This page contains all the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board during December, 1999. They are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific topics, use the "find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
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Name: Mike & Brenda
Callahan Website: Both Sides Now Publications From: Virginia, USA Time: 1999-12-02 16:11:01 Comments: Well, wasn't that fun? Two weeks of the server being down, and they still haven't fixed it. Folks are getting antsy. We have moved the chat board to a different server. Although several people have suggested that we move from GuestWorld, we like their features and after looking at alternatives, decided that a switch of servers within the GuestWorld family would be best. One BSN Chat Board regular sent an e-mail extolling the virtues of his chat board server, how there had never been a problem, etc., only to have it crash and lose all previous messages the next day. These things are finicky, even in the best of times. Fortunately, we have been regularly saving the messages on the Chat Board, and they are now available in the updated Archives, which is now current to November 17, 1999. I tried to download the later messages when the board was temporarily up on Sunday, but couldn't. Eventually, they will be again available, and I will update the archives from November 17 to today. We now plan to retain this Chat Board as the main BSN Board, and not go back to the other one. When it comes on line again, we may use it for discography-related questions (Discography Chat Central?). Meanwhile.... we're BAAAACK! |
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Name: Groovin
Garrett Website: WPON-AM 1460 Detroit on the Web...for the best in rare oldies, webcast 24 hours a day. Time: 1999-12-03 10:13:22 Comments: Glad to see the board is back.... I'm curious as to how the overall sound quality is on the recent Westside release "Beyond The Valley of the Dimension Dolls". Has there been any effort to clean up the "master" of Carole King's "It Might As Well Rain Until September" (story goes, the "master tape" is simply a dub of the acetate master), and if there's any stereo here. Also, was "Mah-Na-Mah-Na" on the recent Hard To Find Pop Instrumentals a remix from the multi-track or what? The echo a bit much on the vocal..... |
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Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, TX Time: 1999-12-03 10:39:10 Comments: On a recent trip in the South, I tuned in many an "oldies" and "classic rock" radio station and noticed something strange: 1) Oldies stations referred to themselves as "Cool" 2) Classic rock referred to themselves as "Arrow, Eagle, or Hawk" Could these stations all be owned by the same company, or is it coincidence, or does it have something to do with whatever company is supplying the music format? Any opinions on the recent Motown Stevie Wonder set? Is it mono, stereo, anything new? Thanks, Paul |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-03 10:51:49 Comments: I recently listened on headphones to "Fingertips Pt. II" on my copy of Stevie Wonder's Looking Back LP anthology... It's definitely reprocessed and NOT true stereo. The info etched in the end groove (side 1) is "M 804LP3-D5RS-7618-1- 06C -- 1 -- 111". |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-03 12:30:27 Comments: Regarding "Mah Na Mah Na" on the Eric volume of HARD-TO-FIND POP INSTRUMENTALS, the 45 version was never mixed to stereo by the Italian label that owns it. They supplied an electronic stereo "master," which we rejected. By doing some comparison with the stereo LP version, we discovered that the 45 version was an edit of the LP version that ran longer, since the edit involved a loop back to :26 into the song. I re-edited the LP version to match the 45 version, otherwise we'd have ended up with either electronic stereo or a mono disc dub. Bill Buster and I believe we made the right choice opting for creating a stereo issue of the 45 edit, as do many customers who have emailed us about our work on the track. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-03 13:18:03 Comments: Paul, Those names you hear on those oldies and classic rock radio stations are "product" names of radio satalite services. The "cool" one is a product of Westwood One out of Santa Monica, California. We have them here in Arizona too. They're national, and they're irritating! All they do is play their carefully researched oldies that they've determined that people remember. So you get the same things over and over and over... The Stevie Wonder box appears to be all stereo except "Fingertips Pt. 2", which we all now know is a new mono remix. It has all LP length tracks. It still doesn't have ALL the hits, and despite earlier reports, it does have "Master Blaster (Jammin'). I'm not getting it because I already have all the LP length versions. I have to believe that someday they will remaster his individual CD's from the 70's and 80's. beetle |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-03 13:29:40 Comments: As I said, one of the country stations in my area is part of the "Real Country" satellite service based out of Tempe, Arizona. This is the only station that I get in my area that broadcasts vintage and current country in the same mix, while a 100% local country station in my area plays mostly current country and nothing else although they do claim to play "All Time Favorites" which they seem only to go as far back as 1986 unless the artists are still on the charts. |
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Name: Dave-o Thompson Website: From: Hershey PA Time: 1999-12-03 15:49:06 Comments: I take issue with Beatlefan's comment on all "Cool" stations being owned by one owner; just ain't so. Westwood One is a syndicator service, and they supply the programming. The "positioners", jingles and voice-over announcements particilar to that particular station's name, are added electronically. I work at a station called "Kool", and we've been programmed in-house for 10 years now. My wife, on the other hand, worked with another syndicator service - Jones Sattelite, in Denver - and before she went on any of the formats, would record literally hundreds of station identifiers, slogans and other things to help customize every station subscribing to the service. You will find, however, that many radio stations of the same format will enlist the programming advice of a mere handfull of consultants, several of which will reccommend the same tactics/slogans uses as they used in other markets (Why? One, because they have evidence of it working, and that's their bottom line...and two, because in some cases they own the rights to particular phrases, or have a deal with houses that sing the jingles, or have access to other production/imaging pieces that allow a station to sound unique for a fraction of the price they'd pay to have something dreamed-up just for them). |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-03 19:40:55 Comments: Dave-O-Thompson, I probably wasn't articulate with my reply but I did mention that Westwood One IS a satelite service. I didn't say the owned all the stations. It's the way radio stations operate on the cheap so there's minumum overhead. But, I don't think the "cool" thing is trademarked. I've had experience with one of these stations. |
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Name: Carl
Shell From: Greater New York Metro Time: 1999-12-03 20:34:37 Comments: Hey, it's nice to see this site up and running again. Really missed daily check-ins to see what everyone is up to. I think I know more than I ever need to know about the Stones stereo, Stevie's new box, Stax recordings, and Animals mono. I have received some great information here and I hope to utilize it with great results in 2000, along with my copy of THE BOOK. There is something I would like to pass along to others who enjoy oldies well programmed on the net. rondiamond.com is simply one of the most entertaining shows around. He does about forty five minutes devoted to a particular theme. Sometimes just regular broadcasts. What sets him apart is the expertise he brings in blending the music. The sets are perfectly assembled, and he brings a genuine sense of communication to the broadcast. Sound is exemplary compared to some of the muddy crap I've endured because the program content was really good. He has a classy site and you can listen to any show you want to as many times as you want to as long as it's posted. Radio programmers across the country should listen to how it can be done, and learn. |
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Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 1999-12-03 21:24:24 Comments: Recently got more 45s. Reissue 45 of Neil Diamond's Cracklin Rosie/He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother says mono both sides. Actually stereo. Rip-off!!!! Chicago mono 45s very good, powerful sound. Surprise! Surprise! Got RCA Living Stereo 45 of Jaye P. Morgan for $1.99! Sounds fabulous, really wide stereo. Maybe I'll buy one of them new-fangled stereophonic hi-fis after all! I'll keep you informed. See ya! |
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Name: Marty Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-03 22:18:36 Comments: Thank God the BSN site is still here. Whew. I had this strange dream the other night that all the regular members had committed suicide to protest the mono mix of "Fingertips"! |
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Name: Larry
Naramore Website: From: Sun Valley, Ca. Time: 1999-12-04 01:23:02 Comments: Listened to DCC Compact Classics re-issue of Johnny Cash's Sunday Morning Coming Down album again. Great stereo mixes!, great sound!. Anyone have any info i.e. sound quality on Collectable's Frankie Laine two-fer Rockin/Hell Bent For Leather re-issue? Thanks! |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 1999-12-04 08:41:05 Comments: Hmmm, any truth to the rumor that a label whose name rhymes with wino bought your server and decided to process all chat board material with a Univac??? |
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Name: Dave
Breathe Time: 1999-12-04 09:00:50 Comments: Just to complete the Stevie Wonder box-set drama, "Until you come back to me" is in MONO as always... Surely it was in Mono on the "Looking Back" 3LP set too, despite claims that all trax were stereo on some copies of that album? ...I like the box-set! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 1999-12-04 10:49:13 Comments: Re Tom Daly, "Mah-Na-Mah-Na" stereo mix: I wasn't at all criticising the version on the new CD at all. I'd never heard the stereo LP version, therefore I wasn't aware of the stereo mix w/the echo. You did a super job re-editing and mastering the track, as well as the rest of the CD. Kudos to you and Bill Buster! Have "Tall Paul", "First Name Initial", or either version of "O Dio Mio" (all Annette songs) ever appeared in stereo? I know Buena Vista wasn't keen on stereo to begin with, but then again..... Finally, this past Halloween I was listening to some tracks by John Zacherle (Halloween parody songs), and noticed that some of them use the same backing track as their Cameo/Parkway hit companions. I believe Mike brought this up in an edition of BSN some time ago, but this raises an eyebrow as to the existence of at least 2-track masters of some of this material. I read recently that Reco-Art, even though fond of mono, used a twin-track for some time. |
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Name: Richard
Otis From: Bellingham, Wash. Time: 1999-12-04 11:55:13 Comments: Hi from Richard, I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge of any of Verdelle Smith's Capitol material appearing on cd such as her minor hits of "In My Room" and "Tar and Cement"? |
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Name: jim
faro From: l.i., new york Time: 1999-12-04 15:36:22 Comments: does anyone know if bob luman's "you've got everything" is available on cd -stereo. i have a 45. i also have his "let s think about livin' " in stereo. a lso, does anyone have wmca dj in ny from 63-65- b. mitchel reed's- theme song or scott muni' s from wabc in ny. thanks for any help. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-04 17:19:05 Comments: To Jim Faro - Mitch's theme was "Hand Clappin' " by Red Prysock on Mercury. (This was a theme that many rock jocks used during that era.) Scott's theme was an English single issued here on Capitol called "Grasshopper Jump" by Tommy Watts. It wasn't a hit record but it was a great radio theme song. |
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Name: Jim
Warrick From: Burke, VA Time: 1999-12-04 18:32:15 Comments: I recently received the ROLLING STONES - STRICTLY STEREO CD from Discollector. Enclosed with the CD was some promo material, including a sheet advertising a 2 CD collection of THE BEATLES 1st 4 British albums ("Please Please Me"; "With the Beatles"; "A Hard Days Night"; and, "Beatles for Sale"). 54 Tracks in all, billed as "Original Master Recordings" and "true stereo". All this for $24.99. This seems to fall into the "too good to be true" category. Does anyone know anything about this 2 CD collection? Is it CDs made from records? Or is it truly original master recordings? Any help would be appreciated. |
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Name: Ed
Carr From: Northport, NY Time: 1999-12-04 23:15:32 Comments: I have an tape of what I thought were old recordings from the 1930's, but the music is in stereo and is engineered to sound old. It's obviously a re-make of old hits by a group of very talented musicians, and I would love to know who they are. The songs include "I'm Dancing With Tears in My Eyes", "Little White Lies", "It Looks Like Rain in Cherry Blossom Lane", "Caberet", "Mame", and others. I made the tape from an oldies radio station that played these songs all in a row (all by the same artist) back around 1974. Does anyone out know who the artist(s) of this re-made music might be? Ed Carr Northport, NY |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-05 02:03:34 Comments: Anyone thinking of getting that RENE AND RENE cd, just released by Varese, be forewarned: All of it is hissy mono, except "Angelito", which is hissy stereo. It was mastered by Bill Inglot and Dan Hersch. We all know that Inglot does not believe in cleaning up anything, much less releasing the stereo versions. It's ironic that "Angelito" was included in stereo, noisy or not. |
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Name: Sergio
Ventura From: Brazil Time: 1999-12-05 08:55:27 Comments: I'm looking for a CD version of an old LP named 'Ecstasy' from 'Otto Cesana'. I've searched the net and I only found some used LP's. If anyone knows where I can find this CD (whether it exists), please mail me. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-05 10:40:26 Comments: To Ed Carr: A couple of bands released stereo recordings like the one you've described: Gary Lawrence & his Sizzling Syncopators released albums on Blue Goose (BG 2020) and Columbia. The Pasadena Roof Orchestra recorded and released an album on Reward/CBS (FW-39135). This LP was partially produced by Bill Buster of ERIC Records. Neither of the two LPs for which I provided catalog numbers contain the songs you mentioned, so it's possible they're on Gary Lawrence's Columbia LP, which I don't have. |
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Name: P. Gordon Time: 1999-12-05 13:22:11 Comments: "Woman" in stereo??? You decide. www.petergordon.homepage.com |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-05 13:27:59 Comments: To Jim Warrick: I ordered the Beatles' Original Master Recordings CD from DisCollector at the same time as the Rolling Stones' Strictly Stereo. What a treasure trove! Both collections have outstanding sound quality and are all stereo (except "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You" on the OMR CD.) The Beatles discs may have been mastered from vinyl, but if so it was probably from mint copies of the Mobile Fidelity audiophile releases of the first four British LPs. To Dave Breathe: Yes, "Until You Come Back to Me" is mono on the Stevie Wonder Looking Back LP. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-05 17:24:13 Comments: To Groovin' Garrett, As a long time collector of Annette, I have never heard Tall Paul, First Name Initial or O Dio Mio in stereo. Pineapple Princess and Walkin' and Talkin' are some of the earliest stereo recordings I've heard by Annette. Disney released a two CD box set a few years ago that included studio chatter with Tall Paul. This means they had the session tape (or at least a copy of it). If it was recorded in stereo, they have never opted to release it that way. I have a lot of authorized reissues of Annette that include LP's from EMI New Zealand and CD's from Japan. No stereo version of the songs you mentioned. Everything she did after about 1960 was in stereo (most of her beach movie stuff). |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: S F Bayarea Time: 1999-12-06 04:05:23 Comments: Losr earlier in internet space: Just received my copy of "Frank Guida presents Best of Norfolk"[If you want to be Happy?] The title song is in very good stereo, better than Soul's best of or Toga party. New Orleans is brighter than before and "Dear Lady Twist" has good stereo, but dull sound? What happened Walter? Worth buying for "Night with Daddy G" in mono but good sound. I received the Time/Life catalog, recently and noticed the "Your Hit Parade section. Missing were the great 60's disc's, I called and the lady there, told me "they were being discontinued". I immediately phoned CCM and placed my order for all three, great selection of one of a kind stereo hits, be warned collectors! Also have "Beats" Beatle disc from Discol. I agree with most comments, good sound, don't know origin of masters, mostly stereo. Can't wait for Hard to Find 45's vol. 4 on order. Thanks Tom! |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 1999-12-06 07:31:56 Comments: Reissue Record Label URL's Does anybody know the URL's for the following companies?: 1] Bear Family 2] Westside 3] Sequel / Castle Communications 4] Relic (I've heard they're out-of-business, but any website with their catalog listed will do) For your help, here are some you may not have: Ace (U.K): http://www.acerecords.co.uk Collectables: http://www.oldies.com Del-Fi/DF2K: http://www.del-fi.com Eric: http://www.ericrecords.com Legacy (Sony/Columbia/Epic): http://legacyrecordings.com Razor & Tie: http://www.razorandtie.com Repertoire: http://www.repertoire-records.com Sundazed: http://www.sundazed.com Taragon: http://www.cdmo.com/cgi-bin/cdmo/taragon?78GpmQRA;;9 Varese Sarabande: www.varesesarabande.com Thanks for your help. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-06 07:56:35 Comments: Bill, Bear Family's URL is http://www.bear-family.de |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-12-06 08:23:02 Comments: Bill, Westside website is http://www.vci.co.uk/music/mindex.shtml Scroll down to the Westside logo and click on it. Their site was still months out of date though, the last time I checked. |
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Name: Alan
Carner From: Fort Smith Time: 1999-12-06 16:05:32 Comments: There is a Bear Family Box set on Charlie Walker called Pick me up on Your Way Down. Does anyone know if the Song, San Diego, is in Stereo. Thanks for the help. |
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Name: Dave
Dzurick From: Tucson Time: 1999-12-06 17:34:11 Comments: Charlie Walker's San Diego is in beautiful, clean stereo on the Bear Family Box. Dave |
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Name: Roger
Round From: Vancouver , Canada Time: 1999-12-06 22:40:10 Comments: I was browsing on Muze and i came across a Best Of Herman's Hermits available on a Pegasus/Cleopatra label. It says 18 trax in stereo. Does anybody have any info on this it was released 09/1999. Also I picked up Bobby Darin best of 1966-69 for the one track "Long Line Rider" in stereo .There are only 3 trax in stereo but for me it was worth it 'cause I've never heard that track in stereo before. Just thought I'd share that with you. Thanx |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-06 22:53:51 Comments: Roger, the Cleopatra Herman's Hermits compilation probably contains re-recordings. ABKCO does have the US rights to their original recordings and has their own compilation released. |
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Name: Boppin
Brian Website: From: So Cal Time: 1999-12-07 05:58:09 Comments: RECORD LABELS ON THE "WWW".......there are dozens---no 100s---- no jillions more informative web pages out there, for starters, try the dozens of record labels' sites under any of the better "Links" pages like ACE (U.K.)'s. There are several sources for minimal info (track listings & cover shots at least) on RELIC CDs (now turning up as cutouts for under $10 each ! Yikes!). Basic "Doo Wop" CD listings? try: http://www.doowopshoobop.com/index.html I actually find All Music Guide (http://allmusic.com/) most helpful, but, again, they don't list all of the Relic titles. Entering "Relic" or "Golden Age of Doo Wops" in a "search" will get you many of what they issued. Looks like Collectables has been busy re-releasing many of the Relic collections, with , of course, their typical crappy cover art..... Can anyone comment on "Eva" label CDs by Standells, 13th Floor Elevators, etc. ? How about any of the Elevators' I.A. material -- anywhere in stereo on CD? Norton (www.nortonrecords.com) reply to my recent email defends their mono - only SONICS & non-Rastafarian WAILERS Etiquette stance, sayin "Regarding our LP's and CD's on the Etiquette stuff. Everything is in Mono. Wailers are first to admit that the stereo Wailers sound bad. MONO MONO MONO. If that upsets you, so sorry!" and "There ARE no stereo masters. Mono masters are the only ones that still exist." ...and the beat goes on........BYE ! ! ! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 1999-12-07 10:53:56 Comments: OK, the plot thickens.....someone put up an MP3 file (17 sec. long) of the instrumental break in Peter & Gordon's "Woman". Thing is, it's true stereo. The horns are hard left, and the rhythm track is right, but there is no "duophonic" channel-cross. There is a true track seperation here. Problem is, none of the vocals are here! You be the judge. The file is at www.petergordon.homepage.com. |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-12-07 11:02:38 Comments: Re: Relic Records. Another good source of info and track listings for Relic cd's is www.cdconnection.com. You can search by mfg's label and bring up the whole list, plus most have track lists and Liquid Audio to hear parts of tracks. And they have been very good at obtaining any of the Relic cd's I was missing. |
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Name: Jay
Johnston From: London, Ontario Time: 1999-12-07 11:52:52 Comments: I spoke too soon regarding CD Connection. Just went on the site and found only 44 of the Relic cds listed. That's almost 100 less than were on there about two weeks ago, so if you still want some of them, order fast! I don't think they will last much longer, guess the well is drying up. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-07 15:12:42 Comments: In case they're some Motown freaks out there (and I know you're there), I just received a cd of Stevie Wonder's original "Up-tight Everything's Alright" from overseas. No bonus tracks, just the twelve tracks that were on the original lp, in pristeen stereo (remastered using 24-bit technology by Kevin Reeves). I am fast becoming a Kevin Reeves fan. But why hasn't this disc been released in the U.S.? Plans may be to release it someday, but the import version was released last year! Ever feel like a second class citizen, in your own country? It's amazing how good these Motown lps still sound, even after all these years. Even though "Blowin'In The Wind", "With a Child's Heart", "Nothing's Too Good For My Baby", and the title track all made the R&B Top 10, there are several tracks here that would have probably been hits, if they had been released as singles ("Teach Me Tonight", "Ain't That Asking For Trouble", I Want My Baby Back", among others). Why do I get the feeling that this cd was held up, so that it wouldn't interfere with "THE" box set sales? |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-07 19:25:46 Comments: John Preston, You're probably correct. Also, the licencing laws are different overseas. And I don't think they're so concerned with moving x-number of units. I really hate it when you can get stuff as imports but you can't get them here. It seems people in Europe have a deeper appreciation of classic soul/r&b music than here. beetlefan |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 1999-12-07 19:47:27 Comments: To John Preston: Kevin Reeves may be fantastic at remastering the Stevie Wonder "Uptight" album for CD, but as I read from Marty not so long ago, he was one of the two gentlemen (Harry Weinger was the other) who decided to remaster "Fingertips" in MONO. By the way, as a lot of the Stevie albums went in the 70s and beyond, the tunes would always segue or crossfade into one another. That always irked me. Is that the way the box set goes? |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-07 21:40:26 Comments: John, Stevie's "Uptight" album was released on CD in the US back in the 1980's with the catalog number MOTD-5183. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-07 22:52:22 Comments: To Brad, We know. We're referring to the new remasters. To Lex: Remixing something into mono does not make Kevin Reeves a bad engineer any more than issuing mono versions makes Bill Inglot a bad engineer. I only wish I had their talent and experience. Also, tight edits and crossfades are Stevie Wonder's trademarks, as is Earth Wind and Fire's and Paul McCratney's trademarks. I like them. I'm starting to do the same on some of my homemade CD-R's where it works. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-08 02:05:20 Comments: Lex, I suspect that if Harry Weinger was the man in charge, Mr Reeves had to do what he was told, in regards to mono vs stereo, on "Fingertips". I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I'm convinced that Kevin Reeves could have done a bang-up job, if he could have done the song in stereo. Even if it was done in two-track, I'd have been happy, (and wide enough to tell there is separation, please!). I personally prefer wide left and right separation, most of the time, but on rare occasions, I don't mind the two tracks a little closer. But not like that Freddie King cd I bought not long ago. It was, for all practical purposes, mono, the tracks were so closely mastered. Maybe someone will pull them apart one of these days, so we can hear some separation. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: From: So CA. Time: 1999-12-08 05:41:03 Comments: Don't feel too bad, I too bought that "Modern Blues" label Freddie King cd cuz the cover blurb, as I recall promised his King instrumental hits for the first time in stereo, which they weren't ! The same label had a second, all-vocal Freddie/y King King collection, which I suppose is probably all mono too. A third, unrelated - King "Modern Blues" compilation from the late great flying-V - weilding Albert has his King material in substantially better sound than on King label CD issues. RELIC (I guess they are going , going....FAST, too !) had Albert King's earliest output recorded for tiny Chicago label in splendid-sounding (Little Walter-ized) Chicago blues collections. Yes, in '70s, no-longer "Little"
Stevie did issue numerous LPs with that irritating Moody Blues - style "cross - fading", including "Original
Musiquarium.." compilation....a radio programmer's nightmare !! This trend has marred numerous "box
sets", and does anyone else "hate it when that happens !!!" ...? Hopefully Stevie box (anyone out there
that didn;t "boycott" ?!?!) leaves tracks seperate. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-08 07:05:51 Comments: While I like tight edits and crossfading on individual albums, I don't think they really work on most boxed sets. Earth Wind & Fire's "Eternal Dance" box is the only place it really works because they have done it on virtually all of their albums. It's their style. Brian, as a radio guy, I can see why you don't like it. I think artists and/or producers sometimes did it to force people to listen to the whole side. Many albums were intended to be taken as one whole big piece of art while radio programmers were thinking market share and record execs were thinking of commerce. And there is the issue of LP versions/mixes verses single edits/mixes (which I like as well). Three examples of these issues are The Beatles' "White Album", "Sgt Pepper", and Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On". Berry Gordy fought Marvin for a single from WGO. beetlefan |
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Name: Dave
Breathe Time: 1999-12-08 07:09:54 Comments: In regard to query re: Stevie boxset. Broadly, segueing/crossfading follows the ORIGINAL albums: the early cuts all have 2 second gaps between, but from 1971, the trax from each ORIGINAL album collide with each other (not necessarily in the same order as originally!) - but not with trax from a different ORIGINAL album! e.g. Songs from "Innervisions" are separated by 2 secs from songs from "Talking book" or "FFF"... Trax from "Musiquarium" are separate (2 secs) & "I just called..." is too. Hope that helps... |
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Name: Dean From: Calgary Canada Time: 1999-12-08 11:36:10 Comments: Just to let everyone know of a new (I think) stereo find brought to my attention by Paul Stoddard. It's "The Witch Doctor" by David Seville from 1958. This song can be found in true 3 track stereo on a Canadian Compilation called "On my radio: Top hits of the 1950's " by EMI Music Canada 72435 20982-2-2-4. It sounds great in stereo. Too bad it takes 42 years for gems like this to surface but better late than never eh? In regards to Peter & Gordon's rumored "stereo" hit "Woman" it indeed exists. I'm not sure why there is so much confusion as to the existance of this song but in an effort to put this issue to rest and share a really great song in stereo with my fellow stereo collectors just E-mail me and I will send you a copy of this song on MP3 in it's entirety. In fact if anyone can't get a copy of the Witch Doctor either (since it is a Canadian release and may be hard to find in the States) I'll be more than happy to send you an MP3 of that song too! I just hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes by doing this but if I am please accept my apologies |
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Name: Paul Carr Time: 1999-12-08 16:40:47 Comments: I'm still looking for a Supremes singles collection with as much stereo as possible. The Ultimate Collection has all the singles, but they are all mono. Does anyone know about stereo on Supremes - 40 Motown Golden Greats(UK Motown/Polydor Import)? Also does anyone know anything about the Rolling Stones Strictly Stereo 64-69 (Arcade - German Import)? |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-08 18:05:16 Comments: I just bought the Tokens CD by Taragon (All Time Greatest Hits). The first song on this CD is "Tonight I Fell In Love". Darn. . . . . it's in mono. That surprising, since I have this song in true stereo on an early seventies LP called "The Tokens, Both Sides Now" on the Buddah label. Hmmmm, "both sides now" is an interesting coincidence for an LP title. Anyway, the back of the Taragon CD says: "Tracks 1 & 9 are mono from full track master tapes; tracks 10, 13-14 from 2 track stereo sources; tracks 2-8 are stereo from 3 track session master tapes; 11-12 are stereo from 8-track session master tapes" I'm not sure what "full track master tape" means exactly. In searching the archives, a message from December 97 said: . . ."And there is a stereo version of 'Tonight I Fell In Love' but it's just an add-on instrumental track to create the stereo effect." I don't hear any such add on effect on my copy and it sounds the same as the one on the Taragon CD. Anyway, you can hear a 37 sec sample mp3 for this song at: http://home.integrityonline.com/terry/tokens.htm |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-08 18:30:24 Comments: "Full track" means the tape was recorded on a dedicated MONO deck. It's best to play one of these mono master tapes on a complimentary mono machine. Stay away from Diana Ross and The Supremes "Ultimate Collection" not because it has mono, but because was very poorly mastered from bad tapes, just like the "Forever Diana" box. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-08 19:44:47 Comments: To TerryOregon: The Buddah issue of "Tonight I Fell in Love" has added instrumentation to make the song stereo. The Warwick single version, the original, was not recorded in stereo. For the Buddah LP, the Warwick mono master was copied to a multitrack tape, then more instruments were dubbed onto the recording to make it stereo. Reprise did the same with the Vogues' Co & Ce recordings, although "Five O'Clock World" has since been released by Varese from a two-track stereo master. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-08 21:07:40 Comments: I just spent some time listening to this again on headphones. This is indeed the slickest stereo trick I've ever heard. The only time in 30 years I've had to humble myself and admit I was fooled. I had to switch between right only and left only on my trusty Marantz amplifier to hear what's going on. What's particularly intersting is that the vocals also "appear" separated. But upon careful listening, I can now see that they also took the vocals, did some bandwidth filtering or delay and then put the modified vocals on the channel opposite the added instrumentation track. A real neat trick. Still, I like it much better than the mono version, illusion or not. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 1999-12-08 21:48:38 Comments: Re: Tonight I Fell In Love Upon another listening, Terry is right!! They took the mono 45, and split it into channels, then they eq'd the midrange to boost the lead vocal on the left, and to reduce the vocal on the right, then mixed in the additional percussion on the left as well. They did a pretty good job, actually....it sound like the strings are ONLY on the left, but of course they arent. This is no NEW vocal track. Very Clever, Hank and Mitch!! Mikey |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-09 02:59:26 Comments: CORRECTION: Below I stated that one should avoid the Diana Ross & The Supremes "Ultimate Collection". That should read, Diana Ross's "Ultimate Collection". You monophobes wouldn't care anyway. Cheers! |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 1999-12-09 05:14:35 Comments: Anyone know if "El Watusi" by Ray Baretto is available on Cd, and if so in Stereo? Thank Bob. |
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Name: Blind
Jim From: Outer Limits Time: 1999-12-09 11:23:59 Comments: El Watusi appears on Ace's Land of 1000 Dances (CDCHD 702). An excellent collection, all in all. |
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Name: ALAN
END From: PLAINVIEW, N.Y. Time: 1999-12-09 11:50:30 Comments: Bob, EL WATUSI in stereo also appeared on the "CARLITO'S WAY" soundtrack. |
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Name: Willie Time: 1999-12-10 00:44:49 Comments: Two questions please: 1) Anybody received the 4th quarter Both Sides Now Newsletter? and 2) Anyone heard the Japanese releases of the Association albums? Are they the same quality as the "From the Master Tapes" Series? Thanks. |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: Sunnyvale, CA. Time: 1999-12-10 03:22:47 Comments: Dear Mike, would you like reviews on the following, [I know you reviewed 4 before], but I'm not sure which ones. The series is from Time/Life called The Heart of Rock and Roll: I have the following years, 1956, 58, 59, 61, combos; 59-60, 60-61, 62-63. These discs are mostly upgraded from the Rock & Roll Era with an emphasis on softer rock, but usually better masters than originally used. Please E-mail back if you can use any of the above. I hate to meet like this, everyone on the chat board seems to get pissed about secrets on this board. I am glad the 99 archives were added to get me up to speed! |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 1999-12-10 04:48:37 Comments: Willie, no #53 Newsletter yet! I hope I don't embarrass myself by buying BAD CDs for friends and family this Christmas!!! M-i-k-e, Oooohhh M-i-k-e --- #53 out by end of Oct. ....cough, ...cough. Any udate you can give us? Oh, and while you're at it, how's the "Bible" coming? .... you know, the "King Callahan" version! Any specifics would be appreciated. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: From: So CA. Time: 1999-12-10 05:32:29 Comments: "Latin Soul Boogaloo" ( Various Artists) 1996 Delta/Laserlight 12913 is another, perhaps least expensive, way to get stereo"El Watusi" by Ray Barretto. Also included on this "budget" CD is the stereo "Bang, Bang" by Joe Cuba Sextet. Maybe someone out there will compile a "Far-out Foreign Forty-fives" with hard-to-find st reo versions of hits like the above two plus "Dominique", "Martian Hop", "Sailor", "Sukiyaki", "Volare", and others.....(O.K., O.K., so multitracks on these may be the ultimate "needles in a haystack", but it's fun to fantasize.....). |
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Name: Dave-o
Thompson Time: 1999-12-10 09:32:57 Comments: Anybody on this board know where to find Bob B Soxx's Christmas songs (at the least, "The Bells of St. Mary's")? My station just had a listener call in looking for it, and none of our databases cover Christmas various artist comps. Thanx in advance! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 1999-12-10 11:26:47 Comments: "Here Comes Santa Claus" and "The Bells Of St. Mary's" by Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans can be found on the Abkco CD "A Christmas Gift From Phil Spector", albeit in poorly mastered mono ("Digitally remastered from original master tapes by Phil Spector"). If you have access to a used record store, search out the vinyl copy on Passport/CBS called "Phil Spector's Christmas Album". It contains the same album as the Abkco release, except in fairly good stereo. There is also a "grey area" CD of the stereo album floating around (Mike reviewed it in BSN last year, I believe), but it was mastered from the same Passport LP and some songs fade in. If you're in a bind, though, the Abkco CD is fairly easy to find. |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 1999-12-10 11:33:39 Comments: So, I found that "On The Radio - The '50s" CD on EMI Canada in my local CANADIAN store, and low and behold, "Witch Doctor" IS true stereo and the original (not a remake). Lead vocal on the near left, music centre, backing "chipmunks" right. Incredible how nothing on the package states that this 1958 is first-time stereo! Way to go Dean for bringing it to the Board! |
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Name: Dave-o
Thompson Website: From: Harrisburg PA Time: 1999-12-10 13:46:18 Comments: Garrett - Thanx for such a zippy response (on a question that had me bangin' my forhead - I KNEW I shoulda known that one)! While we're semi-on-the-subject, what's your favorite database site for tracking down entries on Various Artists? - that is, until the new Oldies On CD comes out, of course! |
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Name: Roger
Round From: Vancouver , Canada Time: 1999-12-10 22:27:07 Comments: I watched Notting Hill last weekend with Julia Roberts & Hugh Grant with my headphones on of course ( too many rock concerts in the 70's ) and Gimme Some Lovin' by Spencer Davis was playing on the soundtrack and it sure sounded like it was in STEREO. It sounded different so I went to the local record store and listened to it but it was the same mono track that I always hear. Why would they put a different version in the movie and not the same one on the soundtrack? Beats Me. Just thought i'd share that in case anyone else noticed that. |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Jersey Time: 1999-12-10 23:42:59 Comments: I am just wondering about something. I have an original copy of A CHRISTMAS GIFT FOR YOU by Phil Spector et al on the original Philles label. I got this in the early to mid sixties and it has a yellow and red label. The sound is pure mono and very punchy! Very crisp, clear and "vibrant" sounding. I have heard versions of this record playing in the mall, at Sam Goody's, and was amazed at how dull and lifeless it sounded. They only play cd's at my Sam Goodys, so it wasn't a cassette. Question: Does anyone know how many original versions of this lp were manufactured. Mine was sent to a radio station as a "thank you" for supporting Philles records and contains a spoken message from Phil himself. Is this on the subsequent "reissues"? Would this be considered a "collector's item?" |
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Name: Marty
Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 1999-12-11 00:21:43 Comments: I noticed on www.amazon.com they are selling "The Little Drummer Boy" by the Harry Simeon Chorale. One of the reviewers says this is the original 1959 "Sing We Now Of Christmas" album. My question is - is Little Drummer Boy in rechanneled stereo on this cd or is it in true stereo. If it's true stereo, I'll buy this cd in a second. Thanks. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-11 08:24:21 Comments: I'll try to clear up a couple of questions at once here: Any issues of the 1957 version of "The Little Drummer Boy" would be in electronic stereo, as it was on stereo pressings of SING WE NOW OF CHRISTMAS. The reason that track's mono is that it was recorded and issued by 20th Century-Fox on a single in '57. The LP was cut and issued the following year, based on the success of the single during the previous holiday season. Alas, no stereo tape of the hit version has ever materialized, and when Polygram absorbed MGM, Mercury, 20th Century-Fox, etc., any multis were discarded. The stereo recording that commonly appears on CD is the 1962 Kapp remake. It appears the original version is not available to license for use on compilation CDs. Stereo issues of "A Christmas Gift for You" appeared on vinyl as "Phil Spector's Christmas Album," first on the Warner/Spector label, then on a CBS subsidiary called Pavillion, not Passport (that was an indie distributed by JEM). |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 1999-12-11 10:47:41 Comments: The mono version of "Phil Spector's Christmas Album" was also released in 1972 on Apple Records. I have heard this LP once, and the mono sound is much better than the current CD, so I would assume that both this LP and the original Philles version (either blue or yellow label) have the same mix. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-11 15:43:42 Comments: Here's some great news for country fans, you can now order CD's, books, cassettes and videos from Ernest Tubb Record Shop online at http://etrecordshop.com/Merchant/merchant.mv? You can also see the main page at http://www.etrs.net |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 1999-12-11 15:52:18 Comments: I dug out my Passport/CBS vinyl press of Uncle Phil's Xmas album, and it's true stereo. I found I liked it better when I pushed the mono button in - the Wall of Sound roars when it's mono, especially the bass. When you listen in stereo, it's not the same experience. Balance wise the stereo is decent, but I don't care how much I prefer stereo most of the time - Spector got the Wall effect best when the mix ended up as mono. I'd love an original mono press of the Xmas album - all tube cutting chain, fresh tape, and mastered with Phil right there every step of the way. By the way, the Xmas message from Phil wasn't just on the original LP; it shows up on all the reissues... |
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Name: Mike
Nickel From: Cincinnati, Ohio Time: 1999-12-11 17:14:07 Comments: Hi, oops - I goofed on the label of that Spector Xmas album, too. It's not Passport, it's Pavillion... As for the CD reissues, the Rhino and ABKCO (two of our favorites these days) discs both sound muddy to me, like the hiss was filtered with a heavy hand. If the hiss sounds like eggs frying, a little removal is ok, but when it's just lightly present that scalpel of noise reduction starts to snag the high frequencies that breathe life into the track. I've been slowly upgrading my components (hot-rodded Dynaco amp, Adcom preamp, Dynaudio speakers, Grado phones and cartridge) and the things that make a track come alive (and are really noticeable now) are lurking in the midrange and highs where the ear seems most sensitive. Really skillful denoisers are a rare breed, so I guess it's one of those personal quibbles - when the music starts losing that magical, alive quality, it's time to back off the No-Noise/Sonic Solutions/CEDAR denoising and try again... |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-13 02:03:18 Comments: According to Reel.com, the movie "Cooley High" will be released on DVD on January 18th. Do we dare to hope that "Fingertips" will be in stereo, (even in part), on the soundtrack? I won't be holding my breath, but it might be something to look out for, since the original vinyl version of the soundtrack did, (we're told), contain most of part 2 in stereo. |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-13 13:52:13 Comments: I'm looking for Bertha Tilman "Oh my angel", any one have a clue where i might find it? Thanks. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-13 14:58:05 Comments: Ken, Bertha Tillman's "Oh, My Angel" is available in original mono on Mr. Maestro 1006, Moments to Remember - 30 Original Golden Oldies. This disc can be obtained from Disc Collector at http://www.discol.com for a reasonable price. |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 1999-12-13 16:15:14 Comments: yes, the Cooley High soundtrack LP does have a true stereo mix of "Fingertips" (I have it to confirm). It starts at the beginning of Pt. 1 and ends about 2/3 into Pt. 2, i.e., when the song kinda really ends and before Stevie comes back to take a bow and he continues the song. This is why I'm so PO'd at the box being mono. [ -- If I remember correctly, the version on Cooley High is not the same recording as the single. It sounded to me like it was recorded at a different show about the same time, which of course explains why the spontaneous "what key, what key?" encore part is not there at the end. -- MC ] |
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Name: Mark
Mathews From: LI, N.Y. Time: 1999-12-13 18:03:02 Comments: Hello All! Hmmm, sorry Mike, the stereo version of "Fingertips" from the Cooley High soundtrack is indeed the same recording that was used for single (part 2), except for missing ending. I did a quick sync of the 2 and they phase perfectly. I was told by an industry "insider" that the end was probably not used on the stereo version because just as Stevie was finishing they started breaking down the mics on the stage, and were put back quickly for his "encore" return, making the last segment sound different in stereo. I cannot confirm this. The stereo version also lacks a lot of reverb and compression they used on the mono. Of course, I myself would just add reverb and compression to the stereo version and use the encore part anyway...but that's just me. Happy stereo all! -MM |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 1999-12-13 18:33:52 Comments: Re: Bertha Tillman. What a great, simple, elegant, heartfelt song! A one time magical moment if there ever was one. As an alternative to the Mr. Maestro cd, it is on one of the Lowrider Oldies series on Thump out of Los Angeles...a series of great soul oldies geared toward the Latino community. Oh My Angel is one of the top one hit wonders of all time. By and large, an overlooked and underated gem. |
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Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 1999-12-13 19:32:42 Comments: thanks, Mark for coming to my rescue. "Fingertips" on Cooley High is indeed the same recording as the hit, only it doesn't run til the end of the hit....Mike C.? [ -- Okay, I misspoke. I finally got around to listening again, and they are the same take, but both the ending and some of the beginning of part 1 are chopped off. -- MC] |
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Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 1999-12-13 19:59:13 Comments: To Ken Garland: "Oh My Angel" by Bertha Tillman is also available on "The Birth of Soul" on Kent (an Ace label in the UK but available in the US). That CD also has "How Can I Forget" and it is the only place I have ever seen that song. FYI; Nobody responded about my question on the Association individual lps on cd from Japan so I obtained two of the them this weekend, Insight Out and Birthday, and they sound very good. Definately worth having. Mike, where is issue # 53? I'm getting antsy. |
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Name: Willie From: SF Time: 1999-12-13 20:01:32 Comments: To: Jay Connors; Regarding "Oh My Angel", I couldn't agree with you more. Great Song. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-14 09:33:08 Comments: I guess I'll have to file Bertha Tillman's "Oh, My Angel" away for future reference on an ERIC "Hard-to-Find 45s on CD" compilation! It's such a great song! |
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Name: Marty
Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 1999-12-14 10:49:09 Comments: Tom, thanks again for the information on Little Drummer Boy. This got me to thinking and maybe our readers can help - what other "December/Christmas/Holiday" hits/recordings were released as singles in 1957 or so, and then added to albums as a mono or rechanneled track? Also, can someone tell me which "Christmas" releases that made the charts prior to 1960 were in stereo. Three I can think of, possibly are Jingle Bell Rock, Rocking Around The Christmas Tree and Catch A Falling Star (not really Christmas, but played a lot in December some places). I'm sure there were plenty of Christmas releases in mono after 1960. Some were collector items such as the Beatles Christmas records, but some chart records (Little Saint Nick?) were recorded in stereo. --- While on the topic of Christmas, I've always wondered why the song Christmas Time Is Here (Vince Guaraldi) is stereo on the original albums with voice/instrument separation, but mono or rechanneled on Greatest Hits (cassette, I haven't checked CD version). Was it because some people do not like the instruments/voice setup? A lot of equipment comes with a mono button, so a version like this could be changed by the listener. --- White Christmas, by Bing Crosby, was recorded in 1942(?) I think - way early for stereo, but I've heard interesting stories about multiple microphones back then. Any chance that classic has a stereo version? Guess we can all hope. Seasons greetings to all. |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 1999-12-14 13:42:23 Comments: Can anyone recommend a CD copier that's easier to use than a PC version. Are they any quicker. A PC version seems to take forever to get it right. I have the HP version which also records CD RW. There are 4 ways to record, very confusing. Are the non PC version copier's less complicated. Bob Olivia |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: Sunnyvale Time: 1999-12-14 13:43:03 Comments: OK, Where do I find Jingle Bell Rock in stereo, never heard it before. I have lots of comps. with no stereo, including two by MCA, of course that could be the answer right there. Holiday greetings!!! |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-14 13:48:19 Comments: Can someone tell me what currently available CD contains "California Girls" by the Beach Boys in stereo? In searching the archives, someone mentioned (8/8/98) that it appeared in clean stereo on an "Endless Summer" CD released in August 98. Amazon.com only shows one listing for Endless Summer (Gold CD) and California Girls is listed as mono on the track listing. That song is in mono on my old Endless Summer CD (Capital) that I bought in the late eighties. |
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Name: Jeff Time: 1999-12-14 15:23:06 Comments: For Terryoregon...the CD you want is "The Beach Boys Endless Harmony Soundtrack" (Capitol 72434-96391-2-6). I haven't seen the stereo mix of "California Girls" on any other B.B. CD. |
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Name: terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-14 16:00:58 Comments: Thanks Jeff, I just ordered it. |
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Name: Bradley
Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-14 16:11:04 Comments: I looked at Mike's reply in the archives and he said that the stereo version can be found on some promo and radio-only compilations. |
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Name: Doug
Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 1999-12-15 11:15:47 Comments: CALIFORNIA GIRLS is stereo on my copy of Endless Summer by the BEACH BOYS (Capitol CDP 7 46467). The center ring is inscribed with U2E-13. Printed on the CD and tray inlay card is "Copyright 1974" (!). I think I purchased it in about 1990. Happy holidays! |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-15 12:02:35 Comments: My copy of Endless Summer (same catalog number, but with U1E23 on the center ring) is mostly stereo, but "California Girls" is reprocessed. |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 1999-12-15 12:26:29 Comments: Tom, Did I detect a note of thinly veiled sarcasm in your latest post re: Bertha Tillman? If one or two of us think the song is really special, maybe it deserves a second listen for real. It is a very unique arrangement...sounds like nothing else, before or after. Sound quality is excellent studio for the time. I have never heard it in stereo. Brent released some good sounding things in its time. If masters are available of some Brent or Shad or Time recordings, I am sure there would be some interest from some people who remember that New York kind of sound. By the way, the two latest cds as reviewed in ICE are on my list of items to order, on ERIC. Also do you know anything about The Whiffenpoof Song by Bob Crewe on Warwick? To me, that is a forgotten recording that deserves unearthing. Great big band arrangement, good vocals. It was Bob Crewe, wasnn't it? Before the Seasons. Or do I have it wrong, and its someone else? |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-12-15 14:42:55 Comments: Re: California Girls - a true stereo mix of the song didn't even exist until the "Endless Harmony" CD came out in 1998 (well, some people did put together the stereo vocal and backing tracks, but there wasn't an official mix). Still waiting for a stereo mix of Good Vibrations, though! |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-15 20:37:02 Comments: No sarcasm at all, Jay. ERIC released "Oh My Angel" on a 45, backed with "Who's That Knockin'" by The Genies (ERIC 148). If I sounded at all off-the-wall, it's because ERIC had a license on it for the single, yet it hasn't come up as a possibility for a "Hard-to-Find" CD package. I guess I found some humor in the oversight! Now, there could be a reason it wasn't considered for a CD package: we haven't discussed 60s R&B for CD reissues, only pop. The other reason could be that the 45 didn't sell well, so it's been dismissed as a poor choice for a CD. I'll talk with Bill Buster about it, since he handles the CD content, but to allay your fears, I really do like the song. |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 1999-12-16 02:44:23 Comments: Thanks Tom, for the explanation. If I remember correctly ERIC has put out a remarkable catalogue of material including Paul Anka. Do the liscensing agreements still hold or do they run out after a certain length of time? I think a cd of New York label doo wop or "soul" semi hits or rarities from say the Laurie, Brent, Time, Bell, Mala, and other labels not already mined by WestEnd or Sequel, could prove successful, especially if stereo were available. The Roulette, Gone, Goldisc, End and other Goldner affiliated labels have pretty much been exploited, but there is a host of relatively unknown material from a number of small independents that would be of serious interest. I don't know about l2,000 minimums, but a lot of the music would be on long defunct labels, and hopefully the liscensing holders would be pleased to have their material reissued, regardless of money or numbers of copies projected. I guess this might turn into a monumental undertaking for small rewards monetarily, but from a collectors standpoint, a noble one. |
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Name: Ralph
Curcio Website: From: N.J. Time: 1999-12-16 09:32:24 Comments: Season's greetings, music lovers! For Jay and anyone else interested in obscure New York doo wop, Ace has recently issued "Wop Ding A Ling," a compilation of vocal groups from the Time, Brent and Shad labels. Haven't heard it yet but it looks interesting. Check out www.acerecords.co.uk under November releases for more details. The Web site says there will be another volume sometime next year covering the more familiar hit material from Time/Brent/Shad. Could we possibly hope for a stereo version of "Oh My Angel"? |
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Name: Jay
Connors Time: 1999-12-16 10:23:41 Comments: Recently acquired a King cd of Little Willie John with two of my favorites from the sixties era which have seen relatively little light of day otherwise. Sleep and Heartbreak. Both I believe charted in the top 100. The quality of sound is reasonable, but not great. Of noticable diminishment is the kicking bass that started Heartbreak along with the organ. This cut seems much less than it was on 45, as does Sleep which has a slightly synthetic sound to it despite the obviously original production and vocals. Does any one have recordings of Little Willie John or Hank Ballard and the Midnighters that capture the original power and sound? What is the story with King? Are there any reissues on this label which sound good? Do they liscense material to other labels easily? Their original 45s were very strong sounding with lots of energy and sounded great on the radio. I have been disappointed with any cd transfers I have heard. Also on the cd is Talk to Me. Great material in need of great sound. King seems to be part of Hollywood now which issues some original oldies and many poor re-recordings (all on the same discs!) You never know which is which until you hear them! |
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Name: David R.
Modny Time: 1999-12-16 11:16:18 Comments: Re: Stereo "Good Vibrations" - We may have to wait QUITE a long time to see that one in stereo Luke, as the vocal multi-tracks are still missing. The only thing some people have attempted is syncing the official full track mono version with the Linnett created/edited stereo backing track from the box set (it's not the ACTUAL backing track) with marginal results (i.e. phases problems). Also, to re-emphasize a point Luke made; "California Girl" was only mixed to true stereo for the first time in 1997 for the "Endless Harmony" set - any issue before is either the original mono or duophonic mix. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-16 12:24:43 Comments: In reply to Jay Connors. King Records is presently part of the Gusto Music Group which includes King, Starday, Musicor, Scepter and Wand. Hollywood has been an often used budget line moniker which combined original recordings with re-records. (Gusto owns quite a large library of re-records, similar to those which K-Tel releases on their Dominion label.) King generally does not license individual tracks from the Starday or King labels for various artist packages. On the "sound" issue, in recent years, Gusto has generally gone back to the best quality master tapes in their vault. I can only presume on the Little Willie John situation that either they couldn't find the original source masters or perhaps a good amount of eq was added to the original '45 master which was not on the original session tape. If the CD was processed from the original non-eq'd session tape, this could account for somewhat less punch in the sound. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-16 15:14:17 Comments: I would like to clarify a few points regarding a recent question and a recent reply by someone regarding "The Little Drummer Boy" by the Harry Simeone Chorale. All that exists in the Universal east coast tape vault is a mono LP production master. The original version on 20th Century Fox has never been issued on CD since there is apparently no paper trail of ownership for this recording. 20th Century Fox was sold to PolyGram and then PolyGram was sold to Universal. It could wind up being licensed in the future but it would take a certain amount of persistence by a project compiler to track down exactly who owns rights to license this track. It may, in fact, be Universal. Officially they do not say they DON'T own it; they just can't say with certainty that they DO own it. Since there is a very good quality re-record (in stereo) on Kapp, most compilers have decided that since the newer recording is definitely better sonically and it is also in stereo, that buyers would probably be just as happy getting this version. If I ever do a Christmas package in the future, I will do my best to license the original version...if for no other reason than it SHOULD appear on CD, albeit in mono. I also believe that this track was originally recorded in 1958, not 1957 as was indicated in a recent post. The song did not show up on the Billboard chart until Christmas of '58. As was often the case during that time frame, record producers wound up beginning a project in mono and then finishing it in stereo. When the sudden popularity of the single demanded an album, I don't think 20th Century Fox thought it worth the money to go in to re-record this song in stereo. Remember, stereo was not a major factor yet. One last point here. The major record companies had the money to invest in the new, and very expensive, three-track machines before the smaller and less-well-funded studios. There are certain songs which were recorded at hole-in-the-wall studios or even at radio station studios as late as 1960 which were done in mono. The fact that these songs have never appeared in stereo on CD does not necessarily mean that multi-track or stereo mixes were lost, or that record companies are too lazy to search for stereo.....these may have only been done in mono either because of budgetary considerations or because the creative decision makers did not foresee the future of stereo and were content to record in conventional "mono." CD compilers do owe it to the buying public to carefully research song titles from this era, because if there is a possibility that a good stereo master (or a multi-track) does exist, it should at least be evaluated for use on a project. Then it turns into a budget question of whether it is economically feasable to book time to remix a three-track tape (note: I am not talking about mickey-mouse sync-ups which often appear as being "stereo"!!) |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-16 17:34:17 Comments: Gusto has licensed many of George Jones's early hits to Sony/Legacy for use on their "Essential George Jones" boxed set, they have licensed to Rhino for compilations on B.J. Thomas, Gene Pitney and other artists. Varese has also issed a Gene Pitney compilation. These are some examples. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-16 18:01:08 Comments: Bradley, if you read my reply carefully, I indicated that Gusto is reluctant to lease specifically King or Starday masters. They have no problem licensing Musicor, Scepter or Wand material and in your reference above, it seems to be material from these label artists who have been licensed to other labels. Gusto will license King and Starday material (they've done this with Rhino), but then only if it is for an entire artist package (i.e. Billy Ward & The Dominoes/King). |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-16 18:19:14 Comments: I must offer a rebuttal to the claim that the original 20th Century-Fox recording of "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale has not been issued on CD. The stereo LP master for the 20th Century-Fox LP, Sing We Now of Christmas was released on CD by PolyGram on Casablanca 822 744-2, with the title The Little Drummer Boy. The CD boasts a copyright date of 1978 by PolyGram Records, Inc., and claims that it was also available on LP and cassette. The title track is slightly rechannelled, only because one channel is noticeably louder than the other, otherwise it's the mono master. An A-B comparison with an original 1958 pressing of the 20th Century-Fox single (#121) clearly indicates that this compact disc contains the "hit" version. An A-B comparison with the 20th Century-Fox stereo LP (TCF 110-2S), Sing We Now of Christmas indicates that the CD was sourced from an LP master. I apologize for incorrectly identifying the original recording date of the hit single as 1957 in a prior post. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-16 18:36:43 Comments: To my knowledge the Simeone CD on Casablanca is no longer available. Too bad. My recent post was incorrect, although I meant to mention that this was a mono track on a stereo production master. I now recall listening to this tape several years ago at the Edison Studios and hoping that we did actually find a stereo master of this song, only to find that "Drummer Boy" was in mono. Hopefully the time for this recording will come around again. In stereo, would they be "oxen" and "lambs"? " |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-16 19:22:48 Comments: If anyone needs the CD with the original version of "The Little Drummer Boy," copy this URL into your web browser and order it: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=905386845/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID= SIMEONE*HARRY+CHORALE/itemid=454441 It's only $9.49, plus shipping and handling! |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-16 20:01:24 Comments: I guess I don't get out enough! It is nice to see the mono version of "Little Drummer Boy" is available on CD. Thanks Tom for the research. |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 1999-12-16 22:27:37 Comments: Feeling holidazed yet? Well, my mood has already been soured by a few recent CDs that show greed, not quality, is alive and well. I'm not sure whether to blame Demon/Edsel's takeover of the Britain's Westside label for its abominable CD reissue of the Jimmy Clanton album "Venus in Blue Jeans," but unlike the admirable upgrading of his Ace catalog on previous CDs, "Venus" is an ALL-MONO disaster that was transfered from a bad LP. Ticks, pops, tracking errors, you name it. Even with a few collector's items that are not found anywhere else, this type of release has shaken my confidence in their future Ace reissues. You've been forewarned. As bad, and just as disappointing, is the British Hallmark label's budget CD "Jimmy Jones: The Original Handy Man." Usually Hallmark product is a good value, but all 15 tracks -- including the readily available "Handy Man" and "Good Timin'" -- are taken from disc dubs. Granted, I expected some "cleaned-up" product, when I saw that the track list included his more obscure Cub, Bell and Parkway recordings. But what could have been a very appealing retrospective turned out to be another bottom-of-the-barrel disappointment. On a brighter note, the latest Mr. Maestro CD, "Mr. Dee Jay: 30 Original Golden Oldies," finds STEREO CD DEBUTS of "Elevator Operator" by the Rays, "Stardust" by the Dominoes, "Happy-Go-Lucky Me" by Paul Evans and "Torture" by Kris Jensen. Yet considering Mr. Maestro's preference for seeking out stereo, whenever possible, "El Watusi" by Ray Baretto is MONO here. And blah...blah...blah... And that's my story. Too bad every CD can't be as surprisingly good as "Strictly Stereo 1964-1969" by the Rolling Stones. Did you put that one on your wish list? It's GREAT! |
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Name: Terryoregon From: Beaverton, Oregon Time: 1999-12-17 01:22:04 Comments: There is a very clean wide stereo version of Good Timin' on "21 Hard To Find 45's On CD (Eric label). It is the best I've ever heard for that song. Handy Man also appears on that CD ( but in mono). The back of the CD states "All tracks AAD digitally transferred from original analog master tapes by Fred Meyer at Polygram Studios. Also included on that CD is "Born To late" (1958) in flawless wide stereo. There is also is a very clean stereo version of "I Ran All The Way Home" by the Impalas. Go here for a 28 sec mp3 sample of Good Timin': http://home.integrityonline.com/terry/jones.htm |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Metro New York Time: 1999-12-17 04:48:26 Comments: I don't know if Mike is going to get mad at me, but I thought maybe some of you would like to see my "End of Year" homemade compilation made from compact discs acquired during the last 12 months. Since most of these would be considered "collectors" tracks, and they were good enough for me to dub onto a cd for my own personal listening, maybe he'll let it pass. Best of 1999 tracks for me, in the order assembled on cd.....Bobby Rydell--Goodtime Baby, Beach Boys, Wendy,--Elvis, My Wish Came True--Royaltones, Flamingo Express--Martha and Vandellas, Come and Get These Memories--Gene Pitney, I'm Gonna Be Strong--Skyliners, Pennies from Heaven--Freddy Cannon, Buzz, Buzz A Diddle It--Cookies, Don't Say Nothin' Bad--Little Richard, Lucille--Byrds, So You Wanna Be a Rock n Roll Star--Everly Brothers, So Sad--Little Willie John,Fever--Orlons,Don't Hang Up--Neil Diamond, Soliatary Man,--Pet Clark, I Know a Place--Ray Charles, You Don't Know Me--Crystals, He's a Rebel--Bob Lind, Remember the Rain--New Coloney Six, I Will Always Think About You--Brenda and the Tabulations, When You're Gone--Versatiles, Lundee Dundee--Frankie Avalon, Gingerbread--Videls, Now that Summer is Here--Lou Stein, Got a Match--Connie Francis, Together--Mark Dinning, Top 40 News, Weather and Sports--Maxamillion, Greyhound--Tracey Dey, Teenage Cleopatra. The purpose of posting this list is to express amazement that all of these are available on cd in 1999. Many obscure titles, many excellent recordings, much musical enjoyment all available because of the internet and a little used cd shopping savvy. I am waiting for Mike's Book to come out so I can renew my search efforts for titles such as these that get his stamp of approval. There are still so many single tracks from the past that I need to fill in the holes in my collection: Among them, "Unhip Hits" from Eric as reviewed in the latest Ice. I hope that you enjoy your own personal cd compilations as much as I do mine. Cheers to all for the holidays! |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: Time: 1999-12-17 05:53:15 Comments: Interesting list "Jay". All of these aren't stereo, are they ?!?! Read somewhere that "Flamingo Expess" is now on a CD in stereo. Also, "Stardust", referred to below on "Mr. Mastered from Musty - Dusty Moldy 45s" label compilation is also (first ?) on a Marty W - mastered CCM collection in stereo
Had been waiting for someone to pick up on a couple of errors here lately, and y'all got all over that
"Drummer Boy" deal, it appears…so, well, here we go anyway: "A Christmas Gift for You" ("Phil Spector's Christmas Album") did come out on Passport ("marketed by jem") in 1984, (# PB 3604). It's nice stereo, too (how else are you going to be able to hear the footsteps walking from L to R, then R to L on the intro to side 2 ?!). Prior LP reissues include Impression PSLP 2 (U.K., 1983, stereo), Pavillion (1981), Warner Brothers/Spector 9103 (1975, stereo ?), Apple 3400 (1972, mono - better than CD). Original Philles LP issue runs consistently a bit faster throughout when compared to Abkco CD. As an example, "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town" timings: CD - 3:24, Stereo reissue LPs - 3:18 or 3:19…Philles mono LP (perhaps ala "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' " 45) lists it as "2:29". Philles mono LP also seems, to these ears, to have better, clearer, less "boxy" sound on vocals, when compared to Abkco CD which has less "presence", & an almost "phasy" sound on vocal portions. Passport stereo LP cover pic of "Santa Phil" (same shot used in Abkco CD's "fold-out"/"booklet"), logically, has the two little red "Back to mono" buttons blotted out. "Jingle Bell Rock" certainly has never been stereo. If this was cut at "Bradley's Barn", they had no stereo recording capabilities until maybe late 1958….. Since someone brought up King things, how about Charles Brown's original stereo King hit "Please Come Home For Christmas", and for that matter his whole 1961 King "Sings Christmas Songs" LP ? Another case of "the re-recording will do" on CD reissues. Several overseas labels (Ace, Charly, Westside - hope the latter ain't going "downhill", as post below seems to indicate…!) have dipped into the King/Federal/DeLuxe vaults, but no trace of hard-to-find stereo stuff like Little Willie John's "Sleep" & Hank Ballard & the Midnighters stuff. Agree that most Midnighters CD transfers suffer poor sound quality….that "boxy"/"phase-y"/"under - water" percussion sound. Every once in a while King stereo will "sneak out" in U.S…. in unexpected places though, like on compilations, usually, … like the stereo "Lay it on the Line" by The Dominoes. Seems like Gusto or Highland (or whatever they're calling themselves nowadays) is one of those labels that will license product for U.S. issue if they can do the mastering (= poop), manufacturing, etc. Closing on another holiday note, notorious reissue "grinch" Warner Brothers has dozens of yule goodies they're holding back, that would be great to have on CD in stereo. Ike & Tina Turner & the Ikettes' "Merry Christmas Baby" (W.B., 1964) made it onto one of those Rhino "Cool Yule"compilations, but is it stereo ? "Jin - gle A-l - l the W - a - y a - y a - y !!! " |
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Name: Bill Knoble From: Dallas Time: 1999-12-17 08:04:55 Comments: --- LABEL NAMES & NUMBERS --- Could I remind those, who are not already doing
so, to please include the "Label Name & Number" when referring to a specific album (unless, perhaps,
this info. was given in the last 5 or so posts). Yeah, I know, it takes a few seconds to find the info. and a
few more to type it, but, since the Label Name/Number is the "fingerprint" of a CD, it sure cuts down on a
lot of misguided searching, or worse, buying the wrong one. Look at it this way; what if Mike didn't include this info. in his publications? A little frustrating, eh, and certainly more work for all. Thanks:) |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-17 08:25:00 Comments: Boppin' Brian, since the Sony George Jones boxed set was released in 1994 (a more recent release), I can verify that they are now known as Highland Music. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-17 12:46:44 Comments: BSN readers will be interested to know that I have a CD version of "The Little Drummer Boy" by The Harry Simeone Chorale in TRUE stereo where at the end, on the fade out, you hear Clarence Paul saying "what key, what key?" OK - enough levity. In answer to a few recent posts regarding Gusto/Highland. As I represent these people for music licensing, let me clear up a few points. Bradley, they do go by some different names... Gusto Music Licensing, Highland Music are the two most prominent. Years ago they acquired the King label from Sid Nathan. In later years they bought Scepter and Wand and also Musicor. They do treat King somewhat more protectively than the others regarding outside licensing and generally will not license individual King tracks for v/a compilations. They will graciously supply DAT copies you request for projects and have no problem letting others do the mastering on material they control; (as Bill Inglot and I have both done - he for Rhino and Varese, me for some Varese titles). I think there is an inherent problem with labels which have been sold and where the new owners may just not be aware of the undocumented facts regarding the tapes. For instance, on a Little Willie John song there could be a "single" version, "edited" single, "radio" mastered single, LP mix, stereo LP mix, re-channeled version, in other words MANY versions of the original song. What may exist 40 years later are only some of these and while the tapes may physically be available, they may not be cataloged very well. As for the comment on "Star Dust" by Billy Ward. You'll all be happy to know that Varese will be releasing a Billy Ward & The Dominoes of their Liberty masters in the first quarter of 2000. I have co-compiled this set with Cary and mastered the CD with all original tapes personally supplied by Billy Ward. These are either the binaural masters, or in a few cases, mono masters. Suffice it to say, I was the first to use "Star Dust" from a binaural source on the Collectors' Choice "Choice Voices" package and this is in a totally wide version. On the Liberty package I have panned the binaural tracks but only slightly. Fans of "wide" will not be disappointed. On this site, there are no fans of "narrow"!! Incidentally, through all the intensive research we till never came up with "Deep Purple" except in mono, although this version sounds somewhat cleaner than those on Time/Life or Eric. It did not require any processing, hence no artifacts. If you've read this far, here's your reward! You can look forward to the definitive Chordettes 25 track CD coming in February also from Varese. This will contain all their hits with some surprises. More on that later. There will also be a completely revisited Isley Bros. set with a couple of tracks we licensed from another label - hint: think cuddly animal. Look to Cary Mansfield at Varese to come up with some fresh and exciting projects for 2000. Happy holidays to all. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-17 13:03:13 Comments: To Marty Wesker: you sure you said that right? "The Little Drummer Boy" also has the musician saying, "What key? What key????" :-) To Jay Conners: yes, I enjoy my homemade comps so much I listen to them more than the commercial ones! Happy Holidays! |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 1999-12-17 15:41:35 Comments: Marty, re: - wide vs. narrow. *In general* I prefer wide mixes - the wider the better. However, there are exceptions. As far as The Beatles go - I like the wide mixes of the early stuff (both the two track material and the later 4 track) - for the most part there is some bleed from the rhythm track (left channel) to the right channel, which creates a nice blend. However, some of the early Stones mixes (most notably Satisfaction and Mother's Little Helper) loose some of their punch in stereo. The rhythm track is mixed hard left in both cases, and the vocals and overdubs are too loud. I've heard remixes of both of these, which have the rhythm track moved a bit more to the center and louder - the "feel" on both is much better. There may be ways to increase the punch factor without doing that, but in that case it worked. Another example would be some of The Who material produced by Shel Talmy that has shown up in stereo - lead guitar hard left, vocals center, rhythm track hard right. I think even if the rhythm track was pushed ever so slightly to the left (possibly with some echo/reverb in the left channel) the mixes would sound a lot better. As it is they don't feel very cohesive... |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-12-18 11:27:32 Comments: Marty, I'm curious. Just listening to the Jane Morgan Collection on Varese (thanks, Cary) and wondering about "Fascination" (1957). Do you know where this was originally recorded? Since it's established that Roger Williams' "Autumn Leaves" in stereo is a re-recording, this must be the label's earliest hit in true stereo. Makes me wonder about the rest of Dave Kapp's catalog. Also, what happened to "With Open Arms"? |
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Name: Uncle
Al From: Long Isalnd NY Time: 1999-12-18 11:41:57 Comments: Gotta agree with Luke on those Stones wide stereo mixes, add "Get Off of My Cloud" to that list. Why do compilation discs always give me the single edits of songs like "Nights in White Satin", "Sunshine Superman" and "Whiter Shade of Pale" and always the album versions of "Spinning Wheel" and "Magic Carpet Ride"? I never seem to get the version I really want. |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: Sunnyvale Time: 1999-12-18 11:43:09 Comments: To Boppin' Brian: Stereo Flamingo Express avail: AL-CD6310121 Alvorado disc Spain, from Discol. and also at Rock Classics at a clearance price! Fl XP not to die for stereo, very close, maybe 2-track disc dub, or maybe it is "wide" mono. The disc is called "The Royaltones VS the Ramrods. also includes Poor Boy in TS Ghost Riders, in something narrow also includes TS of Jingle Bell Rock by B. H. Happy Holidays Massie get the Multi's from the Goldner collection, before Rhino does. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-18 12:22:32 Comments: Uncle Al, you can get the LP version of "Nights In White Satin" on the Moody Blues "Days of Future Passed" album which has been reissued on CD and the 45 version of "Spinning Wheel" on the Legacy remaster of Blood Sweat & Tears's "Greatest Hits" album. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-18 13:27:55 Comments: Uncle Al, you can also get the 45 version of "Magic Carpet Ride" on the "On The Radio" CD compilation on Varese Vinatge. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-18 14:56:03 Comments: In reply to Curt Lundgren ... "With Open Arms" by Jane Morgan was going to appear along with the correct single version of "Two Different Worlds" on "The Jane Morgan Collection - Volume 2". Need I tell you that the first volume on Varese did not go double platinum (I think it went "zinc") and the follow-up CD got shelved. (Or as they say in ICE Magazine - "temporarily postponed.") Fortunately, I used both of the above tracks on another Varese package called: "The 50's Remembered" (VSD-5783), so if you want these songs, this is where you will find them. "Fascination" could be one of the early stereo sessions recorded by Kapp. The date does seem a bit early, but it sure sounded like real stereo to my engineer and me. Kapp generally used Fine Recording Studios for their New York sessions. Since session documentation information cannot be found anywhere, it is only an educated guess that "Fascination" was recorded there. But if any New York independent studio would have had an early Ampex 3-track, it would have been them. Interestingly, when tape sourcing the Jane Morgan project, I did find a rehearsal version of "Autumn Leaves" by Roger Williams with a scratch vocal by Jane Morgan. Roger performed it very close to the final issued "hit" instrumental version though it wasn't quite as polished. Jane's vocal was very rough too. I guess Kapp decided not to do any more work with this vocal approach and instead concentrated their studio time on doing a really great Roger Williams instrumental instead. For a fast minute, I was tempted to use this rough performance on the Jane Morgan CD as an "unreleased track," but it was obviously not intended for commercial release and it really didn't showcase Jane's vocal talents very well either, so we shelved it. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-19 02:02:14 Comments: For those of you who were wondering about that Japanese release of "The Association's Greatest Hits", save your money. It's identical to the domestic version. Well, that's not true: you get an insert with Japanese lyrics and a different matrix number, but that's it. Quite a ripoff! No added songs, no improved sound quality, no nothing, except it costs about $30.00. For what it's worth, I love the stereo versions of the early Rolling Stones hits. There's room for the mono and stereo versions. That "Strickly Stereo" cd is not bad, but the track "Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby" is nowhere near as good as the other stereo version floating around. |
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Name: pierreux
frederik From: belgium Time: 1999-12-19 11:50:35 Comments: hi, could anybody give me any information about a LP box, released in 1970, and is called "the Motown Story" info. like; where i can get it, etc. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-19 13:28:24 Comments: To Pierreux Fredrik: I don't believe in exists on CD, but I have the original LP box. I've just never took the time to sit down and master it to CD-R. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-19 15:22:34 Comments: This was created by a long since defunct mail order company called SIMCO (or CIMCO) and they were based in Los Angeles. This was never issued on CD. I believe when this came out, it was before Motown made it a practice to ever license their songs to other labels or for various artist mail order packages. At that time they were still very possessive of their music. Afterwards they eased up quite a bit and you started seeing their hits appearing all over, but mainly on Rhino and also Time/Life packages, first on vinyl and cassettes and then on CD. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-19 19:41:12 Comments: Marty, I'm looking at the box right now. It is a Motown product with the Motown logo and Map label. There is absolutley no indication of it being anything otherwise. It may have been marketed by this company at the time, but I bought my copy at Tower Records on Sunset Blvd. in Los Angeles in 1982. Motown's corporate offices were just a few blocks down the street then. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-19 21:07:23 Comments: Also, the 5 LP box set uses what sounds like session tapes and instrumental tracks without vocals. It is highly doubtful that Motown would allow anyone access to those tapes! |
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Name: Fred Povey Website: Time: 1999-12-19 21:29:10 Comments: Marty, the CIMCO package you're thinking of is a special-products style 4-LP set from the mid-'70s called "The Greatest 64 Motown Original Hits." It's a good collection of Motown hits along the lines of the first "Hitsville U.S.A." CD box issued in the '90s. It was way overpressed and was widely available in record-store bargain bins. On the other hand, there have been two incarnations of "The Motown Story," both issued as regular Motown albums. The first was a 5-LP set issued in 1970, containing 58 hits each preceded by an interview snippet and narration by disc jockey Charlie van Dyke. This was to commemorate "The First Ten Years" of Motown. Then in 1983, Motown released another 5-LP set, "The Motown Story: The First Twenty-Five Years," with an updated track selection and new narration by Lionel Richie and Smokey Robinson. A version of this package was later issued on CD. |
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Name: Uncle
Al From: Long Island, NY Time: 1999-12-19 22:43:43 Comments: I also have the "Motown Story" 5 lp box set. It is catalog number MS 5-726 and is indeed released and ditributed by Motown. I bought the box years ago and shelved it immediately as it contained a constant commentary that stepped on the intros and endings of almost all the songs. |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 1999-12-20 09:12:00 Comments: Guess I'd better chime in on the "Motown Story". MY box contains SEVEN lps. The box copyright is 1970, the discs (Motown PR 121 A-N) 1983. This set is promotional, and I believe we aired it a couple of times as a weekend special. Narration is by Smokey & Lionel. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-20 14:03:43 Comments: Thinking of Christmas, I sure wish I could find the following hits on cd: the mono, single edit of the 1962 version of "Santa Claus Is Watching You" by Ray Stevens, Marion Worth's "Shake Me, I Rattle", and the Eagles' "Please Come Home For Christmas". And speaking of Christmas, everytime I hear the instrumental hit "Telstar", by the Tornadoes, I hear it as a Christmas song. Has that ever happened to others? I know that the song has nothing to do with Christmas, but because it was all over the radio during the 1962 holiday season, my subconscious mind thinks of Christmas, every time I hear it. Incidently, has anyone ever tried to slow down the stereo version of Ace Cannon's "Tuff", and see if it is the same take as the mono single? Since the stereo version is shorter and less bluesy, I have always wondered about that. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-20 14:59:29 Comments: John, in a weird way, I consider any pop/rock/soul song that was popular during Christmas time a Christmas song. You can find the Eagles "Please Come Home For Christmas"/"A Funky New Year" on an Elektra CD single in stores. I usually see it in Circuit City around this time of year. I've never bought or heard it. I should get it before I can't find it anymore. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 1999-12-20 20:47:33 Comments: Re: The Harry Simone Chorale: The stereo version of The Little Drummer Boy is available on the Excelsior Cd of the same name, EXL-2-5301. I assume its the 1962 re-record. Sound quality is very good, altho a little hissy. A good value at 5.99!!! Mikey |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 1999-12-20 22:04:08 Comments: Let's see if we can get an answer here. Neil Diamond recorded Solitary Man twice. Both on Bang, one is an alternate take, which surfaces on later Columbia greatest hits package. The other is the original 45 rpm hit single. I am told that the original hit 45 is not available on cd. Is this true? Supposidly, Neil preferred the alternate take and that is what was used for everything after the 45 was released. I seem to remember seeing a greatest hits on cd on the Bang label. Does anyone know if that cd has the original? It strikes me as very strange that the original 45 rpm version of Solitary Man would not be available anywhere on cd? What about imports or grey area material? Somebody must have the answers to these questions. What about VA Comps? Thank you for your help! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-20 22:54:19 Comments: In the new issue of ICE it says a Japanease label has an HDCD remaster of the Beatles "Please Please Me" and "With The Beatles" CD's in stereo. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-20 23:00:27 Comments: Oh yeah, Jay, the original MONO single version of "Solitary Man" is on his box set, "In My Lifetime" released on Columbia/Legacy. The version we've been hearing for so long on CD is the stereo mix. The 45 mono (here we go again) mixes sound very different from the common stereo. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-21 11:09:03 Comments: The mono version of "Solitary Man" can also be found on "Greatest Hits: 1966-1992" which was rated D by Mike as it features many re-recordings of his Uni/MCA hits. A guide to his mono/stereo versions of Bang recordings on LP's and CD's can be found at http://www.angelfire.com/mo/iris/neilbang.html |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-21 13:35:06 Comments: There are actually three versions of Neil Diamond's "Solitary Man": the original (mono) single version (which is on the CDs mentioned below); a stereo alternate take which appeared on several Bang LPs, including the Double Gold compilation; and a second stereo version, which is on the Classics The Early Years CD. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-21 14:47:42 Comments: Fred Povey seems to have cleared up this Motown Box Set business! There were obviously several different packages produced and licensed by Motown. Though I didn't immediately recall the "retail" set to which Curt Lundgren made reference, my familiarly was with that 4-CD mail-order package which came out during the four year period I worked for Jobete Music in the early 70's. Incidentally, In later years (1991 to be exact) Jobete (Motown's publishing division) issued a four CD promotional sampler called "Jobete Music Presents Million Performance Songs" which was serviced primarily to record producers and to music supervisors for film and tv. If you are lucky enough to have this set, it is a good mono collection of not only Motown label hits; it also includes some non-Motown hits which were published by Jobete, i.e. "My Arms Adored You" by Frankie Valli. Now, in my OPINION (intentionally set in "caps", since many BSN posters often do not acknowledge that they are merely offering "opinions" on a subject, not "facts")... the best "mono" representation of Motown hits is on the Cary Mansfield produced box set called "Hitsville, U.S.A." (Before someone sends a reply saying "Marty, you must be mistaken, Cary Mansfield runs Varese Vintage", he produced this box set BEFORE he became head of Varese Vintage!) These are the hit single versions and the mastering quality is excellent. But like me, If you have in later years really come to appreciate the the stereo mixes of the Motown hits (allowing that some are different performances, different edits, different fades and some of the stereo mixes reflect more inherent tape hiss from the 3-track masters), I think the best option is the various volumes of the Time/Life series"Classic Rock" where you'll find gems like "Baby, Baby Don't Cry", "My Baby Must Be A Magician" and "Indiana Wants Me". Very good mixes are also to be found on the Al Quaglieri produced series: "The Sound Of Young America", but this was only a partially realized project which was abandoned midstream with only several "years" seeing the light of day. I think there is now a '64, '66, '68, '69 and '70 and perhaps a couple more of the '70s years. The versions used on the Millennium Series are good sounding stereo (Miracles, Four Tops, Temptations, Supremes, Jackson 5, Mary Wells, Martha & The Vandellas and Marvin Gaye while Stevie Wonder's early stereo hits are well-represented on the new box set). The only major Motown artists not included in the Millennium series are The Marvelettes, Junior Walker & The All-Stars and Marvin Gaye/Tammi Terrell. Again, in my opinion, this is such great music that if you are a fan of these hits when they came out and you heard them on the radio, (some BSN posters were DJ's and played them on the radio) you must have them in your CD library in mono... on the other hand, many of the stereo mixes are great that you should have these versions too, if nothing else but to give you a different perspective! |
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Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN. Time: 1999-12-21 15:12:34 Comments: Correction, Marty. My set is a seven-lp PROMOTIONAL (white-label) Motown box. And yes, I was lucky enough to play 'em on-air when they were hits. Starting in late '66, anyway. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-21 16:56:50 Comments: Thanks, Marty Wesker, you and I seem to be the only ones here who really like the "Motown Singles Collection" box, Produced br Carey Mansfield and Reamstered by Bill Inglot and Dan Hersh. I LOVE the box and only wich it was bigger. I grew up on all those MONO singles and quite a few stereo LP sides. |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: Metro New York Time: 1999-12-21 19:15:12 Comments: While not able to contribute anything regarding a Motown Box set, I have recently acquired four cds which are Motown releases. On these I would like to comment. First, Marty, you are correct. All this is opinion, not fact. I think the Four Tops Millennium Collection is a clever marketing ploy to charge top dollar for a small number but well chosen group of performances everybody should have already had. And if they didn't, here they are! But nothing was done to make them sound good. At the same time I got the Four Tops 20th Century Masters disc, I bought the Temptations Greatest Hits (20 bit remastered by Kevin Reeves at Polygram studios). The difference is extroadinary. The Temptations disc is clear, lucid, not distorted, and very enjoyable with upfront, punchy sound. The Four Tops disc is distorted, muddy, and except for the wonderful performances, not recommendable. Also got the Ultimate Collection by Martha and the Vandellas. Excellent value with twenty five selections. Sound is only so so. You can hear dropouts on Heatwave in the beginning. Come and Get these Memories is murky sounding with lack of high end. You get the idea. Somebody just slammed whatever tapes were available on and let's go fellas. These songs mean a lot to me, so I am happy to have them, even if they don't have the attention they deserve in the mastering process. Finally, I have an absolute gem of sonic reproduction. I was able to find Eivets Rednow's wonderful lp from 1968 and the sound is fantastic. I am still amazed to discover that many otherwise knowledgable record dealers, etc. do not know who this is. The record istself never devulged who actually the artist is, as sort of a joke that even a cub scout could decypher. And the Mojazz reissue on cd does nothing to dispell the mystery. Alfie, the only single release backed with More Than a Dream is exquistely recorded with just the right balance of bass, treble, brightness, and so forth. A thoroughly enjoyable presentation of all nine songs. Harmonica never sounded better (sorry Jerry Murad!) Cherry Pink and Apple Blossem White not withstanding. Highly recommended! Four different Motown releases, with four different levels of sound. Buyer beware indeed! |
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Name: Ytram
Reskew Time: 1999-12-21 19:46:58 Comments: I have no idea who Eivets Rednow is. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-21 22:33:14 Comments: I don't think it's a matter of throwing just any Motown tape available on a CD. Motown sound quality varied all over the place. Simply because the majority of the 60's records were cut at Hitsville in Detroit, does not mean the sound should be uniform. Each one of the producers worked differently. Smokey Robinson produced sides tended to sound smooth, HDH quality was all over the Motown map, and "Mickey" Stevenson's productions were usually distorted and EQ'ed strange. Berry Gordy was also very "hands-on" in the production as well. And they all worked at breakneck speed. The Four Tops weren't that high of a priority around there. The two highest priority acts were The Supremes and The Temptations. The Temptations were so steady saleswise, that Norman Whitfield was able to experiment more. Smokey was there from the start, so he had status in the studio. Funny, while HDH had the most hits and had the clout, their sound was all over the place with their biggest act, The Supremes. They produced the Four Tops the most too. Martha Reeves always complained that they were pushed to the back burner. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-22 02:10:45 Comments: No, Beetlefan, count me as one of those who likes "Hitsville", also. I want the hit versions, as well as the stereo versions, since the stereo versions are not true to the single ones. It took me a long time to break down and buy the box set (I didn't get vol 2, because I didn't like the direction Motown went in the seventies), because I agreed with Mike Callahan that someone needed to go back to the "grand masters" and do the stereo "true to the hits". I wonder if whoever owns them, really cares about such things. So, for the time being, we are stuck with the mono versions. But don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-mono. Some of the best pop, rock, country, and r & b will never be stereo, because that's the way they were recorded. Mono is NOT an evil word! |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-22 08:28:45 Comments: There is a rare true stereo version of "Jailhouse Rock" by Elvis Presley which Tom Daly does have in his collection and I have heard the true stereo version. It is true to the hit mono version. The stereo version of Neil Diamond's "Kentucky Woman" off of the Frog King "Early Classics" compilation on vinyl is also true to the hit mono version. The stereo "Kentucky Woman" unfortunately isn't on any of the currently available CD's. I have heard this mix from Tom's collection as well. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-22 11:26:33 Comments: John, I firmly believe that there's no way anyone can recreate the sound of the Motown mono mixes in stereo. The mono is part of the mix. In a way, I like mono because it allows one to forget about the tachnology and just enjoy the music for a change, just as colorizing black and white movies tends to distract you from the story. The first two discs on the the second Hitsville box are quite good, and the remastering is superb. I would get them. |
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Name: roger
ledoux From: rhode island Time: 1999-12-22 11:40:20 Comments: just bought the newest mr maestro cd mr. dee jay and in it is a stereo version of stardust by the the dominoes and it sounds like the original to me and i just wanted to verify that it is the original version,if it is it's too bad they didn't have the streo version of deep purple that came out after stardust by the same group. thanks |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-22 12:12:08 Comments: Marty, Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell's biggest hits are available in stereo on their remastered Greatest Hits CD (one of the first, I believe, in Motown's 20-bit series). (BTW, I guess you must have dropped out of the Buc Stuocs.) |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 1999-12-22 19:13:22 Comments: Re: Mono vs. Stereo Beatlefan---- while I understand your motive in saying that you can "never recreate the mono feel with stereo", this is really not the case. Yes, there are some great mono mixes out there that would he hard to recreate with a stereo field. BUT, it all comes down to the remix engineer. One guy who is the GOD of recreating the mono "feel" of classic mono 45s in true stereo is Tom Moulton. If you have ever heard his remixes of "Dirty Water", "Louie Louie" ect...these are songs that have only been heard in mono, EVER, yet Toms mixes open up the sonic fidelity without compromising the "impact" of the mono mix. On top of that, many of the mono mixes that are around today arent all that great to start with when you really listen. Motown stuff is an example...there is tons of compression where it doesnt need to be, not enough bass level (because 1960s transistor radios couldnt reproduce it anyway), crappy drum sounds (the girl group records) because very few producers knew how to limit the drums properly,.. ect. Personally, if the multitrack tapes still exist, I want to hear it remixed for TODAYS equipment, not 1963's equipment, which by todays standards, is lo fi. The Hollies remixes, for example are just amazing. Compare those mixes with the mono singles and you'll see what I mean!! Mikey |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 1999-12-22 20:17:35 Comments: Mike, beetle, re: As far as the Motown multitracks go, I've got a 'net friend who has done some mastering for Motown, and he said the tapes do exist... 3 track up to sometime in 1965, at which point they got an 8 track. Obviously then went to 16 and beyond in later years, but... As far as not being able to get the same sound - you don't know unless you try. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-23 01:43:21 Comments: Luke, I've heard a couple Motown remixes and they do sound nice. But Mike and Luke, why do you *have* to have everything sound so perfect? If everything were so perfect it wouldn't be so fun to listen to. The distortion, the lack of bass, clarity, brightness, dropouts, mono, whatever, are all part of the original Motown experience. For example, as much as it sounds just like the mono mix, and as much as I like the remix of "Hang On Sloopy", it's just not the same without the distortion and dropouts. I realized this one day when I made a CD compilation of sixties oldies for a co-worker and used the stereo mix. It just didn't sound like a period piece. If we went around correcting everything we wouldn't have any sense of history left. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-23 02:14:47 Comments: Now, Beetlefan, this is where we part company. I do not associate noise (snaps, crackles, pops, distortion, dropouts, skips, warped sounds, etc.) with the songs I heard on the radio. My copy of the single, "I Go To Pieces" by Peter and Gordon skipped at one point. I was unable to replace it, at the time, so I got used to listening to it skip. When I got the song on an lp, I kept expecting it to skip at that spot in the record. Of course, it never did, nor would I want it to. Certainly, I don't care to hear an alternate take or rerecording of "I Go To Pieces", but I don't care to hear it "exactly" like I was forced to listen to it. Songs like "Hang On Sloopy" need never, ever, ever appear in mono again, as far as I'm concerned. There isn't anyway to improve the mono version already released and the stereo version is "true to the hit single". That's the way I want it, for what it's worth. I believe that for this music lover, to be able to hear the hits as if I'm in the studio, as they are being recorded is the ultimate high! That's happened a few times, especially with the advent of cds, and engineers using the original "grand masters". It's one of things that I live for. But, to each, their own. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 02:29:19 Comments: Here's another perspective on Motown. This was a company that wrote their own rules all the way down the line. They built their studios with less than state-of-the-art equipment. Their early engineers were young and not especially experienced. But the songs and the performances made these records endure for all these years despite the fact that they might have sounded better sonically if they had been recorded at Bell Sound or Universal Recording. The records weren't great because of all the limiting, eq, tape hiss and reverb -- they were great despite it. I think that anyone who is now at the stage in his life of comparing every single CD version domestic and import of "My Girl" by The Temptations and evaluating each one based on echo, highs, hiss, bass punch, minor dropout and fade out endings can no longer have any interest or appreciation of the record itself. Frankly, I don't think Motown (or the custodians at Universal) are really interested in having a Tom Moulton or Ron Furmanek go in and "remix" these songs the way they think they should sound. (No slight against these two individuals, be assured.) By going in and cleaning up all the tape hiss on some of the quieter songs (or quieter passages on some of the songs), by eliminating compression, by altering the texture of the reverb, you are now making "different" records. This may have some sort of clinical appeal.. but nothing more. I also think, from a creative standpoint, that H-D-H, "Smoke", Norman, Johnny, Hal, Mickey, Ivy and all the other producers and unsung engineers who slaved over these records so they would be approved for release by Berry and by Quality Control, should not have their work tampered with 35 or more years later. And by tampering, I mean remixing. Universal East is now down to two senior engineers, Suha Gur and Kevin Reeves. They are the people who will now do virtually all of the Motown re-mastering. Each song has an approved final mono master and a final stereo master and these should always be used. The new A/D converters are much improved over what existed back in 1987 and the higher bit mastering systems reflect a major improvement too. Those ingredients along with some judicious eq is acceptable, but more than that becomes revisionism and frankly, that doesn't interest me. |
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Name: Alan Time: 1999-12-23 03:51:47 Comments: I really have to take exception to the views of the Hollies being remixed. Both 20 Golden Greats (UK EMI ’87) and 30th Anniversary Collection (US EMI’93) are remixed and do not reflect the sound of the original records. The 30th Anniversary Collection contains many rare and unreleased stereo cuts, but It is a typical Ron Furmanck mix, i.e. – no concept of how 60’s echo and ambiance should be like and sounding nothing like the original. I was very disappointed that Marvin Gaye’s Lost and Found (Love Starved Heart – Expanded Edition) was not remixed for stereo. Many of the later tracks would have sounded fine in stereo. They could have given us more of a bonus, other than the extra tracks, for purchasing this title twice. Some crackpot said there are stereo versions of the Ronnets without “grunge”. It doesn’t sound like too much fun but does anyone have any information? I have the old PSI British box set with the stereo version Ronnets first LP. The Christmas LP is stereo too. |
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Name: Glenn
Sauter Time: 1999-12-23 09:45:28 Comments: For Mike Arcidiacono: You can give kudos to Tom Moulton if you want but some of the worst remixes I've heard in recent years are attributable to him. Lonely Weekends by Charlie Rich was remixed by Tom and in his typical fashion, he tried to create a nonexistant third channel sound which resulted in this remix taking on a quality like the old Capitol duophonic. When you hear what this song should sound like when listening to it on the Bear Family package you realize how bad Tom's remix is. Also shame on Mike Callahan for giving the Varese Vintage Charlie Rich CD a "A" (as I recall) without even makin any mention of this bad remix. That said...Hapyy Holidays! |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 1999-12-23 10:03:36 Comments: Marty, you make more sense than is legal. Once more I agree with you. The "magic" of many of the sixties songs which endure is really in spite of the limitations sonically speaking. The fact that the entire catalog is still being published and received well by the public speaks volumes about the inherent quality of the material itself. Last night I made a comp cd which included In My Lonely Room by M & V, and boy, did that song just jump right off the platter. When in line with other period songs, they hold up strongly. Put a Beatles song next to a Four Tops song, next to Pet Clark tune, and it flows beautifully, even though the Beatles and Pet were recorded under extremely different circumstances. I do not need the nth degree of perfection to enjoy this music, and obviously, neither do many others. I do stand by the statement I made regarding the Temptations 20 bit mastering sounding better than the Millenium Four Tops release. Somehow, some warmth creeped into the Temps mastering that was missing in the Four Tops, and I don't think the original recordings had a lot to do with it. I have heard Four Tops material released as a single song on an other label comp, and it sounded better than Motown itself releases. That's what I am speaking of here. |
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Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 1999-12-23 10:30:02 Comments: RE:Recent Posts While I am the kind of guy who respects others opinions, I DO feel the need to address posts that declare that "Hiss, Droputs, Noise and other artifacts" are part of the listening experience" Holy Mackeral!! As the economic force that KEEPS RECORD COMPANIES IN BUSINESS, we have the absolute right to insist that the companies taking our money put out the BEST product possible. This is especially true in the case of catalog items that these same companies have been selling and reselling to us for 30 years, like Motown (and how) The Beatles. They have made billions on this music, repackaging,(how many times are the Red and Blue LPs going to be released?) creating theme Cds, ect . Dont you feel they have a responsibility to the buyer? In the case of reissues, that means getting sonic output that is as close to the master tape as possible with todays technology. What was on the master is the vision of the artist, producer, board engineer, mastering engineer and A&R chief. Dropouts, excessive hiss, noise, squeels and sloppy edits that exist because Motown uses a 5th generation stereo copy to press a CD from (because their vaults are in disarray) were not on the original master and arent part of the music!!!!! With the tools available today, even to the public, there is no justifiable reason to issue Cds with lousy sound when the original pristine multitrack tapes are available. I mean, if you want noise, get the old scratchy 45 and have a ball. To each his own. But the argument that remixing is "changing history" doesnt hold water with me, hey, its the SAME multis they mixed the mono from. Nothings different in the performance!! They were mixing back then with a completely different frame of mind.....AM radio. AM Radio HAD no sonics. By all means, give the job to a competent person, like a Tom Moulton, who sits there and agonizes over the tiny details that gave the track its identity. But to not make the music as vibrant and clean as it can be with all the amazing technology (and I mean that, whats possible today with computer technology is mind blowing) is a disservice to the artists, engineers and us resissue buyers, without whose revenue many record companies (read Motown) would not even post a profit. |
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Name: Tom
Daly Website: Skyline Digital Audio Restoration Service From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-23 11:37:29 Comments: Perhaps the concept of "remixing" for CD issue from the original multis has to be taken on a case-by-case basis, as well as on an individual engineering basis. Ron Furmanek's remixes were not facsimiles of the original mono or stereo mixes. I'll cite the Freddie & the Dreamers' CD as an example. The original single had reverb on Freddie Garrity's lead vocal on "I'm Telling You Now" and "You Were Made for Me." Furmanek's remix is bone dry. On the Fats Domino box set, They Call Me the Fat Man, "The Big Beat" has 15 ips tape echo, and on the My Blue Heaven CD, it's completely dry; the original 45 had 7.5 ips tape echo! Now the antithesis of this erroneous remixing can be heard in the Simon & Garfunkel set, Old Friends, where Bob Irwin & Vic Anesini remixed the first three albums from the original four-track tapes. The remixes sound just like the original albums, only CLEAN! In competent hands, remixes can have the correct flavor, but left in the hands of those who can't identify effects from reference records, remixes can be a disaster. In some ways, I credit the Furmanek remixes with the demise of the Capitol Collector's Series and the Legends of Rock & Roll Series on EMI. Sure, they were clean, but they were also sterile. Tom Moulton tries very hard to provide stereo from sources where stereo could not otherwise be obtained. "Dirty Water" and "Lonely Weekends" are, to the best of my knowledge, from synched tapes. Without Tom's synch mastering, we'd never have any stereo on some of the songs we now have. For those who don't like synched stereo, the mono mixes are out there and you have your choice. In retrospect, I can't think of any oldies collector who did not appreciate the stereo remix of Pet Sounds, even though the remixes weren't 100% true to the mono LP mix. With that in mind, I'll just state that it's my opinion that remixes have their place, as long as the hit mixes aren't completely replaced by mixes that aren't true to the original mixes. At least Capitol/EMI kept the Ten Best budget series with the original mixes available to compete with the Furmanek remixes, giving collectors a choice. As long as we're offered a choice, what does it matter if there are stereo mixes, mono mixes or remixes out there? If we can get what it is we want on at least one CD issue, I don't see that there's a problem. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-23 12:15:42 Comments: Thanks, Marty and Jay for backing me up! I was referring specifically to the Motown MONO mixes. They're what Berry Gordy and the morning committe approved all those years ago. I may not have been as articulate, but Marty said it all best. If the distrotions are on the tape, that's what I want to hear on CD. I didn't mean vinyl playback produced artifacts, John. If they were mixed to AM radio speakers, so be it. I want to hear those results on CD because that's what made it to the 45's. When I heard the 45's when they were brand new, I didn't hear the crackles and pops. When I heard them on the radio I didn't hear the crackles and pops. When we all listened to vinyl, we all mentally blocked out the artifacts. It wasn't until the CD age did we really sit up and take notice of them. So, I therefore, stand by my argument. |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 1999-12-23 13:07:49 Comments: Tom, re: Just a couple minor points on the S&G set. I believe that "Wednesday Morning 3 AM" was 3 track, "Parsley, Sage..." was 8 track, and "Sounds Of Silence" was mostly 8 track (possibly some 3 & 4 - obviously the title cut was dubbed from 3). At any rate - yes, Bob Irwin did an outstanding job, and that set is really my basis for what remixes can and should be. His work with The Byrds is quite outstanding as well. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 15:15:04 Comments: This has turned into an interesting forum regarding remixes. Here are some additional viewpoints. I agree that in a perfect world every compilation producer could go into a state-of-the-art mixing/mastering studio (as Sony has in New York), get the original master tapes and be given the time and budget to "knock yourself out." On a Simon & Garfunkel box set, where Sony could anticipate selling a ton of these for a fairly high ticket price, the cost outlay is worth it to them. Likewise The Byrds, Janis Joplin, Santana. But on lesser-marquee-value artists, it just isn't worth it to them. On an artist whose material is now in "The Nice Price" line, I'm not sure that putting Bob Irwin on the case would be cost-effective. In any case, Legacy at least is willing to do high quality remixing/ remastering in part because their earliest CD work was so shabbily done (circa 1987,88,89.) I refuse to believe that it was a calculated effort at that time to make these a "planned obsolescense" item so buyers would need to buy "newly remastered" versions. I think the technology just got better and we now want to upgrade our CD libraries on artists we like. Mikey, I don't believe Universal is working from fifth generation masters on Motown product. As for two items cited: tape hiss and artifacts. Tape hiss can be on the original 3 and 4 track masters. On Motown songs which start out with a solo guitar or other quiet instrument, this may have been originally miked (no relation to you) in such a way that noise and/or hiss is on the multi. That will not disappear on a stereo mix. Some of this may have been camouflaged on the mono mixes. But I don't think tape hiss on specifically Motown songs necessarily means they have been taken from production masters far down the food chain. As for artifacts, these are primarily caused (dare I say) by ANY processing system... Sonic, Cedar, Cool Edit Pro... run improperly (read: too high a setting in any mode.) I am very much against introducing artifacts at any price even if they may seem to clear up other anomalies in the original tapes. But again, that's my opinion! What about some replies from Massie, Daugherty and other intelligent sorts who are supporters of this forum? |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 15:51:09 Comments: I agree with Marty as well. Since i will be 54 in Jan, i heard all of these songs when they came out. I prefer my Cd's to sound like the originals. I don't spend time looking for drop out or flaws, i only go by the test of does it sound like i remember, if not i don't want it. Given some things were not heard by me in stereo at the time as the were either on 45's or the radio i am please to see a stereo version if it sounds like the original. I loathe alternate takes and of course rerecordings. In the event that more than one version sounds correct to me, and i like them equally i fall back on this board or the the newsletter to select the one to keep. I do feel that we have room for all of these in the market so long as we can see what they are are (no labeling as oringinal masters if they are not). |
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Name: Mister Y Website: Time: 1999-12-23 17:02:06 Comments: So, Mr. Wekser, what are you implying in the last sentence of your previous message? That those of us who like remixes and prefer stereo to mono are not intelligent? That's sure what it sounded like to me. If that's what you meant, then you owe the readers of this board an apology, a large number of whom, like myself, read but refuse to post because of the argumentative nature of many of the participants. Music is subjective and neither you nor any other self-styled expert can dictate what people must like and why. People's opinions are their own and do not deserve to be denigrated. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-23 17:31:28 Comments: Mr. Y, if everyone simply agreed to disagree here, this would be a boring place and no one would even log on to this site. We aren't arguing, this is a healthy debate among very opinionated individuals whom are strong in their convictions. I think most of us like it this way. It's all good as long as it doesn't degrade into name calling. I'm not offended by Marty's remark. He wasn't trying to say anyone was not intelligent. Marty, it is very true of what you stated about artifacts. I clean up vinyl ant tapes and I always find myself making decisions of what noise to leave in. Sometimes I get lucky, sometimes not. I can't see insulting an engineer because there's hiss on a song. There could be a good reason he didn't remove it. |
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Name: Willie Time: 1999-12-23 18:21:39 Comments: I think that we are all getting a little cranky because we haven't had our 4th quarter fix of the BSN newsletter. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 18:45:00 Comments: When I went to high school, a teacher very often would ask if there were any other "intellegent" replies to a question, without meaning that previous replies were "unintelligent" or made by unintelligent people. I merely asked other voices who have been absent of late to give some of their opinions. So you must have read something into my remark that was certainly not intended. No one here is better or smarter than anyone else who participates in the BSN forum. Oops! Four o'clock. Must be off to my Mensa meeting!! |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 19:16:04 Comments: Mr. Y - how are Crosby, Stills, Nash doing? Just kidding. Lighten up. You should consider posting your opinions more often. Sometimes this site looks like a poker party (as opposed to polka party) between some close friends (i.e. Beetlefan, Luke, Tom, etc.) What you should find interesting "Y", is that some of the people who logon to this site are just average consumers, some of the people are former radio disc jockeys who participate in this forum because they have fond feelings about music they not only liked as listeners but also played on the radio. Others have worked in record promotion for major companies, one person OWNS a major record company, one person runs a major record company, several do professional mastering and have current releases on the market... and the list goes on. On this site we are all equals with valid opinions. Those of us who have a professional connection to the business (of which there are more than a few who regularly post here) do not have OPINIONS which are any more valid than yours. Nor do we mean to come off as self-styled experts. We just bring a different perpective to the party since some of us are currently compiling, producing and mastering CD's. Previous posts by Taragon owner Eliot Goshman, or compilers/mastering engineers like Steve Massie, or Skyline owner Tom Daly, or radio's Ken (just ahead of much more music) Garland or Dave (just ahead of.. etc.) Daugherty should be very enlightening to music fans who wonder why record companies don't do this, or don't do that. These pros are giving you good answers...all you have to do is read them. In closing (you could watch all of "Gone With The Wind" or read all of "War And Peace" before I'm through) let me just say that often an idea for a song or a concept reflected on this site can be used on a forthcoming CD. Certainly Varese and Taragon are aware of this forum and read the posts with some regularity. I don't think anyone tries to be nasty or mean-spirited here. As Beetlefan pointed out, music fans, no- make that "die hard" music fans, tend to be opinionated. That's what makes this place fun. Really at Christmas time this year there are no bad or evil people at BSN ... well, except for that #$&%+# owner who didn't deliver our latest issue in time for Christmas! |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 1999-12-23 19:17:45 Comments: Marty, I've always been one to contend that anything transferred from analog into digital should be as faithful to the original sound as possible -- warts and all. Since the discussions here often lead in diverse directions, there's no telling just how someone is going to react to comments anyone might leave. The fact is that Sony has done us all a great service, as you have said, in remastering much of what were grave disappointments the first time around. They haven't always been successful (to wit: the Dylan remasters, by and large, could hardly be called improvements), but they have demonstrated that their hearts are in the right places. I might get cranky about some of the songs I'd love to have on CD (thank you for your efforts to get us GOT A MATCH? I hope they pan out), but the truth is that I really have no complaints about the sound quality on these grand old recordings. I'm just thankful that someone actually thought enough of old farts like me to release them in the first place. For whatever reasons I might complain about the endless duplication of the more popular recordings -- the ones that will actually provoke the impulse buyer into spending his money, I'm objective enough to know that guys like you aren't doing this just to please me. Mr. Y's comments have some merit to them, although it is clear that he misinterpreted your meaning. My own new year's resolution is to avoid the wrath of some posters to this board. I hope to do this by NOT listing any new stereo *FINDS* (Such as the Aussie Peter & Gordon) without first listening on my audio system. So many folks here contend that headphones are better, well, they're not. My mistakes were made when listening thru phones not thru speakers. My apologies to anyone who bought a CD based on my reportage here. It won't happen again. Finally, some months ago, I had a series of cordial emails from someone here about our home-made databases of oldies. Forgive me, sir, for not remembering your name or saving your emails. Since yours was far more extensive than mine, I was wondering if you have fields for songwriters amongst that myriad of data you are tracking. |
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Name: Bubba From: Beautiful Downtown Burbank Time: 1999-12-23 21:04:15 Comments: Jeepers! Darned if all of the experts who are nitpicking about mono/stereo, hiss, artifacts, and all haven't each and everyone missed the point! Not one of y'all has been able to master the good old music the way I remember it, listening while riding in my Chevy. I've never heard a good oldie released on cd, mono or stereo, enhanced with cue burn at the start of the selections, about 5% injection of 20 cycle hum from a poorly filtered power supply, at least 10% distortion due to clipping by the radio station trying to eeek out the last tenth of a percent modulation on negative peaks, a predominant 10-kc whistle (which got louder toward sunset) due to adjacent channel interference, neat audio fades under bridges, and groovy buzzing from power lines. Now THAT's the way music was meant to be heard, folks! Maybe as a group we could get the companies to go back and remaster the music the way it really was! Oh, and I forgot, let's also be sure and overlap the beginnings and ends of each song with deejay chatter, jingles, PSA's or spots to really make things authentic. No sir, no cleaning up the way it really was for me! Heck, I'm so excited now that I'm gonna get out an old Joe Fingers Carr EP and fire up my close'n'play with the sapphire needle and see if I can grind a few more high frequency distortion burns into the vinyl. First, though, I'm gonna have to put a new piece of friction tape (I'm out of duct tape) on the hole in the speaker to keep the cone from rubbing. |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo Time: 1999-12-23 22:04:29 Comments: Boys, boys. Let's all calm down here. I was always told, during my younger years, that when two people fight, they both lose. Anyway, fellow stereophiles, here's one to digest - I would like to know if there is a true stereo version of Gene Pitney's "Town Without Pity". Mr. Wekser? Mr. Y? Mr. Natchez? ANYONE?? |
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Name: Marty
Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 1999-12-23 22:12:38 Comments: Just a short note to wish everyone Seasons Greetings and the best for rest of 1999 - and may you find all the stereo you could ever wish for in the year 2000. By the way, one last note about "The Little Drummer Boy" - I've found lots of information on the Internet about this and Mr. Simeone. E-mail me if interested. One short note about the recent comments - in one instance, I'd like to hear an improved version of an oldie - when it's out of phase and corrected - such as Western Union. Happy 2000 all. |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-23 22:18:08 Comments: No need for anyone to be sensitive, just realize that what we mean to convey and what we actually write are not always the samething. This could be due to the inherant problems of writing on a BBS, readers perception and prejudices or the writers lack effort. I know i have reread many i my post at work and wondered what i was thinking. So Marty i will see you at the meeting (was it 4 oclock). |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 1999-12-23 23:23:23 Comments: Dear Mr."Y", Here, have a nice glass of egg nog! Sit down for a moment and let's chat. Now, what exactly went wrong today that made you take out your agressions on poor Marty? You don't have to tell me, just think about it for a moment. There is a technical term for it: Displacement. As in displaced anger, which surfaces at inappropriate moments, like in your post. Seriously, I think you read something that just wasn't there. While not personally involved in your diatribe, I feel as though I must say that if you do not post, as you say, because of the "argumentative" stance of many you read here, you, my friend have posted the most "argumentative" post I have ever seen on this board. I myself have misinterpreted one of Tom's posts, and he went on to explain it to me, so I understand how it can happen. But I hope my response was more tempered than yours. I believe we all come here with a gentlemans agreement, to be civil, polite, reasonable, conversational, informative, enlightening, responsible, and honest. If you can read your post, and refer it to the preceeding sentence, I hope you are "intelligent" enough judge honestly, whether or not it it fit within those admittedly ideal guidelines. This is the Christmas season, and I sincerely hope that you have a wonderful holiday, filled with good thoughts and good things. And may you enjoy perhaps mans greatest gift, Peace. As in on earth, and good will to all. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-23 23:59:08 Comments: I feel like i'm in a group therapy session and we're all about to do a group hug. |
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Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, Texas Time: 1999-12-24 00:25:00 Comments: May the year 2000 bring us some new <----STEREO---->goodies! Despite the wrangling about mono vs. stereo, hiss vs. silence, remix vs. original, the point about his whole forum is STEREO oldies. There are many sides to this question: 1. Music perservation - of couse the original, artist approved mixes should be conserved and made available 2. Music restoration - as best can be done the original tapes need to found for "missing" songs -- reconstruct, if necessary with respect to original records 3. Music archeology - unrealesed songs and mixes All we can hope for is that the same folks that are concerned with #1 are also concerned with #2 and #3 so that possible STEREO releases (the point of this forum) are not lost in a pile of thrown out tapes. Happy Holidays! Paul |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 1999-12-24 03:43:14 Comments: To anyone who questions M.W.'s commitment to Stereo Excellence, just pick up one of 1999's best "collectors" releases, Discoveries STEREO Oldies. Both the vocal and instrumental volumes are 100% STEREO, and fine tuned to a fare thee well! Another project which ranks in the Best of 1999 category is EAST SIDE SOUND, Volumes 1 through 4. These six discs represent an enormous amount of work on the part of a label which need apologize to no one regarding the sound quality of its releases. Who said "Talk is cheap?" Marty puts his money where his mouth is! |
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Name: Bruce Riley From: Brisbane Australia Time: 1999-12-24 07:32:42 Comments: If anyone is looking for a program to manage their music collection,they might want to check out'Music Catalog'for Windows 3.1+,and others at www.primasoft.com from Canada. There are time-limited demo versions you can download from the above site to try out. The program will allow you to search for any CD or CD's by song title,artist,or any field you like. Just enter the title or artists name,and each time you hit the search button,it will find the next CD containing that title or artist. If you rate each track,e.g. A,B,C - M or S etc.,as you load your CD's into the program,VERY tedious I know,but then you can easily find the best version of any song in your collection at the'push of a button' so to speak. A few tips/things I have found that might be of use if you decide to give it a try. The program is not case sensitive,but it IS punctuation/space sensitive,so if you have a certain track on more than one CD,you must enter it EXACTLY the same way each time. If you find entries out of order,e.g. Billboard'69 before'62,you will probably find an extra space or the like in there somewhere. As for artists,once you have entered a name,a category is automatically created,then you must use the'down arrow'to add to that category,(i.e. don't enter the same name more than once in the 'Artists Names'field). Various artists CD's are by far the most time consuming,as you have to enter each track and artist individually. If you use the'Compositions'box for the tracks,and the'Members' box for the artists you shouldn't run out of room. Early on(luckily),I decided to use'and'in all song titles and'&'in the artists names. I just felt'& When I Die'for instance,would look a bit ridiculous. One last tip, I left'The'out of groups names where possible otherwise these would all enter under 'T'. I realise all of this sounds like a hell of a lot of work,but I don't know of an easier way,and once done its a breeze to find anything in your collection. I find the program is easy to use once you get the hang of it,there are other things it can do that I haven't got to yet,and the whole thing will backup to a single floppy disc if you zip it. Otherwise you can look in the'Music'folder,and just copy the'Data.. dat'file,which is where your data is stored,direct to a floppy. Then if, er I mean WHEN you have a disaster,(after all we're talking about computers here),you can transfer this file back into an empty program,and all your stuff will be back again. This will definitely keep you off the streets over Christmas and probably for some time to come,so have a Merry One,a Happy One,and all you one-fingered typistes,be very careful when you get to 'The McCoys',or you might just end up with 'Hang On Sloppy'!Have fun.Bye. |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 1999-12-24 11:45:32 Comments: Since I was specifically asked, I can answer Luke's question about about an existing stereo mix of "Town Without Pity" by Gene Pitney. IT DOES EXIST....IN ITALIAN! The stereo track can be found on the recent Sequel import two-fer "Gene Italiano/Nessuno Mi Puo Guidicare" (NEM CD 894). "Town Without Pity" ("Citta Spietata") has wonderful instrument separation and the track will please any BSN stereo seeker. The entire CD contains 26 Italian-sung tracks, but the second album is MONO, although the original Musicor stereo LP is pictured (Can anyone confirm if the LP WAS in stereo?). Of course, this means that the English version of "Town Without Pity" was multi-tracked. So why it hasn't been remixed is one of those yet-to-be-answered stereophile questions. By the way, Bear Family's "Gene Pitney: Hits & Misses" CD (BCD 15 724) contains both Pitney's English and German versions of "Town" in MONO. |
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Name: Ken
Garland From: LA Time: 1999-12-24 12:26:02 Comments: Looking for ideas on what CD has the best version of Dearest by Mikey and Sylvia (MC please save my sanity by putting out the the new book). |
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Name: Walt
Haake Website: The Mists of Avalon From: Princeton, NJ Time: 1999-12-24 14:46:46 Comments: Hi everyone. And Seasons Greetings. I'm one of those "quiet" participants on this message board who reads everything you more active and knowledgable members write. Every now and then I've got something to contribute, or, more likely, a question or two to ask. I just discovered an interesting double CD: "It's About Time" by the Kit Kats. For those of you who have never heard of them, the Kit Kats (also known as New Hope) had a couple of noteworthy singles: "Let's Get Lost On a Country Road" (#119 in 1966) and "Won't Find Better than Me" (#57 in 1970 under the name New Hope). They also performed the absolute best recording of "Nutrocker" these ears have ever heard. The new CD contains just about everything this "ultimate bar band" from Philly ever recorded. It was remixed from original multi-track tapes by Tom Moulton and mastered by Moulton and Greg Vaughn. More info at www.jamguy.com. I must say that the new improved sound threw me at first; the singles didn't sound like I remember them. On the other hand, it is thrilling to hear the details I never heard before. I just picked up the two Hard-to-Find instrumental CDs on Eric, and want to thank Tom Daly and Bill Buster for the fine work. Being an instrumentals collector, I have to admit I already had most of the selections on both CDs. But this is one of those rare cases where I thought it was important to "show my support" for the fine work some individuals in the reissue business are doing. Bill and Tom: how about a soul instrumentals collection, one that includes Al Kent's "You've Got to Pay the Price" and a few others not included in the Rhino and Hip-O soul instro collections? All the best to everyone on this. Keep the banter up. There are alot of us quieter folks out here reading every word. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-24 16:01:30 Comments: To Jay Connors... thank you for your recent kind comments. Your check is in the mail! And since you were so flattering, it will be YOU that I take tomorrow to Mike & Brenda Callahan's gala Christmas Party. Problem is they never gave me their damn address. (Now before others of you chime in: "gee, we didn't get invited", I really am just kidding.) But as for your comments on these packages, most of the credit really goes to Steve Massie who did the bulk of the tape and disc sourcing and all of the sound processing needed (and on the East Side set, MUCH was needed.) Cary Mansfield also deserves a lot of credit for creating these packages as head of Varese Vintage, a label very dedicated to issuing interesting and unique product. My small contribution was the final mastering and subtle touch-ups, but a relatively small part of the work on these releases. This is something I ask you all to try and believe... some reissue projects are easy, some are hard. Some will dazzle you mainly because good sources (though perhaps hard to find), ultimately become available. Some will never sound great because of the limitations of the remaining available tape or disc sources, though these projects may be worth doing DESPITE these limitations. 99% of what you buy on labels like Varese Vintage, Taragon and Ace UK have been mastered as best as possible given the fact that there is never realistically totally unlimited time and budget. You may occasionally be let down a bit, but it is not due to a lack of care and concern from the above companies. All they can do is give it their best and hope to score a home run as often as possible. |
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Name: Mark
Mathews From: L.I., NY Time: 1999-12-24 17:26:24 Comments: Greetings! I'm another silent reader who enjoys the contributions of all the regular posters here. Here in the holiday season I'd like to thank all of you for keeping it going, for the rest of us who might be a little shy about chiming in (see the hoopla below...). It can be very easy to misunderstand the light-heartedness of a statement when it's read and not heard. My post today is about an important spin-off of the stereo-oldies topic, mentioned a lot lately; Digital Noise Reduction vs. artifacts. I believe it's popular to use DNR these days as a response to the general complaints in years past about the lack of audio quality in older CD re-issues of our favorite music, particularly where finding a high quality tape source is (or was) not possible. As posted earlier, lots of pop music was just recorded that way. I, myself am forgiving for a certain amount of noise in my oldies, since it was always there years ago. However, I do love to hear them now as clean as possible, with best frequency range, without making it sound "funny" IF it can be done. They make some nice computer tools for this now, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using them, but over-using them can change the "feel" of the original music. I heard a recently made CD of oldies, very good quality on the sound with little noise, but I felt there were too many weird digital artifacts on a few tracks for the songs to sound right. I then heard the same disc at a friends house, on his system with different speakers, EQ, etc.etc. I couldn't hear the artifacts at all and the same songs sounded great. I had always taken into account that we all hear differently and there is no right or wrong when it comes to sound (yes, we can often agree when something sounds really bad or really good, but subtle preferences...those are tough) but I hadn't been aware of the equipment and EQ factor. I now realize that when I hear an audio anomoly I thought was obvious, the engineer who mastered it might not have heard it at all, or it was much less noticable with the EQ set differently. Artifacts can stand out in certain frequency ranges, just as parts of the music does. Gives me a better appreciation for the work that often goes into mastering a new CD by someone who cares about the sound. For this reason, when I'm preparing something for CD that friends might hear, after using digital processing on a track I'll try to play it on several different systems. Sometimes you can clearly hear a problem in another listening environment that you couldn't hear "in the studio". It's amazing how often it's really tough to decide which way is better, leaving the hiss in, lowering it a bit with small artifacts, or removing it completely and wondering if the recording now sounds "odd". I think that dicision would be very stressful for me if I were making a CD that many audiophiles with different tastes were going to hear, it's much easier just making them to suit my own ear. Thanks to all guys (and gals, where are the stereo-loving gals??)who try to do just that for us oldies/stereo/audio fans. Thanks once again to Mike & Brenda for this wonderful forum. Happy Holidays and peace to all. -Markie |
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Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 1999-12-24 18:10:59 Comments: Bubba, you got it right, good buddy. Nothing in my CD collection -- mono or stereo -- sounds like it did on the radio. The whole point of remastering is to MAKE IT BETTER whether it's to digital, analog, video, film, whatever. I could be wrong, but I beleieve the artists and technicians of yesteryear would have used today's technology if it had been available to them. Onward and upward to stereo and beyond. |
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Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 1999-12-24 20:29:44 Comments: So I'm just sitting here minding my own business, engaged in a never ending gift wrapping marathon, when it suddenly occurs to me that I haven't checked the BSN site lately. I log in and it doesn't take too long to see that there's another debate going on, and on top of my that, my name gets mentioned twice! Well, I need a break from the wrapping anyway, so let me wade in with both feet. First, thanks to Marty Wekser for including my name in his list of "experts", although I suspect that has now lowered the definition of the term. Secondly, I'm honored for the association with Marty Wekser and Steve Massie who both do exceptional work. I have personally witnessed Massie agonizing over the smallest detail of a remix to insure that it holds true to the original. While Steve does have the technical know-how to make that happen, he also has an overwhelming knowledge of the music which aids him greatly in achieving outstanding results.. Marty's work speaks for itself. He has been involved with many outstanding mastering projects. They both take a "less is more" approach which I generally applaud. While we'd all like to hear our favorite oldies in a nice clean noise free environment with an outstanding stereo mix, the source tapes for many songs just don't allow for that. There are limitations, and as Marty correctly pointed out, much of the noise and hiss are inherent in the multi-tracks themselves. Songs recorded in 3 or 4 track formats don't give re-issue producers much latitude to achieve a spectacular stereo mix. There just aren't enough channels to play with. I know both Marty and Steve (and myself as well) just don't believe in altering the sound of the original product just so that a hiss-free mix or a stereo mix can be achieved. We will do the best we can within the limitations of what we are working with. I know I would much rather retain some hiss or noise, but also retain the original full frequency response of the recording, and the original sound. In looking back at some of the remixes I have done, I know it's damn difficult to take a 4 track tape, mix it to stereo and have it retain the characteristics that made the mono single mix a hit song. You have to approach each song on a case by case basis. Some songs work better in mono, some work better in stereo, and when all the stars and planets allign correctly, you can acheive BOTH mono and stereo mixes that are complimentary of each other. While the compact disc has given us the ability to hear the music much better than we ever have, you have to remember that most oldies were never recorded or mixed to be heard with that amount of clarity. It's both a blessing and a curse....we can hear the music better, but we can also hear the non-musical parts of it (i.e. noise) better, as well. It then becomes a trade-off. I love to hear a really good stereo remix of a 60's classic, but it many cases, it fails to duplicate the hit mono mix. Lately there seems to be a trend to eliminate noise at any cost. Some re-issue specialists leave an unmistakable sonic fingerprint on the songs they work on. Too often, every song on the CD has that same "sound" to it, and the sound is not true to the original recording. Granted, most of the noise is gone, but so is a fair amount of the music. How would you feel going to see a re-issue of a classic movie from the golden age of film, and then finding out that to achieve a better picture, they had to lop off the top 1/3 of the film. Sure you could probably tell what film it was, and if you really paid attention, you could figure out what was going on in the missing part of the film, but would that really be the way you'd want to watch the film? Wouldn't you put up with a bit of film yellowing and dust on the print to be able to see the whole film. Why should music be any different? Recently I heard a remastered version of a piano based hit song. One of the marvelous things about a piano is the harmonics and the overtones they provide. This song was so overprocessed to get rid of hiss that all the harmonics and overtones and room ambiance were gone. You could hear the key strike the piano string, but that was it. Nothing more. It was just dead...noise free, but dead. There are some very god computer based audio editing programs out there right now, and some that are so/so. All can be used to improve audio quality up to a point, and some can do a remarkable job with little or no artifacts. ALL of them however, can easily be overused,and then it's the artifact parade. I'm all for doing remixes where possible, but maintaining the sound of the original recording, even if that involves maintaining some of the noise as well. Someone mentioned Bob Irwin and Vic Anasini who I think are very good at achieving a very nice balance between giving the song a 90's sound from a technical standpoint, but also incorporating all that made the song a hit in the first place. Well, that's all for now. Gotta get back to the wrapping. Happy Holidays everyone! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-25 05:13:52 Comments: Thank you Marty Wekser and Dave Daughtery! I probably need say no more on this issue. They said it best! I feel they pretty much argued my points for me. Oh, but you know I will comment further on this. Luke, quit hiding! :-) |
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Name: barry
margolis From: minneapolis, mn Time: 1999-12-25 18:06:50 Comments: Happy Christmas, etc. Haven't posted for awhile, but I'm looking for a UK Sequel CD called "What Is Soul" by Ben E. King, which covers his excellent later singles for Atco. Does anybody know about the stereo content...or more importantly where I can find a copy? If you know, email me directly at barryma10@aol.com. Thanx and happy new year! |
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Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 1999-12-25 20:09:40 Comments: Christmas Time Is Here Again, ain't been 'round since you know when......Merry Christmas and a few comments. First, in reply to Alan, referring to me as a "crackpot" for having a 7 1/2 ips reel of some of the Ronettes songs in stereo w/o tape grunge, etc. I made it clear that these are dubbed from another 7 1/2 ips reel, which was copied from the 2-track master mixdowns. Thank you very much. Second, will the person or persons with the fabulous true stereo mix of "Woman" PLEASE RELEASE IT!!! Yes, it does have the earmarks of a Ron Furmanek remix, but it's clean as a whistle and deserves to be released. Finally, I offer my kudos to: Tom Daly for the fabulous mastering job on both HTF Instrumentals CD's, you made the search for the CD's worthwhile; Mike and Brenda Callahan, for making BSN, both the newsletter and the discussion forum, possible for us "stereophiles", may your holiday season be blessed and wonderful; and finally, all of the posters of this board, have a wonderful holiday, don't drink and drive, and make sure when you're listening to that music in the car, be sure it's loud and STEREO. Happy Holidays! |
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Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 1999-12-25 21:56:20 Comments: Beetlefan, I appreciate your followup, and I'm glad we share some viewpoints. Just as a point of reference......I wasn't arguing a point for you, for me or for anyone else. I was invited to offer an opinion, and that's all I did. Anyway, have a great holiday and Happy New Year (almost!). |
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Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 1999-12-26 15:15:22 Comments: Hey Marty! Senor Natchez! It's me - LEX!! I was the one who posed the inquiry into Gene Pitney! Remember me? The one whom you saved a great deal of loot on the Stevie Wonder box? That's right - me - LEX!! |
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Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 1999-12-26 15:25:56 Comments: Beetle, re: Sorry...just got back from a few days away:-) At any rate...I don't think there's a whole lot I'd personally comment on here anyway. All the better I suppose:-) Merry Xmas, etc, etc... |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-26 15:45:34 Comments: Chicken! Happy new year! |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 1999-12-26 15:46:23 Comments: OOPS!!!! Thanks for your correction about who wanted to know more about "Town Without Pity" in stereo, Lex. If the money I saved you on the Wonder box goes towards one of the Pitney CDs I recommended, I'm sure you won't hold my mistaken attribution to Luke against me. |
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Name: David
Goodwin Website: Time: 1999-12-26 15:58:00 Comments: Hey all, I have a query regarding the Japanese Rolling Stones CDs. I have CDR copies of lots of them, but I actually *have* two of 'em on CD--Satanic Majesties and MHR2--and I must say, I'm VERY impressed with the presentation. Would ANYBODY here have any idea where I could get more of them, even the "not as desirable" ones? I've been scouring Japanese CD stores online for ages, but haven't come up with much... David |
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Name: Steve Massie Time: 1999-12-26 18:38:41 Comments: I've been in the process of moving here to South Florida and haven't had a chance to keep up on the latest BSN posts until today.First, thanks to Marty Wekser and Dave Daugherty for the kind comments and to Jay Connors for his comments on the Varese "Discoveries" and "East LA" discs. As Marty Wesker mentioned, a great deal of time and effort went in to making them sound as good as possible.The East L.A. project was literally more than a year in the making from original idea to final CD release.I was dealing with the majority of those tracks being available only on vinyl.But with some perisistence on the part of Cary Mansfield we were able to come up with tapes that, in some cases, had never been used before.But the vinyl sourced tracks took an enormous amount of time to de-hiss and de-click without making the processing sound obtrusive.After awhile you literally lose your perspective on the final results and that's where working with Marty Wekser is such a plus for me. After I've finished my mastering Marty takes the CDR's to MCA's studio and does the final eq'ing.I know once the music is turned over to Marty that the final result is going to be absolutely the best it can be.By the way, for those of you who think that the current stereo version of "Hang On Sloopy" is great, wait until you hear a new stereo re-mix made from the original four backing tracks and two vocal tracks.It will absolutley blow you away.I can assure you that these first generation session tapes have never been used before for any mix.I can't give the rest of the details yet but it should show up on a legitimate CD release sometime in the first half of 2000.The person who did the re-mix did an incredible job of creating a new stereo mix that not only is faithful to the original mono single but also allows you to hear the real power and punch of the song in stereo, too. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-26 22:17:28 Comments: Curtis Mayfield, dead at 57. The world has suffered a terrible loss! Read more at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991226/aponline163936_000.htm His music will be missed. beetle |
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Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 1999-12-27 04:46:26 Comments: Santa was very good to me. In the bottom of my stocking was a crisp, clean one hundred dollar bill, with a note saying I should buy some CDs that I would enjoy. OK, now who in his right mind would ignore a request from Santa, seeing as how (s)he fulfills so many requests that go his (her) way! Just so happens there was a record show (convention, exchange) at the local firehouse the day after Christmas. Usually this is a monthly affair held on Saturday. I am never able to attend one of these because I am always working Saturday, with never an exception. So, let the shopping begin. Got there about two thirty in the afternoon (rather late seeing as it starts about nine a.m.) Immediately I am in line paying $5.00 entrance fee; that's cool because they stamp my hand so I can enter or exit at will. I am struck by the large amount of tables in the first room, which I walk right through without looking at anything (thinking I'll hit it on the way out.) I cannot get past the second room however, without sneaking a peek at some tables. First item to catch my eye: Johnny Preston on Collectables sealed, but with a hole in the upper right corner. Ten bucks. OK, yes, because I want Charming Billy, Feel So Fine and Cradle of Love. Quickest sale that man made today! I cannot get out of this room! Help, there are five tables all in a row screaming 7.99 or three for 20.00. I start at the first table on the far right and work my way across. What? Hank Ballard and the Midnighters Sexy Ways CD on Rhino? Hmmmm. Custom Made by King Records for Rhino Records Inc. Hmmmmm. Yes! Why, well for one thing, Let's Go, Let's Go, Let's go is on there, along with Work With Me Annie, Finger Poppin Time, the Original Twist, and The Continental Walk. How can I say no? On the second table there is a still sealed copy on Flair of Richard Berry, Get Out of the Car. Honestly, never heard anything on here, but isn't this the guy who wrote Louie, Louie? Titles like Rockin' Man and Baby Darlin' by Richard Berry and the Dreamers along with a picture vintage 1955 of the artist, and an illustration of a pink Cadillac, sway me. OK, need one more to reduce the price to $6.65 from $7.99. Lots of good stuff, but nothing that grabs me big time, until, wella, wella, wella, Lobo! On Rhino, only ten songs, but at least five of them charted. I would buy it alone for I'd Love You to Want me, but throw in Me and You and a Dog Named Boo, Don't Expect Me to Be Your Friend, and more, and I'm hooked. And I know this one will be in stereo and great sound! Twenty more dollars fly away. I enter the third room, lots of bootlegs of all the rock concerts with videos, etc. Pass them right by, until here is a lonely table in the corner with just a couple of boxes. This guy is obviously not a real dealer, just someone trying to pick up some extra bread. I spy Jack Scott on Carlton for $15.00 Thirty songs, hmmm, sounds good, but I have almost all these already. No, not for $15.00! What's this Los Bravos, All The Best. No price sticker. I ask, he says any without stickers are eight dollars. Now we're talkin' Yes! Black is Black and Bring a Little Lovin' with 28 others I never heard. No Label. I hold on to this while he asks me to listen to The Collins Kids on his headphones. I listen, and it's good, but no recognizable hits on the CD, I thank him, and pick up a Kink's Greatest Hits on Rhino, all mono. Yes, but it has A Well Respected Man, I Need You, and Sunny Afternoon. I have some Kinks, but I can use this. Eight bucks, yes. As I am paying him the sixteen dollars, I say, would you make it three for twenty? He looks at me strangely, and I say quickly, Here's another two bucks, that makes twenty two dollars instead of twenty four, how about it? He says ok, and I spy a copy of The Best of the BoxTops from the BMG Record Club Arista label. Not only is The Letter and Neon Rainbow on it, but one of my favorite most obscure tunes of all time, Sweet Cream Ladies Forward March, and I Met Her in Church! Wait, there's more, Soul Deep, and Cry Like a Baby! Yes, yes. He takes my two additional dollars, keeps the four change and we have a deal. I make my way out to the lobby (first room that I skipped) and spy a table with lots of 45s, and a few CD's which are all Collectors CDs at Collectors prices. Wait, can't resist this. Rockin' Doo Wop 1954 to 1964 on Sequel. Sequel is getting to be very hard to find, so I look at the listings. Nicky and the Nobles, School Bells, The Neons, Angel Face, DownBeats China Doll. Who can resist this, even at full pop $20! I buy it, and make a senior citizen and his wife very happy. Let's see now, $10, $20,$22, $20 and $5 to get in. $77 total for eight really great CD's. With the seven teen dollars left from my Santa money, I am going to order one of the latest Hard to Find CD's released by Eric! Hope you all have a Happy New Year, and are as successful as I have been in spending whatever Santa gave you to buy CD's with! Sorry if this post is too long... |
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Name: G.
Cassan From: Mississauga, Ontario Time: 1999-12-27 11:32:51 Comments: RE: Rolling Stones Japanese CD's Sorry David, you've waited too long to go chasing these since they went out-of-print in late 1997 when ABKCO took over worldwide distribution, eliminating the LONDON issues. Having obtained several of the Japanese CD's in 1996/97, I too was disappointed to learn that these could no longer be purchased. |
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Name: Willie From: San Francisco Area Time: 1999-12-27 11:51:33 Comments: To Jay Connors: Loved your post. Shopping for Cds in used cd stores and shows is my favorite past time. I showed your post to my wife and she just groaned and walked away. She's stood by too many times while I was lost in rapture, plowing through stacks of used cds. Anyway, I got a good chuckle from your shopping trip. |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-27 12:02:33 Comments: That's just it, Beetlfan. His music won't be missed. The great music of Curtis Mayfield will never die. In a way, Mayfield will live on, long after his death, due to the music. In a way, sadly, he died in 1990, after that tragic accident. May he rest in peace. What a talent! |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-27 14:42:15 Comments: Correct John, that distinction must be made. Weather it was due to the freak accident, or him trying to later woo the younger generation, his post eighties stuff will be forgotten. His legendary period lasted from about 1959 to 1974. I will never forget such classics as "Pusherman", Gypsy Woman", "People Get Ready", "We're A Winner", "Choice Of Colors", "Something He Can Feel", among tons of others and those he produced, like "The Monkey Time" by Major Lance. |
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Name: Chuck
Iverson From: Sunnyvale, Ca. Time: 1999-12-27 16:46:47 Comments: Holiday Greetings, hey Mike where's my Christmas card,quarterly type? Has anyone looked at the new Collectables two Millenium discs? Anything to die for? Curtis will always be remembered for the backing vocal on "For your precious Love", truly a classic, especially in VJ Stereo. |
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Name: Charles
Ellis From: Staten Island, NY Time: 1999-12-27 23:11:18 Comments: GREAT NEWS!!!!! Rhino Handmade has several thousand copies left of the out-of-print Vee-Jay CD box set!!!!. GO NOW to "rhino.com" and visit the Handmade area. The box set still sells at its original $39.98 SRP, and w/s&h, it comes to about $50.00. I don't know about you, but I'm pleased as can be that I got a second chance to get this box set, and I thought I'd pass it along to others who thought they'd never get a chance to get it too!!!! Good luck! |
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Name: Randy
Price Website: From: New York Time: 1999-12-27 23:44:02 Comments: I recently picked up the two volumes of the remastered Nipper's Greatest Hits - The 60s. There is a noticeable improvement in sound quality from the original late-'80s issues of these discs, especially on the earlier tracks. However, on Volume 2, "We'll Sing In The Sunshine" by Gale Garnett is a different take than the one that was on the original release. Both versions are stereo; I believe the earlier one is the hit version -- it's the same recording that appears on Time Life's AM Gold 1964 (a/k/a Super Hits 1964) -- but I don't have the original 45 to confirm. |
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Name: Bob
Olivia From: Burbank, Ca. Time: 1999-12-28 02:55:15 Comments: A while back I asked for help on locating El Watusi by Ray Baretto in stereo on CD. Forgot who e-mailed me saying it was on the Rhino series instrumentals. I ordered it from Disc Collector, got it today and guess what it's mono. Got the wrong info again, at least I have it. Bob Olivia. |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: Baja California Norte Time: 1999-12-28 19:42:11 Comments: Hey, Bob - O, as I said here, maybe a month ago, I got my stereo (2:38,F, slight hiss) Tico original hit version of "El Watusi" (so I can avoid wearing the grooves offa my all - stereo Ray Barretto Tico LP) on a "budget" collection on the Laserlight label. There are other CDs you may find the stereo "El Watusi" on, like "Carlito's Way" O.S.T., and a couple of import$, but the inexpensive-enough-that-you-won't-worry-too-much-if-your-chica-sits-on-and-breaks-it-as-you-go-low-rid ing Laserlight CD also gives you some other gems to cruise the barrio with, like the stereo "Bang Bang" by Joe Cuba Sextet (with the false ending). Oh, yeah, the CD on Laserlight (# 12 913) is "Latin Soul Boogaloo". Looks like I'll need to supplement my latino musica stacks with the upgraded Faro/Gordo/Linda, etc. gems that folks here say have been carefully re-tweezed & de-gunked & sound better than ever on Varese Vintage collections. Beware of a similar CD collection on "Bacchus Archives" label that has same stuff - - some gringo's gotten pretty over-zealous with the NR button. As long as I'm here, & talkin' greasy '50s-'60s tunes, I was wondering if anyone has the "DOO WOP DINER" CD ("CD-rom" ?.. It must be, in order to contain the "over 1,000 songs" ... plus, it says "REAL AUDIO"...) listed in the "newer reviews" at "What Was Then Still Is" (see: http://www.nb.net/~glarkin/dinercd.htm ) ? The "get more info" "link" to "djrus.com" at the bottom of the "review" page there doesn't work. If anyone out there has it, I'd sure like to know more about it.... songs, sound quality, etc. It probably wouldn't approach the sound quality of a regular CD... I'm no computer scientist - what exactly goes on when songs are put into "Real Audio" as far as quality is concerned ? (still dumbfounded by "1,000 songs"..!!??)... Any info. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ! Happy Y-tew-kay. |
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Name: Don
Duffey From: Buffalo Time: 1999-12-28 22:28:33 Comments: Y2K-alert!!!WARNING!WARNING!WARNING!Will Robinson...On Dec.31 at the stroke of midnight ,1999 all stereo systems will stop functioning in stereo mode and revert back to mid 20th century,primitive,grungy,mono sound.Fidelity will be reduced to that of a 2 transister japanese radio(with leatherette case),while dynamic range will be equal to a short wave radio with no antenna!!!.........NOT!!(scary thought though isn't it)..Happy Holidays!!!Don |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-28 23:38:46 Comments: Does anyone know where I might find the stereo version of Mary Wells' version of "Dear Lover"? I have it on vinyl in stereo, but have never found it on cd. Also, any cd copies containing Mel Carter's version of "When a Man Falls In Love", and "Don't Go To Strangers" by Etta Jones? I thought someone was mastering the B.B.King Kent recordings in stereo. Shoot, I would settle for mono versions, at this point. The man had no less than 18 R&B charters on the Kent label. Sounds like the perfect choice for a compilation, don't you agree? Eighteen charters, plus maybe a couple of album (or b-side) tracks. Are you paying attention, Varese, Collectables, or even Rhino? Someone!? Come on! B.B. King; for crying out loud! |
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Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 1999-12-29 01:14:06 Comments: Ready to cross the picket line, Mr. Preston? The original Derby recording of Mel Carter singing "When a Boy Falls in Love" is found in all its true mono glory on ABKCO's "The SAR Records Story" collection. Sam Cooke was the "S" in SAR. And I'm sure you already knew that Cooke's original(?) recording was previously reissued on RCA's now-deleted "The Man & His Music" CD. |
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Name: Larry
Naramore Website: From: Sun Valley, Ca. Time: 1999-12-29 01:17:50 Comments: John. When A Boy Falls In Love by Mel Carter is on Sam Cooke's SAR Records Story - Abkco 2231-2. I think it's mono. Pretty sure that Mike reviewed it. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-29 09:26:52 Comments: So what's the deal in 2000 for reissues? My guess is that Rhino and Motown will begin putting stickers on their jewel cases containing 70s and 80s material that read, "Electronically Enhanced to Simulate Mono!" |
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Name: Website: Time: 1999-12-29 11:35:31 Comments: |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-29 13:01:57 Comments: Tom, you have cracked me up with your comment about Rhino and Motown "Electronically Enhanced to Simulate Mono" stickers on their CD's. LOL. Good one. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-29 15:07:08 Comments: HEY!, don't be raggin' on my Motown mono!!! I'm very sensitive about that man! That wasn't funny! :-) Glad you're back, Tom! Can anyone tell me how the sound of the RCA/BMG Nipper's Greatist Hits CD's stack up to the 80's versions? |
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Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 1999-12-29 21:07:26 Comments: I just bought an import of Mitty Collier,s lp "Shades Of a Genius". It is a major disappointment! The original lp , plus bonus tracks equal 22 tracks, but only a handful are stereo. We get mono "I Had A Talk With My Man" (and it's about 15 seconds shorter than the single), stereo "No Faith, No Love" (but it's about 30 seconds longer than the single version!), and no sign of her Top 10 R&B hit, "Sharing You". The overall sound is pretty good; quiet, etc., and the stereo tracks are breathtaking. If only they had done a little research and included the stereo single versions! I'm still looking for "Sharing You". |
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Name: Marty
Blaise From: Houston, Texas Time: 1999-12-29 23:28:07 Comments: Came across something interesting in the Book of One Hit Wonders by Wayne Jancik. It says that the song Wild Thing by Senator Bobby used a demo track of the Troggs Wild Thing with ONLY guitar and instrumental parts. Could it be that both versions of Wild Thing exist in real, true stereo somewhere? Maybe we'll see them in 2000! Happy listening all. |
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Name: A. Sherman Time: 1999-12-30 02:03:54 Comments: To Don D: re: 2 transister japanese radio (with leatherette case): You forgot to mention regarding leatherette case: with holes in it so you can listen right through the case!!! |
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Name: Boppin'
Brian From: Sunny Salsa Siesta Serape SoCal Time: 1999-12-30 17:13:24 Comments: Hi boys (& girls ?!?! - - - a good point brought up by a recent posting... where are alla the GALS ? It would be interesting to see Mike's mailing list &/or have him tell about what the breakdown is Male vs. Female...enough boring demographics... on to my question ! ) ACE (U.K.) has their Dec. '99 new releases posted at their site - - http://www.acerecords.co.uk/ - - (finally !), & I was wondering if anyone can give us any "tips" about stereo content. Especially interested in perhaps adding new CD, The Best Of Rosie & The Originals to the cruisin' repetoire. What I was wondering, is if the Brunswick stuff (Rosie's/ the group's LP + + ) is stereo. (My copy of "Lonely Blue Nights" is mono...) Yes, Allan, your Japanese transistor radio's holder/case did have "tiny-holes-so-you-can-listen-to-it-when-the-cover's-ST-I-ILL-on" ...it was a genuine artificial leaterette case, wasn't it ? Still have the Allan Sherman Rhino CD compilation, one of their earliest CD releases, just after the Turtles "20 Greatest" (their first), before they MONO-ized ....All the Allan Sherman hits are stupendous S - T - E - R - E - O Interesting that the "Nippers" have been re-issued.. wonder if they are full length or abridged, like alot of "re-reissues" that have been out lately, with fewer tracks & even omitting liner notes (Do they have to pay out royalties to writers, as well !?!?!) We all seem to know the status/ release schedule of reissue series from Eric, Varese, etc., but how about some more along the lines of Bob Hyde's "Lost Hits" (Capitol), Columbia's "Rock Artifacts" & other similar sets ?? Does anyone have "E-Mail" #s for folks "in charge" in reissue depts. at "majors" ? ? ? Hope 2000 brings us more in these & other similar "series", plus maybe even some new, fresh concepts. (Yeah, no more "Wild Thing"s, unless, of course, a stereo version turns up !! As Reg Presley would say "OH NOOOOOOO !") "From Home", Brian |
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Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 1999-12-30 18:12:22 Comments: Boppin' B -- Funny you should mention the Ace Rosie & the Originals. I recently got this comment on it from a west coast friend who just bought it (yes, I actually DO have a friend): "There’s a 1969 picture of Rosie Hamlin in the liner notes booklet of the new Ace Records The Best of Rosie & the Originals. I was surprised to see how normal and sensible she appears at that time, the antithesis of the pseudo-counterculture hipsters I knew so well. This is, in my opinion, a must-have oldies album. I’ve always considered "Angel Baby" to be the Oldies National Anthem, a good selection of other 1960-62 songs are included with the best audio quality you could reasonably hope for, and the booklet is great. The 1999 remakes feature bland arrangements and uninspiring musicianship, but Rosie’s voice is still good, and the spirit is still there. " Hope this helps. See Y'all next year. |
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Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 1999-12-30 19:44:34 Comments: Regarding the newly-mastered NIPPER CD's (The 60's-Volumes One & Two)... these were only remastered because BMG had to remove the two Sam Cooke tracks over a legal issue with guess who (not the Canadian group...but the abkguy.) As replacements, volume one contains "Love Letters" by Ketty Lester (a bit of a "cheat" since this record was originally on Era.) Though the Nipperfolk now own the master since it came with her artist deal, it really doesn't belong on this package. But it's a great song, so one mustn't complain! The song added to volume two is "Return To Sender" by Elvis. The two "de-cooked" songs are "Chain Gang" and "Twistin' The Night Away". The CD liner notes are word for word from the originals though the graphics have been freshened up some, as have the inlay cards and the CD labels. New remastering shows slight improvement but mainly, I believe, because of better A/D converters at BMG rather than any better sources that have become available since Ron Furmanek supervised the original mastering in 1988. But if you like to hear the changes in pop music from the 40's through the 70's, albeit from just one record company's output, this is a great series to own. |
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Name: Vic From: PA Time: 1999-12-30 19:57:55 Comments: Just a follow-up on a much earlier thread regarding Bertha Tillman's "Oh My Angel." This track is also available in mono on "Pittsburgh's Greatest Oldies: For Lovers Only," Itzy 5001. Itzy has a website: www.icubed.com with ordering information. Now a belated question: does anyone know anything about a Christmas instrumental called "The Carillon?" Any information, here or via my e-mail, would be much appreciated. This track got played a lot on KDKA radio in Pittsburgh in the '60s and early '70s but hasn't been heard anywhere for 20 years. |
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Name: beetlefan Time: 1999-12-30 20:00:30 Comments: Right, Marty W., and another set worthy of our dollars is the Sony Music 100 years box or double sets. Along with the liner notes, the package takes you through a journey through the history of American music in this decade. The series was co-produced by Al Quagleri, so the sound is top notch with lots of stereo when appropiately available. They used the best tapes possible, as far as I'm concerned. Brian, I guess we'll never know the real answer to the demographics question, but i'll guess that women are just not culturalized the same way men are. Happy new ywer to all, and see you next year! beetle BTW, Thank God George Harrison and his wife are going to be O.K.. |
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Name: Martin T. Boratyn From: California Time: 1999-12-30 21:26:00 Comments: I need help from my fellow BSN readers. Where on CD can I find the "original" 'White Christmas' as performed by Bing Crosby and Marjorie Reynolds in the movie "Holiday Inn". I saw a video clip of the song on an American West airplane while on a business trip over the holidays and am even thinking of calling the airline just to find the source. I would rather not have to record it off my copy of the movie. All I find in the stores is the circa 1947 re-recording which has become the most popular version. PLEASE, I need your assistance. Happy New Year to everyone! |
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Name: Chuck From: S F bay area Time: 1999-12-30 21:28:42 Comments: Happy new Year, Just received my Hard to Find vol. 4. Liked the stereo first evers, but the highlight had to be Thomas Wayne's "Tradgedy", finally grundge free and clear, great job Tom! Lonely Boy was also fantastic, assumed it was from disc. Ran off the other end, Did anyone look at Collectables Millennium hits vol. 1 & 2? cheers****** |
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Name: Mike
Cloud Website: From: Houston, TX Time: 1999-12-30 21:35:42 Comments: The Holiday Inn soundtrack was available on CD a few years ago. I haven't seen it recently but CD Now or another online store may have it. |
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Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 1999-12-30 21:40:07 Comments: Re: White Christmas. According to a post from Tom Daly in the chat archives and on the SDARS website, you can also find the 1942 recording of White Christmas on the Bing Crosby boxed set on MCA which remains in print. The Billboard 1935-1954 Christmas compilation has the popular re-recording albeit the labeling of 1942 in parentheses on the CD. |
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Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 1999-12-31 07:37:24 Comments: To Martin T. Boratyn: The Holiday Inn soundtrack recording of "White Christmas" has not been issued on CD. In 1942, it was not the policy of Hollywood studios to license their soundtracks for issue on 78rpm discs, hence Bing Crosby's popular Decca studio recording. The MCA CD does not contain soundtrack recordings, but Decca studio recordings, including the common 1947 rerecording of "White Christmas." If you search, you can find a vinyl issue of the soundtrack recording (probably a bootleg) on Soundtrak STK-112, which was issued by Sunbeam Records, Inc., 13821 Calvert Street, Van Nuys, CA 91401. Incidentally, Marjorie Reynolds' singing voice was dubbed in the film. Paramount made the picture, but it's now controlled by Universal. |
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