Bottom line: The bottom line. New York radio is just about sold out, across the board. I find that remarkable. I just would like something I'll never see: A Collectors Radio Station, playing all the best hits mingled with the most obscure oldies, not repeating a single song in a given month. ALL IN STEREO! And with warm, friendly, regular guy djs who did not talk down to the audience, have a sense of humour, and were knowledgable about the music they play. Well, I can dream, can't I? |
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Name: Dan Asvitt Website: Time: 1999-11-16 00:54:39 Comments: Carl, don't give up. There is exactly such a DJ as you describe here in the San Francisco area. It's on AM (where some of the most interesting radio is happening) so it's in mono, but that's OK (and how I remember it). Listeners complain because his show is so addicting that they can't stop listening to it. If it happened here it can happen where you are. |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-16 02:01:04 Comments: Well, how about it, Steve Massie? Will you tell us why "Out Of My Mind" was not released in stereo on the Johnny Tillotson cd (on Varese)? The stereo version is a real "knockout"! Also, I heard from a source many years ago that there is a stereo underdub of "Without You" by Tillotson. It does not contain the "dum, dum, dum, dum..maybe tomorrow, maybe in time, etc" overdub. I've never been able to verify that fact, however. Any word on that, Steve? I would love to have a two cd set of Johnny Tillotson hits and rarities, including any stereo underdubs, etc. from the Cadence label. |
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Name: Daryl From: Alpine, CA Time: 1999-11-16 03:29:18 Comments: Anyone have an idea of what clean copies of the 1st 4 Beatles MFSL LP's are going for these days? (Vinyl, cover condition unimportant.) Any sugestions on where to find them at a good price? Also, any comments on the CD remix of Yellow Submarine? (Not the DVD.) Thanks |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 1999-11-16 09:44:37 Comments: Bill Inglot did the remastering on that Johnny Tillotson CD. He went through all the Cadence (Barnaby) masters that were available and could not find the stereo of "Out Of My Mind" or "You Can Never Stop Me Loving You".Those tapes have been in a lot of places over the years which probably explains why they are very incomplete. The stereo version of "Out Of My Mind" that I have on vinyl has a brief intrumental intro (rather than the cold intro the single had) but otherwise is the correct take.Since that was one of the first CDs that Varese did we decided to go with the clean copy from tape rather than try to do a disc dub.As someone noted, it's mono on the Ace CD, too, so apparently they couldn't find a stereo source either.I have since taken the stereo copy from disc and cleaned it up and it sounds great, so I, too, would like to find a venue to make this cut available.As for "Without You" it's obvious that the song was cut multi-track and I've heard rumors of the undubbed version over the years but no one has found anything yet.I talked to Johnny Tillotson at one point and he really had no idea where the multi's might be on that song.I'm sure there's a very interesting story as to why all of his singles surrounding "Without You" were stereo and that cut came out in mono. |
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Name: John Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-11-16 15:21:37 Comments: I should be used to this by now, but I am so angry right now! A box set of four discs, 91 tunes, by Sammy Davis, Jr. and they left off the only tune I wanted, "Don't Blame the Children". Not some obscure song that never was released, but a Top 40 hit (and one of only 8 Top 40 hits the man had)! I am not a big fan of Mr Davis's style of music, but I want the Top 40 of the 60s on cd. I would have shelled out the money for an entire box set to get that one song (in stereo, for sure). Go figure! |
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Name: R.D.Rader From: Seattle WA Time: 1999-11-16 16:15:30 Comments: Help out there----where can I find out about the "Rag Dolls"----"Dusty" (on Mala)----"Society Girl" (Parkway???)----are they now or have they ever been on CD----at this point I'll be satisfied with stereo or mono----were they a Bob Crewe/Bob Gaudio production???----I have the 45 of "Dusty"----and a partial tape recording of "Society Girl"----or are these in the "never to be on CD" category???----Who were these girls???----Thanks for your time consuming site----been here for 3 hours today. |
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Name: Marty Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 1999-11-16 19:55:35 Comments: I agree with Brother John Preston. The omission of "Don't Blame The Children" by Sammy Davis, Jr. is a BIG MINUS against Rhino's box set. That Sammy took a stand to admonish parents for their children's behavior may be politically incorrect today, but the 45 was one of the most memorable recordings he ever made. Maybe it will turn up on a future "Golden Throats" collection of pre-rap raps. And why the opportunity wasn't taken to license his one-shot Motown recording of "Hello Detroit" also makes me boil. I mean, the box set is well done, but it defeats its primary marketability, which is to dazzle collectors with more than just "The Candy Man." |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-11-17 09:52:58 Comments: The two instrumental compilations from ERIC Records are now available and in the stores. Here's the tracks: "HARD-TO-FIND ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTALS:" AROUND THE WORLD (MAIN TITLE) - Victor Young (stereo); RUBY - Richard Hayman; MORITAT: A THEME FROM "THE THREEPENNY OPERA" - Dick Hyman Trio; "THE MEDIC" THEME (BLUE STAR) - Les Baxter; TRACY'S THEME - Spencer Ross (stereo); SOUL COAXING (AME CALINE) - Raymond Lefevre (stereo); MARIA ELENA - Los Indios Tabajaras (stereo); CHARMAINE - Mantovani (stereo); SHANGRI-LA - Robert Maxwell (stereo); THE HOMECOMING - Hagood Hardy (stereo); THEMES FROM "THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM - Richard Maltby; THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY - Victor Young; WONDERLAND BY NIGHT - Bert Kaempfert (stereo); STRANGER ON THE SHORE - Mr. Acker Bilk (stereo); ONLY YOU - Franck Pourcel's French Fiddles; SONG FROM "M.A.S.H." - Al DeLory (stereo); LOVE IS BLUE (L'AMOUR EST BLEU) - Paul Mauriat (stereo); WHEN THE WHITE LILACS BLOOM AGAIN - Helmut Zacharias; LIMELIGHT - Frank Chacksfield (stereo); CRY - The Knightsbridge Strings "HARD-TO-FIND POP INSTRUMENTALS:" STAR WARS / CANTINA BAND - Meco (stereo); THE "THIRD MAN" THEME - Anton Karas; "CRAZY OTTO" MEDLEY - Johnny Maddox; MIDNIGHT IN MOSCOW - Kenny Ball & His Jazzmen (stereo); WASHINGTON SQUARE - The Village Stompers (stereo); THE ENTERTAINER - Marvin Hamlisch (stereo); MUSIC BOX DANCER - Frank Mills (stereo); PETITE FLEUR - Chris Barber's Jazz Band; TEA FOR TWO CHA CHA - Tommy Dorsey Orchestra featuring Warren Covington (stereo); MANHATTAN SPIRITUAL - Reg Owen & His Orchestra (stereo); PERCOLATOR (TWIST) - Billy Joe & the Checkmates; SOFT SUMMER BREEZE - Eddie Heywood; ALABAMA JUBILEE - The Ferko String Band (stereo); FOREVER - The Little Dippers, a/k/a The Anita Kerr Quartet (stereo); KEEM-O-SABE - The Electric Indian (stereo); MARCH FROM "BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI" & "COLONEL BOGEY" - Mitch Miller (stereo); POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE (THE GRADUATION SONG) - Adrian Kimberly; THE DIS-ADVANTAGES OF YOU - The Brass Ring (stereo); NATIONAL CITY - The Joiner, Arkansas Junior High School Band; MAH NA MAH NA - Piero Umiliani, from the "Sweden, Heaven & Hell" soundtrack (45 version, stereo). These really live up to their titles. Many of the tracks have not been issued since the original 45s and LPs went out-of-print in the 1960s! With 20 tracks per disc, they're a great value, too! |
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Name: jonr Website: Phil Spector`s Wall Of Sound Time: 1999-11-17 10:37:58 Comments: Dion & Dion & the Belmonts......Anyone have any info on a nice stereo cd comp ? Mostly interested in finding Dion`s Columbia output in nice true stereo.Donna,The Prima Donna,Ruby baby,Drip Drop and This little Girl. |
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Name: Ray Soper From: Sydney, Australia Time: 1999-11-17 12:05:10 Comments: Hey guys. Mike, can you please put the html phrase for "start new paragraph" on the message board page so that we Komputer Klutzes can write in paragraphs. Just insert the letters BR in "less than" and "greater than" brackets twice. These are the symbols above the comma and period on the keyboard. - MC The site is getting better and better, and it is great to see so much involvement from the guys that have given us much of the great sounds we have had over the past so many years. Great music really is a soundtrack for our lives and we owe a great debt of gratitude to the artists, the producers, and yes the record companies for bringing it to us. I have been intrigued by the problems that everybody seems to have finding a market. As a businessman in another field, I can't but help that Dale Carnegie's aphorism "In every complaint an opportunity" applies. As a punter, it feels hard for me to access the good tracks. I don't mind paying if I get good product, but I really remember if I pay top $$ and get burned. I had a very sad experience with an Ella Fitzgerald cd where I paid top dollar to find her far from her best. What we need is a label that stands for "The Best In Oldies" that gathers together the best work of Rhino, Varese, Taragon, Eric, et al and puts "The Best in Oldies" seal of approval around it. There could be themed packaging and the record stores could be provided with point of sale display stuff. It could be supported with reviews books that are given away for free, and a Web Site where people can search, read reviews, find out which are the most popular, top 10s etc. and even place orders. There MUST be a market for this stuff world wide that would knock the socks of the 10,000 limits if done properly. Fact is for most of us baby boomers, the music we will happily pay for is not Nine Inch Nails or Rap, or Hip Hop, Techno and Dance. Lots of us now have a few more dollars, and are open to finding great new (for us) songs from the oldies treasure trove. I have been stimulated by this board to consider listening to Joni James, Johnny Tillotson, and many others. Trouble is, I never have Mike's book with me when I am in the record store, and the record label names are in such small print that I am struggling to see Taragon, Eric etc. All it needs is an ageing entrepreneur (a Richard Branson) to commit to it, and it will happen. What we need is a business plan outlining what can be done. "The Best in Oldies" could contract with the big labels to handle the download issues. It could give a lucrative place of employment for the great producers and engineers to clean up the back archives, and put the product out. It could provide market access for little labels like Eric and Taragon. What do you all reckon?? |
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Name: Larry Davis From: Longview WA Time: 1999-11-17 12:39:17 Comments: Thanks for the information Tom. I've had the Eric instrumental CDs on order from CD Universe for several weeks now and was wondering why they were still on backorder. "Limelight" must be a remake to be in stereo? They weren't recording in stereo in 1953 were they? Yet, you list Frank Pourcel's "Only You" from 1959 as not in stereo. That's one I would have expected to be in stereo......Larry |
Bill Knoble's comments on Columbia era Dion are
on target (hi Bill), but I am not so sure that Bronx Blues -- which really has all the hits on a single CD -- is
out of print. I see it around here often.
I'll second the notion on the Time-Life Supremes collection.
Although the sound quality could be improved on, I don't think you'll find much better out there that offers
the essentials at such a reasonable price. And, John P, if the local Wherehouse Music stores are any
indication of how well the Time-Life series is doing, then it is pretty obvious that marketing oldies product
through traditional channels just doesn't cut it. Many of the recent issues have already been relegated to
the clearance bins here, and I know of one copy of 1959 Rock & Roll Era that has been in the bins of
one mall store here through 4 name changes (about 8 years) -- now there's a heads up store manager
for you.
Oldies radio. Hmmm, don't know where it might have come from that I might take a position
on oldies radio in general. The station out of New Orleans I mentioned some weeks ago continues to
amaze me by the unusual content it broadcasts, but fear not, they otherwise operate under the same
sorts of standards that any station would. They are there to make a profit for the owners, and no other
reason. THAT IS the American way, after all. We've got to have SOMEONE generating income so taxes
can be paid, doncha know? I listen to that oldies station ONLY when I am out of range of the weak AM
Talk Radio station here in Baton Rouge -- or when they're broadcasting LSU sports programming.
I have just obtained a reviewer copy of the new STEVIE WONDER box set "AT THE CLOSE OF THE CENTURY" and the reported "remix" of "FINGERTIPS" is in MONO!
That's right. Stereo collectors who, like me, swallowed the bait of a feature story about the release in the November issue of ICE magazine, are forewarned. Yet again, here was another golden opportunity to upgrade the Motown catalog for the 21st century, and all we get are 14 extra seconds of crowd noise and an additional announcement that composer Clarence Paul arranged the song. B-I-G DEAL!!!!
Because my face is beet red, I've just sent reissue producer Harry Weinger an email inquiry about my dissatisfaction with the "Fingertips" track. If he answers, you'll be the first to know.
I am sorry for the misunderstanding that the newly mixed track was in stereo.
We -- Universal Music engineer Kevin Reeves and I -- first made a decision to even to a mix when: a) we discovered the master tape, and b) found it sounded so good, especially the rhythm section, which has always been distorted on the released versions. To our ears it was shockingly good and the fidelity there was paramount, since it would be the opening track of the set.
Because the master is only three-track, "stereo" would have meant panning the drums hard left, the horns IF they were miked separately hard right (and those tracks leak into each other anyway).
That just didn't work for us; the best fidelity was found by mixing it the way it was painstakingly mixed for its original release, in mono.
Also, we did not use any limiting or hard compression, which is how the single was done. The audience is quite prominent (because) the compression whooooshes them up in the mix. We just wanted the music itself to sound the best, not hype it up. For this collection, Stevie's 12-year-old enthusiasm is good enough on its own.
I want to sincerely thank Mr. Weinger for his speedy reply and for sharing his insights behind remixing "Fingertips." Although the trade-off may not sit well with the BSN community, his rationale, by professional standards, does merit my respect.
I recently picked up a copy of the Motown 3-record Set "Looking Back" by Stevie Wonder. There is a Stereo version of the song "Fingertips" on it, but I have been told that it is an alternet take then the Mono version. I know the song I have is in Stereo, I own it, I have heard it, but then again, this could be a different version...
The "Fingertips" on my copy of "Looking Back" is in stereo. It's not great stereo, but it is still stereo. In fact, every song on this 3 record set it in stereo. I don't know what is going on..... maybe I have some sort of rare pressing of the album..... The only thing I didn't say before is that the song on the record is actually called "Fingertips Pt. II". I should have said this eariler, but this is still in stereo. I have been told that the version on this record is an alternet take, not the version that was final. I know Motown always had problems re-releasing songs in stereo (a good example is "Get Ready" by the Temptations, the stereo re-mix is a dramatic difference then the mono single version, but it is the same recording, just mixed quite different). I don't know what's up with all of this, but the copy I have IS in stereo. The ID number of my copy is M-804LP3.
Wow, finally some hope for C/P reissues (?) ..and after I finally "caved" & got my first "import" Chubby Checker CD!
OK, so I was up a bit too late the other nite with my Sonics rendezvous.. fetchin the foot-longs, I see my obvious mistake (due to cheesy cover art with giant "the SONICS BOOM" & "!!! HERE ARE THE SONICS !!!" on "Full Force" (Etiquette ETLP 1184) 1984 compilation). It's easy to asume that Etiquette's legit. reissues may be boots due to the low (by today's standards) end graphic reproduction ( my "Full Force" has "duotone" blue-isn photocopy-ish photo of group ("!!!Here Are....!!!" shot) pasted on front). Stereo sound on "Full Force" ain't as great as wide , crisp "!!Here Are..!!!" stereo reissue ("The Witch" is not stereo, but at least isn't a disc dub, like on "Full Force"). "Full Force", by the way has a whole buncha sound disclaimers/double-speak on back in fine print..."NOTE:..mono with a stereo broadened effect" , "ALSO NOTE: This is screaming RAW-K 'N' ROLL. Captured on recording machines (pushing (sic) to the limit) using the simul-track or ping pong methods. (Say what ?) It is mastered from the best possible master tapes and original discs...." ("The Witch" would have to fall into this latter category). Stereo Sonics seekers should snag "!!! Here Are...!!!" LP, it's where most stereo reissued Sonics cuts were originally.."Boss Hoss", "Strychnine", "Psycho".....(WAAAAAAAAAAGH !!!!").
What is "STRICTLY STEREO" CD mentioned here ???
"What key ?!! What key ?!!!": Stevie's "Looking Back" came out first, was withdrawn as he & Motown haggled over his contract(s) & renewal & ownership of his 60's masters, then was re-issued as "Anthology". Full stereo "Fingertips" ?!?! Let's hear where we can get it !!
Amen & Hallelujah & Right on & You go ...(well, you get the idee...) to TD's 11-22 "Mono in a Stereo world" post-it note ! Have said same from my first message here - mono maniacs, how about giving us all a break -- release the stereo and add a note in the fine print ( in place of the usual pithy, self-righteous bull #%$^#@! footnotes of "..mono rocks !" or "original singles mixes") saying "For those of you who want to hear the flat, lifeless sound of monaural, please flip the mode switch on your stereo amplifier/receiver to 'mono'..."
Gads! burned again - in what might be old news to most here, after reading a review in an otherwise reliable guide to "Roots & Rhythm & Rock & Really Random Reissue Reviews", I got the Rhino Ben E. King 2 CD cuz they said it was "all stereo !!!" Shoulda known better as some ("There Goes My Baby") have never been stereo, others ("Lonely Wind") are impossible to find... bottom line - it's all MONO !!!
Agree that research/lists would be handy to get a hold of for stereo sources……...
OH! - hey ! that "Oldies on CD" book !!!! How about a hint on when it'll be done !?
…….Meanwhile, sure would be a worthwhile project to make a list of what's out there in stereo from (harsh, to these 2 ears) mono 4 CD "NUGGETS" so a "CD-R" replacement set can be cooked up so we all can toss the discs that came with the box.... same goes for "Beg Scream & Shout", Aretha Franklin, Young Rascals, ....geez, most all recent Rhinos !!! OK, time for me to "Bag, Scram & Snore" !
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